Allvin & Rutherford Press Summary

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

well technically bruce have a contract.. he has an optional year for next year it's up to him though whether he wants to stay or go.. but given what have transpired today it wouldn't be suprising if a contender decides to change coach ie vegas and they contact bruce.. he packs it up and leave vancouver.. given he had the team for 3/4 of the season and they played as much games as the previous 2 seasons due to covid.. to short change him and say well it wasn't a full season imo is a bit disrespectful.. so let say if vancouver were to sneak into the playoffs as wc2.. would they still be saying the same thing? turning EP and Horvat around alone warrants a short 2 year contract extension.. i mean BB had the approval from JR when he was hired.. so why bother hiring BB if he wasn't what you wanted? the Boudreau contract is prolly one of the weirdest contract i've seen for a veteran head coach.. brought in only for a temporary 3/4 season with a team option year rather than anything secured as with most headcoaches that are brought in outside the organization.. pretty sure most head coaches that were not promoted from within got like at least a 3 year contract when brought into a new team... 

Well, until he has said, he will take the 1 year option, there is no contract?
But yes the ball is in Bruces court, so its up to him, if he stays or leaves, but as of right now Bruce has not said yes to the contract extension. 
 

Agree it feels odd that they seem a little reserved about the extension, but at JR said even Sullivan, who won them 2 cups was on 1 year contracts. 
I think its either Allvin being really interested in bringing a new coach in, or they (JR) feels, that with 1 year contracts the coach has to deliver each year. I can totally see the advantage from the clubs stand point, but not so much from the coach side, and unless there is a big salary involved, or Bruce really has fallen in love with the Canucks, we could easily see him move to another team offering him a longer contract. 

[spook007]

7 hours ago, BPA said:

Sounds like Rathbone is going to get a good look next year.  Probably makes the club as they want puck movers in the back end.  Most likely paired with Dermott (as he can play on the right side).

That sounds like a soft 

 

7 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

 

Firstly thank you for posting these....

 

Secondly, what I read here is, there is no time for Bulls...

Its not like Bennings, we are working on a deal (although he did extend his players to mainly good contracts $ wise). 
He clearly states to the agents, they won't be budging much... 

 

It also sounds like Miller was close ( in their mind) to being traded.... 

 

Make or break time for Rathbone...

[CaptKirk888]

3 hours ago, tas said:

I meant how did his previous teams perform in the playoffs. 

Once again stats. Bowman won 5 cups with an absolutely stacked Montreal team in the 70s. Then in the 80s never went very far with the Sabres, one conference final, no cup appearances, last season missed playoffs, fired mid next season. Then on to another stacked penguins team early 90s, Lemieux, Jagr etc, 2 cups. Then on to another stacked Detroit team of the 90s, Yzerman, Federof, Shannahan, Lidstrom etc. More cups. Bowman was a great coach but was successful with very talented teams when he came in those organizations. Boudreau on the other hand led less talented teams to reach greater heights (similar to the Canucks this year) during the regular season. So come playoff time more talent laden teams with good coaching succeeded. His coaching was awesome, but there is only so much you can do.... with what you have.

 

[24K PureCool]

All I can say is Thank You Bruce for the amazing run. 

 

Good luck wherever you end up, just not against us. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Well, until he has said, he will take the 1 year option, there is no contract?
But yes the ball is in Bruces court, so its up to him, if he stays or leaves, but as of right now Bruce has not said yes to the contract extension. 
 

Agree it feels odd that they seem a little reserved about the extension, but at JR said even Sullivan, who won them 2 cups was on 1 year contracts. 
I think its either Allvin being really interested in bringing a new coach in, or they (JR) feels, that with 1 year contracts the coach has to deliver each year. I can totally see the advantage from the clubs stand point, but not so much from the coach side, and unless there is a big salary involved, or Bruce really has fallen in love with the Canucks, we could easily see him move to another team offering him a longer contract. 

i dunno what i got out of all this was we want you back but we won't extend you right now coz we feel like this might be a fluke and you won't make it thru the entire season next year lol. personally i'm not a big fan of PA so far.. he has basically done nothing with the club up to this point.. i guess i'll give him the summer before having an opinion on him.. but if the team mostly remains the same mostly the core and defense.. and he got rid of Boudreau just for the sake of bringing in his own coach and the team struggles out of the gate.. i think the fans will sour on the management pretty quick.

