Why I think Miller will be traded and why Canuck fans will be somewhat disappointed with the return.

[N4ZZY]

16 hours ago, nameci said:

I think JR knows something for certain that most Canuck fans can only speculate on.  I don’t think that Vancouver will be JT Miller’s first choice when it comes time to sign his next contract.  My opinion is that he will probably prefer to sign with an American team.  So what do we do with JT in the meantime.  A number of Canuck fans feel that we are close to being a playoff team this year, so we will need all of the intangibles that JT brings to the team.  Next year, let’s assume that we will again be in the playoff hunt and our chances would be much improved with JT on the team, so we keep him.  When all is said and done, JT walks and doesn’t resign.  Now we are in the same position as we were when Tanev, Markstrom, Stetcher and Toffoli left for cap reasons and WE GOT NOTHING IN RETURN WHEN THEY LEFT.  So I think JR will choose to sell high and get the max return for JT while he is still in his prime and we still have some leverage.

i really doubt that Schneider, Carlo or Boldy are coming our way.  I get the sense that other teams are unwilling to part with prime young assets for JT’s services.  While Canuck fans are thinking Schneider, Chytl and a first is a fair return, I think the Rangers will be unwilling to part with Schneider or even Lundquist in a trade.
I think we will harvest a good supply of picks and prospects which will fill two of JR’s requirements, create cap space and restock our prospect pool.  This definitely means that no big contracts will be coming back in trade.

One fan’s opinion.

First of all. I think management might get the sense that JT isn’t going to resign, which is fine, but that means he’s going to be traded this season. What we cannot allow to happen is what has happened far too often under Benning’s inept management - letting his assets leave at the end of the season when they’re UFA’s, and gaining zero assets in return for those players. He’s done is so many times, it’s set this team back in more than one way. 

 

If we’re not getting Schneider, Chytil and a 1st for JT Miller, than what are we getting from the Rangers? 

 

JT’s a good player. Teams have to give to get. Other GM’s know this. So let’s say the Rangers are still interested in JT’s services. If they’re not willing to send Schneider or Lundqvist over, then who exactly are they going to be sending over for a point per game player, who can play in all situations? We’re not getting their junk - and if it’s just for picks and prospects, then they’ll have to take back a bad contract, because that’s not fair value. Take OEL and then &^@# you. 

 

And if we’re only getting cap space and prospects coming back, what kind of message does that signal to the rest of the team? How does this make the team better for next season to compete? 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

16 hours ago, nux_win said:

I admit that I don't know the finer points of the business side of things but I can't understand why we would trade away our highest scoring forward and our most intense player all around just in case he becomes too expensive.  I mean other teams manage to keep and pay their superstars, why can't we keep good players here?  It's not like he's going to earn top ten dollars in the league even in a worst case scenario.  I think we need to focus more on winning games in the here and now rather than rearranging deck chairs.  We need some stability not constant player turnover.  Why should we be a doormat just to help anointed "contenders"?  GCG!

You’re assuming that JT wants to be here. Let’s say he doesn’t, and prefers to play somewhere in the States. Then you miss maximizing what you could’ve gotten for him. That’s worse, in my books. 

 

All indications seem to be that he doesn’t intend to sign here long term. That’s fine. His choice. But management then has to do what’s best for the team, and that’s trading Miller for the most you can get in a return package. 

 

[N4ZZY]

16 hours ago, grumpyone said:

my opinion: hang onto JT Miller unless some team is willing to give up 2  1sts or the equivalent + a decent player.

hang onto him till the summer then find out what dollars he's looking for in a re-up contract. If it's in the 8 mill range then let him know that it's too much and we'll be looking at moving him sometime in the season.

If he's got a reasonable request, dollar wise, in the area of 6-6.5 for 3 years then re-up him.

By the summer you'll have an idea as to what Boeser's camp is looking for, unless you unload him this year.

Then you can manage your budget accordingly. 

Then again if the GM team wants to lower our internal cap by say 10 mill. they'll have to get rid of at least 3 decent players getting ELC's or draft picks back. 

Can you explain to me why Miller would resign for short term, and less dollars for what would be his final contract? 

 

[N4ZZY]

15 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Impossible to tell, but with the season he is having this year. There is a lot more room to go down then to go up. I also worry if he has another great year and we are in the last wildcard spot next year, will they even trade him or would they let him walk for a chance to make playoffs. 

