Elias Pettersson Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The stat when Miller does not record a point for this team is something like 2-23-4. When Demko doesn't start I believe this team has only won 3 games. You do not build around near 30 year old players with $9+ million contracts when it is evident you have so much more glaring issues throughout the entire line up. Take away either one of Miller or Demko and this team is drafting top 5 period. Benn and Seguin signed their contracts in 2016 and 2018 respectively at that time aged 26. Both were coming off multiple 70+-80+ point seasons and have both since seen their point totals decline to roughly 60 or less point per season averages over the last 2.5 seasons. We can not sign a player at almost 30 to a $9+ million deal knowing without question that production will wane and we will have to be replacing some seriously important spots via free agency at market value as we do not have those replacement players in the pipeline at those positions. That's just a terrible way to manage the cap and the team itself. The awful part is, the troll in me hopes Miller gets that fair market value contract at term from the Canucks and the inevitable happens just for the pure value of trolling the people who were so adamant about retaining him. I don't know when I became this person but for giggles it would be amusing to see. Those stats alone tell you who are our two MVP's of the team. The two untouchables really. As Miller and Demko go so do the Canucks. We can win without Petey or Huggy in the lineup. We can't do it without Demko or Miller. Hey, if the return is ridiculous I am not opposed to trading Miller. If Edmonton offered us Draisaitl for Demko I'd probably pull the trigger on that one too. No player is untouchable. If Gretzky can be traded at age 28 then any player can be traded. But these Miller proposals I am seeing do not do it for me and they will not help us to become a contender. Some people think Miller leaving is inevitable so just get what you can for him. I don't see that personally. Miller is a competitive guy who wants to win. He doesn't seem like the type of guy who will simply go to the highest bidder regardless of what team it is. I think he wants to win a Cup. The teams that are Cup contenders don't really have the money to pay Miller $9 million. He'd have to go a borderline playoff team with cap space. Not sure he would want to do that. Edited March 18, 2022 by Elias Pettersson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Tampa and Florida both improving. New York is having a historically good season from their goaltender and look to have a deep team. It will be interesting to see how they respond. Yes, and what about BOS and WAS? Tampa and Florida are loading up, so do these teams get desperate (overpay) to keep pace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Can we get 2 firsts for Hoglander then? Hagel has double the goals. And despite being of short stature, BH is really gritty. Nils is going to have to hit the gym for a couple years to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 You can tell Yzerman is no longer running the show there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, stawns said: But not contenders, nor will Van be with a declining asset at an astronomical pricetag We have Demko, Dallas has Holtby. We have support players like Petey, Horvat, Garland, etc. Dallas had to shell out almost $6 million to keep a 38 year old Pavelski because they have no depth after Seguin and Benn. That's the difference between them and us. With Boudreau as our coach we are much better than Dallas and we are a top 10 team in the league as per the NHL stats. Our problem was that Green was around for 25 games which screwed up our season. We've solved that problem now and have a Cup winning management team. Hey, JR may very well decide to trade Miller. I am not opposed to it if the return is ridiculous. Schneider, Kravtsov and a 1st doesn't do it for me. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't do it for JR either. I am sure that trade is on the table and it is JR who is saying no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Those stats alone tell you who are our two MVP's of the team. The two untouchables really. As Miller and Demko go so do the Canucks. We can win without Petey or Huggy in the lineup. We can't do it without Demko or Miller. Hey, if the return is ridiculous I am not opposed to trading Miller. If Edmonton offered us Draisaitl for Demko I'd probably pull the trigger on that one too. No player is untouchable. If Gretzky can be traded at age 28 then any player can be traded. But these Miller proposals I am seeing do not do it for me and they will not help us to become a contender. Some people think Miller leaving is inevitable so just get what you can for him. I don't see that personally. Miller is a competitive guy who wants to win. He doesn't seem like the type of guy who will simply go to the highest bidder regardless of