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

No SV% doesn't show that, but HDsc SV% (high danger scoring chance save percentage) does.

 

Again Demko was good at 0.837 SV% on 283 HD shots, but certainly not top of the league for that stat. Some examples of other goalies from some top teams that had higher HDsc SV%:

 

Shesterkin NYR 0.850 (260 HD shots)

Markstrom CLG 0.838 (253 HD shots)

Andersen CAR 0.841 (232 HD shots)

Husso STL 0.840 (200 HD shots)

 

So although Demko faced more HD chances than these goalies, his SV% wasn't better. He wasn't a superstar in this area. And this also means that a fair share (46 HD goals from 283 HD chances) actually went in, and Demko's play therefore was not wholly responsible for the Canucks winning record.

 

Please don't think I am running down Demko here. He is a very good goalie and he is also young and likely to get even better. He could have had a much lower HDsc SV% and the Canucks would have lost more games.

 

My main point is that you cannot say that Demko's play was "superstar" level and hence he was responsible for the Canucks winning 32 out of 57 games. He played his part and he played it well.

 

Regarding JR's comment about winning 50% due to goaltending, I think you could say the same about most teams in the league, i.e. good goaltending is responsible for about 50% of your wins. What our defense needs to work on is reducing those HD chances to a much lower level. That, along with scoring more goals for, would make Demko's job easier and reduce our dependence on the goalie to win it for us.

lol the difference between demko and the goalies u listed is literally like 1 or 2 more goals.. and all those goalies have a far superior defense to what the canucks have.. you can't just look at well Demko's HD svv% is lower than the other 4 so he's not better.. you also need to look at how does HD chance came about.. example demko might have given up a goal after back to back to back HD chance after another from rebounds etc.. vs those goalies they make a save off a HD chance and then the defense clears the puck.. i mean look at toronto and edmonton.. they are winning inspite of their goaltending.. 

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, tas said:

not literally the only reason, but the difference maker, and that means you're depending on your goalie too much. 

Yes I can agree with 'difference maker'.

 

He is a very good goalie and 100% agree that we need to improve the team so we don't rely on him as much. But we still need him to perform at times when the rest of the team isn't performing as well.

 

I just don't like the rhetoric that the "only" reason we did well with Boudreau was that Demko was amazing. It doesn't ring true. Just look at our last month of games that Demko played. 5 wins, 4 losses. How many of these wins did he steal for us? Maybe the OT win against VGK? That's about it. I'm sure there were other periods through the season where he was the difference maker but he was not the only difference maker on the team.

 

L(OT): VGK 3, VAN 2

W: VAN 5, VGK 1

W: SJS 2, VAN 4

W (OT): VGK 4, VAN 5

W: ARI 1, VAN 7

W: DAL 2, VAN 6

L (SO): OTT 4, VAN 3

L: VAN 3, MIN 6

L: VAN 3, CLG 6 

[BigTramFan]

4 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Nice post, and for sure all great teams have great goalies as well.

 

I think the difference is that to differ ourselves from 'most teams in the league' and become contenders, we have to have a franchise talent goalie that we don't rely on for wins. Like what Vasilevsky is to Tampa.

YES! This ^^^

[BigTramFan]

9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol the difference between demko and the goalies u listed is literally like 1 or 2 more goals.. and all those goalies have a far superior defense to what the canucks have.. you can't just look at well Demko's HD svv% is lower than the other 4 so he's not better.. you also need to look at how does HD chance came about.. example demko might have given up a goal after back to back to back HD chance after another from rebounds etc.. vs those goalies they make a save off a HD chance and then the defense clears the puck.. i mean look at toronto and edmonton.. they are winning inspite of their goaltending.. 

Yes thank you for jumping into the conversation in the middle and removing all context about the original discussion. As I have said repeatedly, Demko is a very good goalie and the stats discussed were not intended to suggest otherwise.

