Allvin & Rutherford Press Summary

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

So why didn’t they win in the years before?

Uhh... they did win.  They won in 2008-09.  No Letang yet, but they had Fleury.

 

EDIT:  My bad, didn't see him on the list, but he's there (Letang)

 

Coaching apparently mattered... Bylsma couldn't get it done.  They switched to Johnston and Sullivan, and they won 2 in a row.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by HKSR

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

JR definitely benefitted from having Crosby, Malkin and Letang.  JR even pointed out when he was hired that VAN has never had a 1st overall and they need that. Makes me wonder if he has plans for a blockbuster at the Draft, or maybe he'll sign Letang in the off season.

Letang would be a stop gap solution... He's 35 years old already lol

 

Philly and that 4th OA pick is interesting considering they have eyes on Miller possibly? 

[Dr. Crossbar]

I appreciate JR's honesty and answering many questions directly. Even if it's not what we want to hear. Just be open, honest, and tell fans why things are happening in a certain manner.

At least guys like Rutherford and Boudreau provide specific examples based on their experience as compared to the past regime who were way more cagey, careful, and elusive. Right now I think Allvin may fall into the latter ... seems a bit too careful and elusive. Would like him to drop the wall a bit more.

I liked the specifics about our defensive needs, zone exits, structure ... also goaltending and the specifics about Spencer Martin and what JR sees in his play.

I did find it odd that for the past few months both JR and Allvin said they're waiting to see what they have in this team, leave it up to the players, before they make any decisions yet they also admitted that the team's recent good play had no impact on their long term vision. So, it didn't matter what the players did? Just struck me as odd.

I'm a bit concerned about the Boudreau situation. The guy came in, did a phenomenal job, turned us around, had the team in it until the final week, had playoff numbers since he was hired, AND became a massive fan favorite ... yet management is less supportive and more critical of the guy. Then say, they don't want it to get emotional when they're seemingly making it emotional. Again ..  just struck me as odd.

Still in a wait and see mode with new management. I'm trusting more in JR's experience right now and also have confidence in Boudreau's experience as well.

[MrCanuck94]

4 hours ago, -DLC- said:

Which isn't just "plan b" as a concrete plan because that involves other teams. People act as if trades are just one and done. 

 

So it's not like you can decide to ship him out without the plan b working out as well. I mean, they were likely already getting offers and I doubt they'll move him just for the sake of...it has to be right. So it'll likely involve a whole lot more than "it's this or goodbye" as they have to then make plan b something of value (too). If they didn't already strike while the iron was hot it tells me they likely are reluctant to let him go unless it's a pretty big deal (also). Letting him go because you're trying to save could cost a whole lot as well.

Actually the other poster is correct.

 

JR was on the radio and said specifically if they cannot work a deal with Miller, he will be dealt for assets. That sentiment is the same for other players as well in the "plan B" situation, which include Bo and Brock.

[Baratheon]

9 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Letang would be a stop gap solution... He's 35 years old already lol

 

Philly and that 4th OA pick is interesting considering they have eyes on Miller possibly? 

I know that in another thread you figured New Jersey would be uninterested in Miller since they’re re-building but I actually think they’re a team that could want him (and be capable of offering a package that is worth it).

Possibly fits your Severson idea as well.

[MrCanuck94]

52 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I didn't like the Dermott trade and I still don't like it.  But he can be a 7th Dman for one more year and then maybe we can get an asset back for him.  I agree we need more size on the backend which is why I was puzzled with the Dermott trade, but I guess he is just a stop gap for now.  If Rathbone is in the lineup, we need some RHD that are stay at home and can clear the net.  A younger version of Luke Schenn is what we need for Hughes.  Not sure how we are going to get that piece.  We can trade Miller obviously, but even with Miller it's going to be tough to find a top pairing RHD that has a nasty side.

Dermott is already playing at a 5th Dman level. He's been one of our better defensive D.

[eeeeergh]

19 minutes ago, BPA said:

If they can trade Myers that will free up some cap space.  Should target just Defensive Defenceman on the right side.  Have puck moving D on the left side.

 

Hughes               ?