what team it is. I think he wants to win a Cup. The teams that are Cup contenders don't really have the money to pay Miller $9 million. He'd have to go a borderline playoff team with cap space. Not sure he would want to do that. That's...not right at all no. That is a clear indicator that this team is 100% not deep enough or complete enough to compete. If you can run one goalie or forward out of the game you win period. Ya we can win without Petey or Huggy? Ok cool. But if we CAN'T win without Demko or Miller that says literally everything you need to know about why retaining a near 30 year old for over $9 million at fair market value who can be the single easiest to neutralize person for a win; is a bad idea Miller doesn't have any protection in the event of a trade. We also can not afford fair market value for a player whose agent literally tweeted SHOW ME THE MONEY after the Hertl signing Something's gotta give and we know that our potential greatest strength is also obviously our greatest weakness 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Demko Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Speculation at best... Is Miller guaranteed to re-sign in Van? It's a case for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Bang Boogie Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: We have Demko, Dallas has Holtby. We have support players like Petey, Horvat, Garland, etc. Dallas had to shell out almost $6 million to keep a 38 year old Pavelski because they have no depth after Seguin and Benn. That's the difference between them and us. With Boudreau as our coach we are much better than Dallas and we are a top 10 team in the league as per the NHL stats. Our problem was that Green was around for 25 games which screwed up our season. We've solved that problem now and have a Cup winning management team. Hey, JR may very well decide to trade Miller. I am not opposed to it if the return is ridiculous. Schneider, Kravtsov and a 1st doesn't do it for me. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't do it for JR either. I am sure that trade is on the table and it is JR who is saying no. I get your point but I think you are incorrect about Dallas. Robertson is their best player this year and Pavelski is somehow having a career year. Hintz is a stud too. Benn and Seguin are still solid players but definitely underperforming. What makes their team good is their stellar d corps. Heiskanen, Klingberg, Suter and Lindell is just amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Mega overpayment. Hagel is having a good year, yes, but he's young, small and a former 6th rounder having a flash in the pan kind of season. Katchouk and Raddysh alone are bigger, former 2nd round picks and could end up being better players let alone 2 1sts. I wonder if Tampa could have spent these assets better elsewhere. Admittedly these are very late 1sts. By this token, Motte's worth a 1st. Miller's worth Schneider + Lafrenierre + 1st. Boeser or Garland must easily be worth an A grade prospect + player + 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: We have Demko, Dallas has Holtby. We have support players like Petey, Horvat, Garland, etc. Dallas had to shell out almost $6 million to keep a 38 year old Pavelski because they have no depth after Seguin and Benn. That's the difference between them and us. With Boudreau as our coach we are much better than Dallas and we are a top 10 team in the league as per the NHL stats. Our problem was that Green was around for 25 games which screwed up our season. We've solved that problem now and have a Cup winning management team. Hey, JR may very well decide to trade Miller. I am not opposed to it if the return is ridiculous. Schneider, Kravtsov and a 1st doesn't do it for me. And I'm pretty sure it doesn't do it for JR either. I am sure that trade is on the table and it is JR who is saying no. Dallas has Pavelski, robertson, Hesikanen, Klingberg, Suter and Hintz. Benn and Seguin are tragically 4th and 6th in team scoring while being almost $19 million on their cap. They also have some decent prospects worth mentioning in Hansson, Bourque, Stanloven, Johnston and Oettinger. Again, neutralize Miller and we're done. Neutralize any of those aforementioned players on the main Dallas roster and Dallas is still 3 points up on us with games at hand. Again, my main point is that Miller is highly comparable to Benn/Seguin in terms of age and production as well as contract potential. We can't afford that with the obvious holes in our line up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BureBurrito Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Lot to give up for TB? Hagel is good but 2 first rounders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Mega overpayment. Hagel is having a good year, yes, but he's young, small and a former 6th rounder having a flash in the pan kind of season. Katchouk and Raddysh alone are bigger, former 2nd round picks and could end up being better players let alone 2 1sts. I