[tas]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Once again stats. Bowman won 5 cups with an absolutely stacked Montreal team in the 70s. Then in the 80s never went very far with the Sabres, one conference final, no cup appearances, last season missed playoffs, fired mid next season. Then on to another stacked penguins team early 90s, Lemieux, Jagr etc, 2 cups. Then on to another stacked Detroit team of the 90s, Yzerman, Federof, Shannahan, Lidstrom etc. More cups. Bowman was a great coach but was successful with very talented teams when he came in those organizations. Boudreau on the other hand led less talented teams to reach greater heights (similar to the Canucks this year) during the regular season. So come playoff time more talent laden teams with good coaching succeeded. His coaching was awesome, but there is only so much you can do.... with what you have.

 

no, his stacked rosters underachieved, actually. 10 times making the playoffs, 6 first round exits. only one single time beyond round two. 

[Phat Fingers]

14 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Here's my quick summary of todays press, if I wrote anything wrong, please let me know and I will correct it.

 

- Hasn't changed their mind on what needs to be done since earlier in the season

- Team relies on goalie too much

- Still have work to do, adding the right couple of players can make us a playoff team

- Don't know if Martin will work out for sure, but having a league minimum backup helps with the cap a lot

- Martin was solid positionally, great at tracking

- Wants to build cap space while improving the team

- Likes the job Boudreau has done

- Structure of the team needs to improve, exits from defensive zone are one of the worst in the league

- Have defensemen that are capable of playing better with better structure

- Fixing the structure will make us a consistently better team

- There is work to be done, they saw improvement but need to get better in all areas

- Situation of adding and subtracting is more complicated here than they like, meetings here in the next week with departments to start making decisions

- Management wants Bruce back, want to work with him on a few things to help make him better

- Strong organizations don't worry about the term "lame duck" coaches, can bring him back for next year and figure it out from there

- We have players that can get to a superstar level in the league - Petey, Hughes, Demko

- Believes there is more to come from Elias

- Crosby and Letang make players around them better, has those type of expectations for those superstar calibre players coming into next season

- Rogers Arena is getting renovations in many areas, some in Abbotsford as well

- Practice arena is getting closer to a site decision

- Francesco had no issues putting money into renovations

- Francesco has let the management do their job, JR speaks to Francesco about every two weeks while grabbing a bite together

- Too early to say on Sutter's future

- Willing to have Bruce under the contract he's on, no extension this year, not against a contract extension after next season

- As good of a job Bruce has done, it wasn't a full season

- Sullivan won the cup with JR in 16 and 17 and he didn't get an extension until needed

- Still evaluating staff, changes might happen

- Comfortable with Todd Harvey leading the amateur scouting for this upcoming draft

- Will reach out to Miller and Horvat's agents to talk about extensions

- Plan to have all signed and unsigned prospects at prospects camp

- Challenge scouts to find players in other leagues

- Young Stars tournament and prospects camp was a priority, existing organization members were all for it

- 2 other teams committed to Young Start Tournament, 1 team in consideration

- We have an older facility, locker room is outdated

- Having up to date facilities helps in recruiting

- Bruce has until June 1st to decide to come back

- Very impressed with Ryan Johnson, rely a lot on RJ, big part of management staff, moving forward will figure out the best position/role for him

- Abbotsford coaching staff have done a good job

- Abbotsford could be the best franchise in the AHL overtime, goal is to make it better and better

- Really liked Podkolzin over the last 4-5 weeks, looked like a full time NHL player, need to develop players to be able to play into May

- Positive talks with Brock and his agent

- Don't need to make major changes, but need to get better through trades and free agency

- Hopes we can find a way to get better long term without taking a step back next season

- Believes Dermott has upside, was able to get younger and shed salary

- Really happy the way the front office has come together and work together

- Cammi Granato keeps amateur scouting and pro scouting accountable

 

edit:

- Doesn't think Demko needs a procedure, should be ready for training camp

Guys, Rutherford and Alvin are smart savvy guys.  
 

Rutherfords pedigree pours cold water on every set style question. 
 

They also have someone paying attention to the main issues that fans are looking at as issues, they put someone on the outside looking at the organization from the outside.  
 

It’s an adaptation of a fundamental principle in Security issues that Israeli faces, that one principle work the issue from outside the chain of command.  
 

To avoid the risk to a total ‘group think’ blind spot or spots developing in their state security.  They always have one of their own trying to break in and find the weak spots before their many enemies find them.  
 

