How did JR/PA do on TDL 2022? (10 being best, 1 being worst)

[Goal:thecup]

How many of the posters that are satisfied with this TDL were previously spouting for sure we were going to trade Miller this TDL?

[MrCanuck94]

2 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

"if your players Tyler Motte makes 500k too much, your Tyler Myers make 2 million too much, those are the type of deals that will hurt you when you try build a team that are a contender"

 

BANG ON by Jannik Hansen, someone who's lived these situations. Like he said, the last 5/6 years the team has given too many player friendly contracts, paying them more than their value, rather than team value contracts.

 

We can't just let assets walk for free. The 4th pick can't just be valued by the % of the pick becoming a player. The capital can be used as an added asset that helps win you a trade. It can be combined with cap space to land a player way under value (Schmidt, Toews). There's so many more possibilities, but those possibilities need to be open by having the cap space and more assets on hand. A lot more work to be done in the offseason.

Posting this here as well since it's relevant.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, Canucks_fo_life said:

Cammi Granato and Emile Castonguay don't get a free pass either

Any peticular reason you call those 2 out and not Derek Clancey? 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

I personally think that there should be an INC in the list of options as I believe the management team laid some groundwork for bigger deals this summer. This is like a midterm and the finals doesn't happen until the start of next season. If by the start of the season, we still have a team sorely lacking in the 2 things JR wants (skill and speed) and there's no cap space to get there, then we could consider this a Fail.

[JM_]

19 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Travis Hamonic and Tyler Motte for Travis Dermott and Brad Richardson.

 

Not great.

that's funny, on balance I see it as 1.5 mil in cap space, Dermott and Richardson for free. 

 

Sure its not a legendary TDL but moving any cap in this market without cost is a win. 

[AV.]

I reiterate:

This deadline was meh.  Nothing special, nothing amazing, but the fact remains, the Canucks came out with a younger defenceman, a trim to the wages, and recouped a pick.  This regime shouldn't be celebrated for their work at this TDL, but in no way should they be criticized since they quite literally just did the bare minimum in terms of responsibility and stewardship of this team.

Judge them at the draft and in the off-season.  If they fail to clear more money, or find a way to lose picks, or make boneheaded moves akin to the last regime, by all means, roast them.

[Me_]

20 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We barely sold anything, and yet we're a worse hockey team. 

 

That is some next level failure 

Must be hard to be you. 
 

Here’s some help:

 

Click Here For a Better Life

 

 

[Me_]

9 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Posting this here as well since it's relevant.

Thing is, not everyone wants to play in Canada, let alone Vancouver. 

[BC_Hawk]

12 hours ago, RWJC said:

One thing about all of this that I hope we can all agree on is that we havent yet seen what kind of salary structure model this new mgmt team is going to utilize.

 

Perhaps they are looking at an internally imposed limit as to what can be spent per “tier” and where that money is best allocated. Motte at 2.75-3.5 is not going to move up the lineup. That’s a lot of money spent on a single player on the 3rd/4th who is an amazing motor but doesn’t provide much offense. For 2.75-3.5 that’s almost a requirement for team depth. 

 

Form what we’ve witnessed, the same level of Motte’s total “contribution” can be realized by other players earning in the 750K-1million range.  For 1 Motte you can potentially have 2.75 roster players earning as much in total and forming an almost complete line.

 

This is the kind of assessment that needs to be done in order  for this team to get itself out from under cap restraint hell.  For me, the big question is who does mgmt think are the players in that cap range that can achieve this. Luckily we have had two breakout candidates in Llama and the Stoner, but unfortunately both are upcoming RFA so are due for a raise.

 

My best guess is that we are going to approach the future with a much different distribution of cap amongst the players. Motte is a casualty of this.

 

I loved Motte here but he has clearly played and priced himself out of what is realistically affordable for this team. 

I have to disagree. The emergence of the 4th line coincided with Motte's return. He was the motor that drove that line. We've seen what happens when you put 1m plugs in there, and its not pretty. And, in terms of cash, 2.75-3.5 is way too much for Motte. All indications were that he was looking for 2.25-2.5, and Allvin said he offered 1.??. That's a lowball in my opinion, and no surprise a deal couldn't get done.

 

He should have been retained at 2.25ish for 3 years and promoted to 3rd line. Canucks then need to rid themselves of Dickinson, even if it means draft capital or buyout.

 

Anyways, water under bridge.....we just shouldn't make this FO out to be SO good when they haven't done anything yet other than thin out our 4th line for the remainder of the year for pocket change.

[BC_Hawk]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

ya i'm interested to see how summer will go.. i honestly don't see the trades happening in the summer as some predicted. if any trades going to happen it's going to happen at the draft before free agency. not after free agency when all the team have no more cap to work with.

And, realistically, whom on the team is tradable for a sizable return. Petterson, Demko, and Hughes are off limits. Horvat and Miller have value, but are heart and soul guys. The rest are either overpriced ($ and term) mediocre players. Those who think BBs rights are worth a pick/prospect are dreaming. Sorry to say it; just the way it is.

Edited March 22, 2022 by BC_Hawk

[BC_Hawk]

52 minutes ago, JM_ said:

that's funny, on balance I see it as 1.5 mil in cap space, Dermott and Richardson for free. 

