Canucks prospect Karlsson breaks Pettersson's rookie record in Sweden

[Gawdzukes]

16 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

I actually wonder why this is the case? I was pretty surprised the record was only 24 goals for a rookie prior to Karlsson breaking it, and obviously Petey who established that record.

 

Is it a super defensive heavy league?

The SHL is obviously not nearly on the same level as the NHL so I was always wondering why there aren't more prolific goal scorers in that league since it seems like it would be easier to get points.

 

 

Over a 82 game schedule that's 39 goals. Would tie him for 16th all time in the NHL with A. Statsny, P. Statsny, Yzerman, and Crosby numbers wise. One behind the great Austin Matthews. 

[vancan2233]

2 hours ago, kloubek said:

I'm sure you are basing that statement on facts you picked up somewhere, though I would personally rank AHL 3rd and SHL 4th - but we're splitting hairs.

Your comment is like saying that Rivian stock price is #2 in the world amongst EV car companies. Which sounds great, until you realize their stock price is $46 a share and the #1 positioned Tesla sells at over $1,000 a share. Sure, it's great for them to be in that position and all, but the fact is that it's nowhere near Tesla level. Similarly, it's a good sign Karlsson is doing well in the SHL - but the competition is not great and I'll personally not get too worked up over him until I see what he can do against NHL-level competition. 

 

As an example, do you remember Bill Sweatt? He played a few games for us early last decade, but couldn't stick in the NHL. Yet, in 2014 when he left for the SHL he ended up 10th in scoring that year.

 

It's not remotely the same level of league.

SHL is one of the best development leagues in the world , producing some of the best players in the history of the NHL. The key here is development league. Of course it does not compare to the NHL no league even comes close. The reason it is such a great development league is once drafted a NHL team can leave a player to develop for 4 years and still control the players rights. Now Karlsson being 22 does lower the record to being good and not outstanding, but it is the way he scores goals that has the transfer rate to the NHL. You here it all the time with goal scorers " they just have a natural instinct to position themselves to be in the best position to score" or something to that matter. He is also not a one dimensional player. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by vancan2233

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Regarding the ranking of leagues and whether the SHL is “better” than the AHL, usually these determinations are made using NHLe.

 

NHLe is generally calculated by looking at every player who has played in a given league and then gone on to play in the NHL the following season. Their points per game are compared, and the totals for all those players are used to build the equivalency factor. Sometimes there’s a minimum number of games requirement (ie: 20 or more games in given league, then 20 games or more games in NHL). And sometimes a certain historical timeframe of multiple seasons is used, while for others, it’s done year by year, or optimized for the more recent data. But in all cases, the calculation attempts to use the largest sample possible, by looking at every player available within the timeframe being examined, who has moved from one of the lower leagues to the NHL, and comparing their production between leagues.

 

The results of these calculations are quite consistent, when it comes to ranking the “best” hockey leagues around the globe. The NHL is, obviously, the world’s top league. The KHL is a clear second. And the SHL is nearly always third. Next (at 4th) is usually the AHL, although some calculations will put the AHL below one or two of the elite European leagues. The AHL tends to rate very close to the Finnish Liiga and Swiss NLA, as well as some of the better NCAA conferences, when it comes to NHLe. The next step down finds the CHL leagues (QMJHL, OHL, WHL), the lesser NCAA conferences, and the lesser European elite leagues.

 

The AHL is never rated higher than the SHL, when looking NHLe, which used the actual results for all the players moving between these leagues in a given timeframe. For nearly two decades now, the SHL has always rated better the the AHL, and by quite a significant factor.

 

Here’s one recent (public) NHLe list:

 

And here’s a very recent (2021) attempt at building a “better” NHLe model, which at the end of the article, offers NHLe factors for nearly every hockey league in the world:

https://towardsdatascience.com/nhl-equivalency-and-prospect-projection-models-building-the-nhl-equivalency-model-part-2-6f275a45e22

(The AHL is actually ranked 7th here)

 

 

[kloubek]

Kudos to the Finnish and Swiss leagues for being ranked so highly!

[Alflives]

36 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Regarding the ranking of leagues and whether the SHL is “better” than the AHL, usually these determinations are made using NHLe.