Smart decision with so much uncertainty with Miller, and the chance at the playoffs just don’t look great with the teams above us winning at the pace that they are. Smart money says that Miller is traded. Management needs to have an eye on the future, because this season is a wash. 

[N4ZZY]

15 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Listening to this guy from Daily Faceoff on Halford and Brough, and he thinks the Rangers may not want to part with Schneider or Lundqvist from their D for Miller, but suggested the Canucks might want to consider Zac Jones, a young, small LD. 

 

Who?  WTF?  Why would they settle for him?  Screw that

 

to NYR - Miller and Schenn

to VAN - Kakko, Schneider, 1st

 

If the Rangers want Miller and a Cup, it's going to cost them 

Who the &^@# is Zac Jones? And why would we want a small LHD? 

 

You gotta give to get. Rangers don’t want to pay up, maybe someone else in the East will. have fun facing JT Miller, instead of having him on your team. 

 

[N4ZZY]

14 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

Garland is not going to be traded for picks and prospects. If he is traded, he will be traded for players like Carlo as an example. Garland is locked in a cheap contract for a long time and he is young with lots of potential. He needs to have a big return if traded, otherwise we keep him, simple as that. I think clearing 5 million can be done easily by getting rid of pearson and Hamonic instead of getting rid of a young player like Garland.

Hamonic and Pearson I can see a contender wanting to get for defensive depth. But that won’t be as much of a price to pay to acquire those guys. A pick should get it done. 

 

[N4ZZY]

12 hours ago, Provost said:

We have several assets out there in the trade talks, and those are teams reportedly interested... there could be trades similar with the main pieces below:

Boeser for Carlo

JT Miller for Lafreniere and K'Andre Miller

Garland+ for Severson and Zacha

We downgrade in the short term at forward but also get massively better on defence.

Zacha?? Severson doesn’t exactly make us younger as JR was alluding a few weeks ago. And he also needs a new contract, while Garland is locked in for the next four years at 4.95M. 

 

I don’t like that suggested trade. We need someone younger, not older. Someone who isn’t 27, and wanting very likely a pretty large deal. 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by N4ZZY

[N4ZZY]

12 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

See, that's kind of an oxymoron.  No way JR will trade Miller away for a disappointing return.  Especially if you are talking this years TDL. The return would be good, its more a matter of IF its the right thing to do.  From reading your OP it sounds like the only reasons you give for your pessimism about the return is a feeling you have.  JR knows he has another year left to find the most lucrative deal, he's not rushed to make a deal now, or ever.

The only way it would be disappointing might be if he does wait until next season's TDL, and is planning on it and, Canuck Luck, Miller drops off drastically in play, or gets some kind of devastating injury. Knock on wood. And he ends up just leaving that next Summer for nothing,

In some sense, JR is under a timeline to move Miller. He doesn’t have forever. To maximize whatever JT deal, it’s probably for this season, before the trade deadline, or at the deadline in March. He waits until next season, and there will be increasing pressure to deal. If he waits until next season’s deadline, teams are going to know that they don’t have to trade for him either. They can wait until he hits free agency and see if they can’t sign him for free. 

 

 

[filthycanuck]

16 hours ago, nameci said:

Fan in Mexico and VegasCanuck:  I am stuck in bed with terminal pancreatic cancer so my entertainment options are few.  I thought I had something to add to the forum so Iposted.  You both chose to take issue with my post which is certainly your right.  I was posting my informed opinion which you neither needed to read or respond to.  I don’t think your posts added anything to the conversation.  Perhaps you, like me, have too much time on your hands.  I am also a fan in Mexico.

You do have something to add to this forum. Who really gives a rats a$$ what other CDCers think of your opinion? You said your piece, it started a talking point, its what this forum is for right? Frankly it sounds like you got more stuff going on other than what the Canucks are doing, so hope you get well soon. Dont ever let some piece of trash like VegasCanuck, WeneedLumme or Dazzle, I dunno who else to name thats the scum of CDC, who tend to attack people personally when opinions don't match theirs (and the fact they are massive Benning fanboys)

 

As for your topic, it will all depend on JTs demand come deadline. I've posted before, the Canucks can easily hold off till the off season to trade Miller. Teams will be able to manage their cap to fit his contract, so I don't think that extra playoff run makes a difference in his value. His numbers speak for themselves, point a game player that plays top line C, we will get a kings ransom whether its from the Rangers or someone else

[filthycanuck]

12 hours ago, Provost said:

We have several assets out there in the trade talks, and those are teams reportedly interested... there could be trades similar with the main pieces below:

Boeser for Carlo

JT Miller for Lafreniere and K'Andre Miller

Garland+ for Severson and Zacha

We downgrade in the short term at forward but also get massively better on defence.