 

Sure its not a legendary TDL but moving any cap in this market without cost is a win. 

And you got out of the 3m cap hit in 2023 for a 1.5m flyer on a player that couldn't crack the top6 in TO. You just paid 1.5m in 2023 for a 3 week audition. Though I'm excited to see what he can do, I would have much rather had the 3m to throw in the pot and sign a FA Top4 RHD in the summer. Id be even more excited if we brought Rathbone up for 3 weeks and given him an audition for 2023 at no cost.

Edited March 22, 2022 by BC_Hawk

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

And you got out of the 3m cap hit in 2023 for a 1.5m flyer on a player that couldn't crack the top6 in TO. You just paid 1.5m in 2023 for a 3 week audition. Though I'm excited to see what he can do, I would have much rather had the 3m to throw in the pot and sign a FA Top4 RHD in the summer. Id be even more excited if we brought Rathbone up for 3 weeks and given him an audition for 2023 at no cost.

the Dermott thing is interesting. Could we actually get a bottom 6 upgrade for cheaper in free agency? thats not usually the time bargains are found. 

 

If Dermott actually works out to be a solid player, its a good move. If he's junk we can waive him, and likely someone picks him up or most of his deal is buried. Its pretty low risk.

 

We'll see Rathbone for a few games I'm sure. 

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

You just paid 1.5m in 2023 for a 3 week audition.

1/4 of  $1.5 mill as the season is 3/4 done.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

The biggest reason we can’t make trades is because of our lack of depth and picks. If we had players in the pipeline we could trade a player like Miller. Another big problem is that we overvalued so many of our players that never lived up to the contracts they have and every team sees what we are seeing with those players. They are not that good and teams weren’t lining up to get them. So we are stuck with them for now. I think this new management based on the Hamonic deal is aware of that and is good enough to make deals. It is still going to be difficult in the summer but I think it’s going to show how good our management is when they can deal some of these contracts away and open up cap space. The Benning era really screwed this team over in terms of picks and depth. They just didn’t have a vision.

[RWJC]

29 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

I have to disagree. The emergence of the 4th line coincided with Motte's return. He was the motor that drove that line. We've seen what happens when you put 1m plugs in there, and its not pretty. And, in terms of cash, 2.75-3.5 is way too much for Motte. All indications were that he was looking for 2.25-2.5, and Allvin said he offered 1.??. That's a lowball in my opinion, and no surprise a deal couldn't get done.

 

He should have been retained at 2.25ish for 3 years and promoted to 3rd line. Canucks then need to rid themselves of Dickinson, even if it means draft capital or buyout.

 

Anyways, water under bridge.....we just shouldn't make this FO out to be SO good when they haven't done anything yet other than thin out our 4th line for the remainder of the year for pocket change.

Say what you will about the 4th line, but I think that’s the model that should be followed if we are unable to clear bad cap on the very short term. I’d rather a 4th line of 750K-1mil players for a season or two (ELC’s also fall into that range) than spending the next few years paying out dead cap on buyouts or salary retention 

[NHTyrany]

3 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

The biggest reason we can’t make trades is because of our lack of depth and picks. If we had players in the pipeline we could trade a player like Miller. Another big problem is that we overvalued so many of our players that never lived up to the contracts they have and every team sees what we are seeing with those players. They are not that good and teams weren’t lining up to get them. So we are stuck with them for now. I think this new management based on the Hamonic deal is aware of that and is good enough to make deals. It is still going to be difficult in the summer but I think it’s going to show how good our management is when they can deal some of these contracts away and open up cap space. The Benning era really screwed this team over in terms of picks and depth. They just didn’t have a vision.

I wonder if Trevor will shed any light on this now that JB is gone. The Roster is not bad but yes, the cupboards are pretty bare, which is what happens when you try to retool vs. rebuild. Not sure how much was JB's or ownership's call.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

that's funny, on balance I see it as 1.5 mil in cap space, Dermott and Richardson for free. 

 

Sure its not a legendary TDL but moving any cap in this market without cost is a win. 

It’s good that they cleared cap space, there’s no argument there. But if it means overpaying players during free agency that will total the freed cap space, then we’re back to square one again. This summer will be a better indicator of what this regime is capable of doing.

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

It’s good that they cleared cap space, there’s no argument there. But if it means overpaying players during free agency that will total the freed cap space, then we’re back to square one again. This summer will be a better indicator of what this regime is capable of doing.

We still have a few trade chips that were likely neutered based on NHL market demands vs contender team cap constraints at this deadline.

 

The offseason provides a far more balanced opportunity and level playing field/ice sheet, and will also involve a few teams with bloated rosters looking to shed or possibly even retool based on what was expected of their playoff performance.

 

We can capitalize on that.

Edited March 22, 2022 by RWJC

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

It’s good that they cleared cap space, there’s no argument there. But if it means overpaying players during free agency that will total the freed cap space, then we’re back to square one again. This summer will be a better indicator of what this regime is capable of doing.

for sure, this is just step 1 and I'm a bit wary of free agency too, but I doubt we'll be any kind of major player in that unless we move Myers.

 

I do think Allvin is feeling a lot of heat over things that are from the previous mgmt group, maybe not totally fair. 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I am a little surprised they said they weren’t looking at ncaa prospects. Didn’t they mention that when Rutherford came on board? I was a little surprised by that.