 

NHLe is generally calculated by looking at every player who has played in a given league and then gone on to play in the NHL the following season. Their points per game are compared, and the totals for all those players are used to build the equivalency factor. Sometimes there’s a minimum number of games requirement (ie: 20 or more games in given league, then 20 games or more games in NHL). And sometimes a certain historical timeframe of multiple seasons is used, while for others, it’s done year by year, or optimized for the more recent data. But in all cases, the calculation attempts to use the largest sample possible, by looking at every player available within the timeframe being examined, who has moved from one of the lower leagues to the NHL, and comparing their production between leagues.

 

The results of these calculations are quite consistent, when it comes to ranking the “best” hockey leagues around the globe. The NHL is, obviously, the world’s top league. The KHL is a clear second. And the SHL is nearly always third. Next (at 4th) is usually the AHL, although some calculations will put the AHL below one or two of the elite European leagues. The AHL tends to rate very close to the Finnish Liiga and Swiss NLA, as well as some of the better NCAA conferences, when it comes to NHLe. The next step down finds the CHL leagues (QMJHL, OHL, WHL), the lesser NCAA conferences, and the lesser European elite leagues.

 

The AHL is never rated higher than the SHL, when looking NHLe, which used the actual results for all the players moving between these leagues in a given timeframe. For nearly two decades now, the SHL has always rated better the the AHL, and by quite a significant factor.

 

Here’s one recent (public) NHLe list:

 

And here’s a very recent (2021) attempt at building a “better” NHLe model, which at the end of the article, offers NHLe factors for nearly every hockey league in the world:

https://towardsdatascience.com/nhl-equivalency-and-prospect-projection-models-building-the-nhl-equivalency-model-part-2-6f275a45e22

(The AHL is actually ranked 7th here)

 

 

And with the Ruble decline and Russia hated the KHL will drop a lot over the next while, if they continue to exist at all.  

[Rindiculous]

On 3/23/2022 at 7:26 AM, AriGold said:

One of these 4 of bust....

No idea where I get this from but I have a feeling you might have liked the Red Wings of the early 2000s.

[vancan2233]

59 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Regarding the ranking of leagues and whether the SHL is “better” than the AHL, usually these determinations are made using NHLe.

 

NHLe is generally calculated by looking at every player who has played in a given league and then gone on to play in the NHL the following season. Their points per game are compared, and the totals for all those players are used to build the equivalency factor. Sometimes there’s a minimum number of games requirement (ie: 20 or more games in given league, then 20 games or more games in NHL). And sometimes a certain historical timeframe of multiple seasons is used, while for others, it’s done year by year, or optimized for the more recent data. But in all cases, the calculation attempts to use the largest sample possible, by looking at every player available within the timeframe being examined, who has moved from one of the lower leagues to the NHL, and comparing their production between leagues.

 

The results of these calculations are quite consistent, when it comes to ranking the “best” hockey leagues around the globe. The NHL is, obviously, the world’s top league. The KHL is a clear second. And the SHL is nearly always third. Next (at 4th) is usually the AHL, although some calculations will put the AHL below one or two of the elite European leagues. The AHL tends to rate very close to the Finnish Liiga and Swiss NLA, as well as some of the better NCAA conferences, when it comes to NHLe. The next step down finds the CHL leagues (QMJHL, OHL, WHL), the lesser NCAA conferences, and the lesser European elite leagues.

 

The AHL is never rated higher than the SHL, when looking NHLe, which used the actual results for all the players moving between these leagues in a given timeframe. For nearly two decades now, the SHL has always rated better the the AHL, and by quite a significant factor.

 

Here’s one recent (public) NHLe list:

 

And here’s a very recent (2021) attempt at building a “better” NHLe model, which at the end of the article, offers NHLe factors for nearly every hockey league in the world:

https://towardsdatascience.com/nhl-equivalency-and-prospect-projection-models-building-the-nhl-equivalency-model-part-2-6f275a45e22

(The AHL is actually ranked 7th here)

 

 

Pettersson:  Calculated points using NHLe = 62 point in 82 games, actual = 66 points in 68 games.

Panarin: Calculated points using NHLe = 76 points in 82 games, actual = 77 points in 80 games.

Makar: Calculated points using NHLe = 43 points in 82 games, actual = 50 points in 57 games. 

If the above hit the NHLe calculated point totals it would be a good first year, but two of them produced way above. The NHLe is pretty close, especially when all three are from deferent leagues and Panarin being 23 or 24 his first year. 

[vancan2233]

29 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

Pettersson:  Calculated points using NHLe = 62 point in 82 games, actual = 66 points in 68 games.