Geezus if we land Lafrenier and K'andre miller, to hell with the 1st round pick

 

Can we really get Severson and Zacha? Maybe 1 but not both. I can see Severson maybe 1 for 1, more like a lateral move

[filthycanuck]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Yeah, this is all part of the trade negotiation dance. Of course the Rangers don't WANT to trade Schneider, but either you pay up, or one of your competitors likely will.

Exactly. Miller has a lot of leverage in his contract and his value. If Rangers think they are a JT Miller away from winning a cup, they better be ponying up some top end assets because, like you mentioned, if they wont do it, somebody else will. Miller would wreck havoc in the east.

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, JayDangles said:

Disagree. The fans dont need to trade Miller, the players dont need to trade Miller, but the Canucks DO need to trade Miller. These are the tough moves that our front office havent made in the last 12 years which has kept us mediocre. The Canucks need to trade Miller and improve this team for the long haul

Canucks need to make some moves to improve the team both now and in the future ideally.    Miller is absolutely the best return - and is also our best player.   Sure would be nice to have Pat Quin whispering in Allvin's ear right now as well.   He made some great trades with some very good assets we had when he arrived ... Adams  McLean and a second , Ronning, Courtnall, Momesso, Lumme ... Sundrstrom, Butcher and a second ... Loved Butcher ... but well i sure loved Ronning, Courtnall and Momesso too. 

 

Adams ... Well Gus was awesome too.   We can't be too scared about trading any player.   

[mll]

So many Miller threads - so posting the same info also here.   From Friedman's 32 Thoughts:

 

1. My sense is that part of Vancouver’s thought process includes the possibility of re-signing JT Miller, not trading him. I’m not saying that’s the likely outcome, but, at the very least, they’ve investigated the idea and what it would take. That’s one reason other names — like Conor Garland’s — are out there. President of Hockey Operations Jim Rutherford wants to create room, and will explore almost all options to do it. I do think at least one team’s made a run at Miller (my guess is the Rangers), but obviously not to the point where the Canucks said yes.

 

---

Another Sportsnet article has MacIntyre saying this on Miller:

 

"I don't think they're in any hurry to trade JT Miller at all," Sportsnet's Iain MacIntyre said on Monday night's post-game show. "There's a lot of teams interested in him, and if they get an offer that's too good to pass up, then they'll probably trade JT Miller this spring. But I'm not sure they're going to get that offer. With him in particular, I would still probably be more surprised, not shocked, but more surprised than not if they trade him this season. I think that's a deal they could do in the summer, at the start of next season or even during next season."

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by mll

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, filthycanuck said:

You do have something to add to this forum. Who really gives a rats a$$ what other CDCers think of your opinion? You said your piece, it started a talking point, its what this forum is for right? Frankly it sounds like you got more stuff going on other than what the Canucks are doing, so hope you get well soon. Dont ever let some piece of trash like VegasCanuck, WeneedLumme or Dazzle, I dunno who else to name thats the scum of CDC, who tend to attack people personally when opinions don't match theirs (and the fact they are massive Benning fanboys)

 

As for your topic, it will all depend on JTs demand come deadline. I've posted before, the Canucks can easily hold off till the off season to trade Miller. Teams will be able to manage their cap to fit his contract, so I don't think that extra playoff run makes a difference in his value. His numbers speak for themselves, point a game player that plays top line C, we will get a kings ransom whether its from the Rangers or someone else

I do think an extra run is valuable.   And worth a first rounder.   Next TDL Miller will still be valuable but mostly as a rental - Canucks would add a conditional pick if they re-sign him i suppose but it won't be another first.   