OEL               Dermott

Rathbone      Schenn 

Burroughs     Poolman

 

Not sure where Poolman places.  Maybe he gets traded.  He looked fine in some games (shot blocking).

 

Dunno…

 

I like your overall idea. It'd be good to see Dermott play some harder and more minutes - (he played an avg of 15 minutes a night, we need to see him play 20 minutes to put him in the top-4 imo). Especially because the OEL pair is going to crunch the tough minutes. 

Expecting Poolman likely a ferland situation where he ends up on LTIR for most of the contract, those migraines cant be cured, just treated. 

Dermott for now slots in somewhere on the bottom pair.

Hughes - 
OEL - 
Rathbone-Dermott

I think Schenn can give us 1 more year with Hughes before we need to find a replacement. 

We really need a minute crunching shutdown defenseman that can play beside OEL and free him up to be vintage OEL. 

Hughes-Schenn (Schenn gets 17 minutes/night like he did this season, Hughes gets 22-23 with his powerplay time)
OEL-Manson (this pair gets 22-25 minutes/night
Rathbone-Dermott (12-15 minutes/night)
*Burroughs, Hunt

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Actually the other poster is correct.

 

JR was on the radio and said specifically if they cannot work a deal with Miller, he will be dealt for assets. That sentiment is the same for other players as well in the "plan B" situation, which include Bo and Brock.

I think you missed my point....being that you only can deal for assets if another team is willing to. That was my point...not that they wouldn't try, but they have to find someone to sign on for that.

[-DLC-]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I'm a bit concerned about the Boudreau situation. The guy came in, did a phenomenal job, turned us around, had the team in it until the final week, had playoff numbers since he was hired, AND became a massive fan favorite ... yet management is less supportive and more critical of the guy. Then say, they don't want it to get emotional when they're seemingly making it emotional. Again ..  just struck me as odd.

Still in a wait and see mode with new management. I'm trusting more in JR's experience right now and also have confidence in Boudreau's experience as well.

I find their point blank attitude to possibly be a bit of an ego thing (I hope not, no room for that).

 

This team responded very well to Bruce and if he's suddenly out of the mix, you may find that those you're counting on have to adjust (again). There's more to leaving Bruce behind than just finding a replacement. Finding a new coach that can establish the level of trust and belief that he did. In a very short time frame. Matters.

 

These players seemed to feel listened to with Bruce...I hope management doesn't tune that out.

 

I see them likely playing hardball a lot...which is fine unless it backfires.

[MrCanuck94]

48 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

JR is obviously a Hall of famer.  But Patrik Allvin has less experience than Benning and it shows.  People like to disparage the way Benning communicated but is Allvin any better?  He's a puppet at this point.  None of the 100 AGM's that JR hired have more experience than Benning and none have proven anything.  I don't think any of them are great communicators either.  JR seems to love all of them.  JR did his job and got the most diverse GM team in the history of sports.  Let's see now if it actually leads to results on the ice.

The puppet comment is not fair at all.

 

Upper management level positions in any organization/business have huge amounts of responsibilities/duties.

 

Seems like we have a good amount of shared duties within the organization. Allvin is brand new to the position, just like any of us new to a job, there will be a learning curve and development process with your coach, who is JR in this circumstance. Any proposal and move have to be approved by higher ups the same as JR approving any move the management group decides to make.

[MrCanuck94]

10 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I think you missed my point....being that you only can deal for assets if another team is willing to. That was my point...not that they wouldn't try, but they have to find someone to sign on for that.

Don't think there will be issues dealing any of Bo, JT or Brock if necessary.

 

Might run into some problems with the Pearson, Myers, Dickinson trades however 

[BigTramFan]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol you literally said he's very good but he's not responsible for half ofthe wins..

I literally said that? Quote me on it.

[MrCanuck94]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I'm a bit concerned about the Boudreau situation. The guy came in, did a phenomenal job, turned us around, had the team in it until the final week, had playoff numbers since he was hired, AND became a massive fan favorite ... yet management is less supportive and more critical of the guy. Then say, they don't want it to get emotional when they're seemingly making it emotional. Again ..  just struck me as odd.