Panarin: Calculated points using NHLe = 76 points in 82 games, actual = 77 points in 80 games.

Makar: Calculated points using NHLe = 43 points in 82 games, actual = 50 points in 57 games. 

If the above hit the NHLe calculated point totals it would be a good first year, but two of them produced way above. The NHLe is pretty close, especially when all three are from deferent leagues and Panarin being 23 or 24 his first year. 

Linus Karlsson  NHLe works out to be 43 points in 82 games. Seeing how Panarin's calculation was the most accurate it is possible Linus could get around 40 points in the NHL with the right playing time. I say 20 to 30 with bottom 6 ice time and sometime in the AHL. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by vancan2233

[Goal:thecup]

The KHL must be teetering toward Komplete Kollapse with their highest scorer ever (Putin, of course) still fighting the Second World War and The World (except the Chinese) shutting Russia out of everything.

Vlad the Conqueror:  (a tad long, but funny)

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

So if Karlsson comes over here and has a really good season and Dahlen continues to flounder next season, can we bump the Dahlen for Karlsson trade thread every ten minutes like the trolls were at the start of the season?

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

So if Karlsson comes over here and has a really good season and Dahlen continues to flounder next season, can we bump the Dahlen for Karlsson trade thread every ten minutes like the trolls were at the start of the season?

Don't worry, you know I'll be there to do it lol

[48MPHSlapShot]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Don't worry, you know I'll be there to do it lol

I was in that thread fighting the good fight and pumping Karlsson's tires early in the season. I know it's too early for me to proclaim victory considering that Karlsson has yet to even sign, let alone play a single game, but if things continue to go the way they're going, I'm going to be a little petty and rub some noses in it.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I was in that thread fighting the good fight and pumping Karlsson's tires early in the season. I know it's too early for me to proclaim victory considering that Karlsson has yet to even sign, let alone play a single game, but if things continue to go the way they're going, I'm going to be a little petty and rub some noses in it.

Good.  I'll be there with ya!

[N4ZZY]

22 hours ago, Baggins said:

You just never really know really know until they get here. Some excel at a level below the NHL but for whatever reason just can't make that next step. Just as some excellent juniors never even make an impact in the AHL. Scouts look for skills and traits but you just never know until they arrive at the next level. For some no amount of coaching will get them any further. Their ability just caps out.

 

One thing I read about Karlsson that should help him advance is he plays an aggressive 200' game at C or wing and also plays both pp and pk. His SHL coach even plays him in the dying minutes holding a one goal lead. Those are good traits to increase his odds of making the jump. According to scouting reports I read he's increased his "expected ceiling" from bottom six in NHL when drafted to middle six now. But prospects don't come with any guarantees. I'm the 'wait and see' type, rather than the 'I expect him on the big club right away' type.

 

I read McDonough is still not a great skater, although he did hire a skating coach this year, and still needs work on his defensive game. Gaudette at least came in a good skater. If McDonough is signed I expect him to start in Abby. Even if the reports on Karlsson are accurate I figure he's 50/50 at best whether he starts in the AHL or NHL. Hoglander certainly surprised me last year.  Again, you just don't know until they arrive.

McDonough still not a good skater? I mean at some point, that’s going to be a sticking point in his game no? 

[N4ZZY]

11 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I was in that thread fighting the good fight and pumping Karlsson's tires early in the season. I know it's too early for me to proclaim victory considering that Karlsson has yet to even sign, let alone play a single game, but if things continue to go the way they're going, I'm going to be a little petty and rub some noses in it.

I think the more prospects we can get to Abby, the better. I know Cull doesn’t have a great track record, and maybe the coaching changes this off-season with JR overseeing a more broader look on the organization. But honestly, I think Cull remains. Wouldn’t know why since there are very few prospects that have graduated under his tenure so far as head coach in Abby. 

 

[N4ZZY]

13 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

The KHL must be teetering toward Komplete Kollapse with their highest scorer ever (Putin, of course) still fighting the Second World War and The World (except the Chinese) shutting Russia out of everything.

Vlad the Conqueror:  (a tad long, but funny)

 

 

LMAO. When Putin has an 8 goal game in the KHL all star game, you know the league isn’t very good. 

 

[Baggins]

6 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

McDonough still not a good skater? I mean at some point, that’s going to be a sticking point in his game no? 

It does rather depend on how much that skating coach has helped. Needing to work on something doesn't rule a player out.