 

Also very aware there isn't much difference at all in the quality of player from 23-50th overall.   Late firsts aren't usually great picks.   Two late firsts law of averages you get one NHL player ... so do like the idea of pouching guys already drafted that look like the real deal.   TO athletic proposal was Kerfoot (would be our 3C for this season and next) plus their two best prospects - 15th overall from Kap's trade and a second round guy ... all forwards so don't like it - but it's an example to consider. ) 

 

We could also try and trade Brock Boeser.   But think we are stuck with him.   And that if his idiot agent doesn't play ball we will take him to arbitration and likely end up with a two year deal close to what he's getting now.   That's better then whatever trade we might get for him.   We'd still be able to offer him a legacy deal later and or just let his cap go and another team deal with him (or trade him too).    In other words Brock Boeser trade now isn't going to fix anything or help our future much.   Might as well keep him.   That said it's hockey and you just never know ...

[mll]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I do think an extra run is valuable.   And worth a first rounder.   Next TDL Miller will still be valuable but mostly as a rental - Canucks would add a conditional pick if they re-sign him i suppose but it won't be another first.   

 

Also very aware there isn't much difference at all in the quality of player from 23-50th overall.   Late firsts aren't usually great picks.   Two late firsts law of averages you get one NHL player ... so do like the idea of pouching guys already drafted that look like the real deal.   TO athletic proposal was Kerfoot (would be our 3C for this season and next) plus their two best prospects - 15th overall from Kap's trade and a second round guy ... all forwards so don't like it - but it's an example to consider. ) 

 

We could also try and trade Brock Boeser.   But think we are stuck with him.   And that if his idiot agent doesn't play ball we will take him to arbitration and likely end up with a two year deal close to what he's getting now.   That's better then whatever trade we might get for him.   We'd still be able to offer him a legacy deal later and or just let his cap go and another team deal with him (or trade him too).    In other words Brock Boeser trade now isn't going to fix anything or help our future much.   Might as well keep him.   That said it's hockey and you just never know ...

Conditional picks upon re-signing are no longer permitted.  

 

The arbitration award cannot be less than 85% of Boeser's last salary - 6.375M.  He gets to decide whether he wants a 1 or 2 year award.  There is a deadline to take a player to arbitration. 

 

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Conditional picks upon re-signing are no longer permitted.  

 

The arbitration award cannot be less than 85% of Boeser's last salary - 6.375M.  He gets to decide whether he wants a 1 or 2 year award.  There is a deadline to take a player to arbitration. 

 

Thanks mll, didn't know that about conditional picks (and have read the CBA - but don't remember all the details) .  So 6.375 for one year is probably what we should expect for next season.   Can  he also sign a long term deal, and just get paid his QO the first year?    Say a 6 x 6 deal .... and first year get his "bonus" money ... Brock hasn't earned his deal.   Has he. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by IBatch

[JayDangles]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Canucks need to make some moves to improve the team both now and in the future ideally.    Miller is absolutely the best return - and is also our best player.   Sure would be nice to have Pat Quin whispering in Allvin's ear right now as well.   He made some great trades with some very good assets we had when he arrived ... Adams  McLean and a second , Ronning, Courtnall, Momesso, Lumme ... Sundrstrom, Butcher and a second ... Loved Butcher ... but well i sure loved Ronning, Courtnall and Momesso too. 

 

Adams ... Well Gus was awesome too.   We can't be too scared about trading any player.   

Exactly. Maybe it's a generational things that new fans can't deal with loss. They need to hold onto everything. In reality good players get traded every year. Just not by the Canucks. 

Miller is not a leader. I believe he is a sheep in wolf's clothing. He is a very strong player when he wants to be, but he is very lazing at times and he costs the team. If another team is willing to overpay you take that and keep moving.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Hamonic and Pearson I can see a contender wanting to get for defensive depth. But that won’t be as much of a price to pay to acquire those guys. A pick should get it done. 

 

More so Hamonic because of his expiring deal.  Doubt any real contenders would have any interest in Pearson for that same reason.

[grumpyone]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Can you explain to me why Miller would resign for short term, and less dollars for what would be his final contract? 

 

if he felt that the team was headed in the right direction and wanted a chance to win. without a no trade clause he could get traded to buffalo or arizona

[BPA]

What did Eichel get in that trade?

The return for Buffalo is Peyton Krebs, Alex Tuch, a future first-round draft pick and a future second-rounder. 

 

 

I’m not saying Miller is going to get that much but certainly not for scrubs.  
 

 

Kerbs = top prospect. Tuch = young middle 6 player.