Still in a wait and see mode with new management. I'm trusting more in JR's experience right now and also have confidence in Boudreau's experience as well.

Tbh, I didn't find it emotional at all.

 

They said they wanted him back and they have a history of not giving early extensions to coaches to make sure their hands aren't tied, even with Stanley Cup winners like Sullivan.

 

Like JR said earlier in the year, even if they have the best, they're always looking for better. I'm sure they have candidates that they view just as highly as Bruce, if not better.

[Baratheon]

15 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I find their point blank attitude to possibly be a bit of an ego thing (I hope not, no room for that).

 

This team responded very well to Bruce and if he's suddenly out of the mix, you may find that those you're counting on have to adjust (again). There's more to leaving Bruce behind than just finding a replacement. Finding a new coach that can establish the level of trust and belief that he did. In a very short time frame. Matters.

 

These players seemed to feel listened to with Bruce...I hope management doesn't tune that out.

 

I see them likely playing hardball a lot...which is fine unless it backfires.

I think that first sentence is key.  JR mentioned that there were things they wanted to work on with Bruce.  I think they want to establish who exactly is boss so that their expectations have some teeth to it.  Hopefully this is not about who gets the glory but more about getting everyone on the same page through structure.

 

Edit: Eww... I think a little bit of my grade 9 teacher just came out...

Edited May 4, 2022 by Baratheon

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Don't think there will be issues dealing any of Bo, JT or Brock if necessary.

 

Might run into some problems with the Pearson, Myers, Dickinson trades however 

Well that's a great guess but we also reportedly entertained offers for Miller before the deadline and they fell short.

 

The issues will be if the returns aren't worth it....which could happen. It's not just a done deal because we have to be happy with what comes back this way. 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

22 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Dermott is already playing at a 5th Dman level. He's been one of our better defensive D.

If Dermott is one of your better Dmen then you know you are going to have a problem.  He's a 7th Dman on a good team.  If he's your #5 guy then you got alot of problems...

[-DLC-]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

If Dermott is one of your better Dmen then you know you are going to have a problem.  He's a 7th Dman on a good team.  If he's your #5 guy then you got alot of problems...

I agree!

[Dr. Crossbar]

14 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I find their point blank attitude to possibly be a bit of an ego thing (I hope not, no room for that).

 

This team responded very well to Bruce and if he's suddenly out of the mix, you may find that those you're counting on have to adjust (again). There's more to leaving Bruce behind than just finding a replacement. Finding a new coach that can establish the level of trust and belief that he did. In a very short time frame. Matters.

 

These players seemed to feel listened to with Bruce...I hope management doesn't tune that out.

 

I see them likely playing hardball a lot...which is fine unless it backfires.

Agree. I'm ok with hardball but they also have to recognize the fans and players want Bruce back. Things finally feel good and are good behind the bench. After what we went through for 7-8 years, it's important for management to send a message to fans that they're listening to us as well. 

[Baratheon]

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If Dermott is one of your better Dmen then you know you are going to have a problem.  He's a 7th Dman on a good team.  If he's your #5 guy then you got alot of problems...

7th implies that he sits when everyone is healthy.  I thought he moved the puck quickly and played a fairly solid game.  I think he's worth a regular shift every game.

[Fred65]

59 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Rathbone will give us another great puck mover next year.  Schenn could be his partner on the 3rd pairing.

 

We definitely need to upgrade on the other 2 spots on the right side.  I'd be in favour of trading Myers just to free up the cap space to get a better RHD to partner with OEL.  Lyubushkin is a UFA and I think would be a great partner for OEL.  As for Hughes, we need to obviously trade at least one asset up front to get a young RHD for Hughes.

I see Lyubushkin =  Dermott.  neither could grab a full time spot with the Leaf's as I understand. Here's the thing is if Myers is as bad as fans suggest  ( which I disagree on ) how do you unload him, ditto Poolman, Dickinson often posters are too flipant with trades. The concept of taking fans top of theiir hate list and some how trade them is just plain silly. If they're as bad as fans tell us why would another team want them. The idea is to get better not tread water. Plus fans often believe there's a long line of players wanting to join the Canucks. they're a losing team that has to endure long travel