wonder if Tampa could have spent these assets better elsewhere. Admittedly these are very late 1sts. By this token, Motte's worth a 1st. Miller's worth Schneider + Lafrenierre + 1st. Boeser or Garland must easily be worth an A grade prospect + player + 1st. If Hagel gives them the same production over the next 2 seasons as he gave Chicago this year, the deal is actually not overpayment imo. 30 goal pace over 82 games, for 1.5m a year, signed on for 2 more years. Unicorn contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Demko Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Miller is a competitive guy who wants to win. He doesn't seem like the type of guy who will simply go to the highest bidder regardless of what team it is. I think he wants to win a Cup. The teams that are Cup contenders don't really have the money to pay Miller $9 million. He'd have to go a borderline playoff team with cap space. Not sure he would want to do that. Exactly the reason why some believe Miller will be looking at options in the FA market and not providing the Canucks with any sweetheart deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Mega overpayment. Hagel is having a good year, yes, but he's young, small and a former 6th rounder having a flash in the pan kind of season. Katchouk and Raddysh alone are bigger, former 2nd round picks and could end up being better players let alone 2 1sts. I wonder if Tampa could have spent these assets better elsewhere. Admittedly these are very late 1sts. By this token, Motte's worth a 1st. Miller's worth Schneider + Lafrenierre + 1st. Boeser or Garland must easily be worth an A grade prospect + player + 1st. While I agree with some of this. The key to the deal is the bargain salary for two more years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Seems like lesser players will end up getting sellers the better "value" this TDL - players like Motte, Boeser, Horvat, might actually get more during the TDL than Miller (relative to skill, value, etc.). Trade two/three of Motte/Boeser/Horvat/Myers at the deadline and Miller plus one of those four at the draft (unless a five year extension can get done for Miller). That could set the team up for the next four years (of Demko). I like Horvat but he doesn't have the drive to push this team over the top (too many excuses for why this team continues to make the same mistakes over and over again). Edited March 18, 2022 by 5nothincanucksohno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, BureBurrito said: Lot to give up for TB? Hagel is good but 2 first rounders? Bold prediction: Tampa loses Vasilevsky and Kucherov for the season next year and that first pick ends up being Bedard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just now, DeNiro said: Bold prediction: Tampa loses Vasilevsky and Kucherov for the season next year and that first pick ends up being Bedard Top-10 protected: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Demko Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Just now, DeNiro said: Bold prediction: Tampa loses Vasilevsky and Kucherov for the season next year and that first pick ends up being Bedard You mean they'll utilize that cap space to get someone else, squeeze into playoffs, Vasi and Kuch magically comes back at 100% and wins it all! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_of_94 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 13 minutes ago, Warhippy said: That's...not right at all no. That is a clear indicator that this team is 100% not deep enough or complete enough to compete. If you can run one goalie or forward out of the game you win period. Ya we can win without Petey or Huggy? Ok cool. But if we CAN'T win without Demko or Miller that says literally everything you need to know about why retaining a near 30 year old for over $9 million at fair market value who can be the single easiest to neutralize person for a win; is a bad idea Miller doesn't have any protection in the event of a trade. We also can not afford fair market value for a player whose agent literally tweeted SHOW ME THE MONEY after the Hertl signing Something's gotta give and we know that our potential greatest strength is also obviously our greatest weakness You’re absolutely right. Players that are seen as top 20 in this league are currently around 10.8+/season. Miller was tied with Rantanen for 9th in the nhl point race. Rantanen makes 9.25x6 and he only offers offensive abilities. JT has offense+hitting+defending+leadership. To think that he’ll be making anything less than 10 is crazy and if he hits the free market, he’s going to get a Tavares like deal from someone. Even if he loves Vancouver, it’s probably going to cost the Canucks 10million x7/8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Bold prediction: Tampa loses Vasilevsky and Kucherov for the season next year and that first pick ends up being Bedard They top 10 protected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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