This is also used as a plot line in disaster spoofs.  
 

but it comes with the risk that the outsider is often right.  A very dangerous thing for the establishment to hear.  
 

but I digress….

 

 Alvin and Rutherford don’t just listen to the season ticket holders, they are paying some poor person to listen or track what the die hards are seeing.  
 

Considering how bad almost every other management system in Vancouver’s history, largely due to the very long standing media and management spats and feuds, that have even grown to a nation level, or league wide level, it doesn’t take long for the friction to carry forward into the next regimes.  
 

JB might have had the shortest tenure of respect for the media as a GM, and because the Media are the lens, that disregard carried forward at times to the fans.  JB was a guy that wasn’t the best at communication and didn’t explain his moves all that well.  
 

Rutherford and Alvin put on a Clinic. 
 

But that’s why they are amongst the most popular in management circles with the media, so too is Bruce, and Grannato etc.. 

 

The media around the Hockey world love these folks, they listen and want like what they are hearing because of the way it’s being said.  
 

This won’t come out until the team has success, but that Rutherford and Alvin are coming into a largely finished project… that yes, took longer than anyone expected, but it was a Reno and not a Rebuild.  
 

A tear down rebuild, that’s ugly and it’s turns off fans and the club ownership choose deliberately to go with the more uncertain timeline but still have a ‘liveable structure’ of an on Ice product and use the natural talents of JB scouting background to be the true success.  
 

So the if the Scouting department ‘Drafting and Development’ is the Kitchen then it got all the best stuff first.  Save JV and OJ, that clearly happened.  Yet not one pick above 6 in the entire tenure of JB, we have superstars that are the very type that win championships.  
 

The crapper was kept working, and more were installed. 
 

JB’s last flush was a giant and it used them all at the same time.  Reference the OEL and Garland for a pile of …. Trade that a new coach not in his first NHL gig, would have known would be an issue, with D pairings not settled in Pre season with a huge influx of new guys and Hughes missed most of camp and Hamonic wasn’t there either.  
 

so the tire fire that was the worst defence in the league at getting the puck out of its own zone, I have no doubt that the first 25 games made that stat what it is. 
 

Considering we finished behind Zona on zone exits, based on the season Pre and post Bruce, that tire fire could be seen from space. 
 

Fans should have been prepared and the Coach should have been too.  Or fired… 

 

but love the session of Rutherford and Alvin.  
 

They are doing exacty what this fans hoped, and the team is coming back and more over, Rutherford just heaped the next seasons success on the guys shoulders who want it the most, Hughes, Demko and Patterson and signalled that they are making every effort to resign Brock, a heart and soul guy in the locker room that clearly is very close with the team and club.  
 

He wants to stay.  They want him to stay.  
 

That means that Brock is the type of guy that puts others first, and that type of character is itself being represented by all parties as it should be.  
 

Something that Keenan for instance would be incapable of… and others.  
 

By and large the walls are built, the structure is sound. But the finishing touches are needed and I have to say, those touches are of experience hands, and are taught, learned and mentored.  
 

I hope that this is a new chapter in the media and Canucks relationship, as there is bad blood that goes back to the first season and or draft and doesn’t ever stop.  
 

the first Canada Cup when the fans booed team Canada, that’s still talked about on the east coast, they only remember the bad things out here, they don’t want to like people that live in a better part of the country.  
 

They also bought into the Media Hateraid that was the 2012 SCF. 
 

They are building from within and focused on the Defence and identified the structure and being able to play in it.  
 

That’s not Poolman,  that’s not Hunt.  Myers OEL and Schenn all play structures with Myers being the most likely to get pulled out.  Quinn chased a lot early but really tightened up his play without the puck as the season progressed.  
 

Dermott is found money.  
 

Burroughs is a player that needs to think about his life after hockey, a tough guy, lovely hitter and respected already for his backbone.  
 

But with his size and and fearless play, I want him to think and keep his long term health in mind, when he chooses to drop the gloves and when not too.  KB3 like. 
 

No one is indestructible.  RIP Rypen.   
 

It’s going to be a draft and off season to follow, but not anything more that the finish work needed to take the club to the next level, that’s not a playoff team, it’s to being a contender.  
 

In my mind the club, the players showed me this year that they have the commitment to be the same team the took LV to 7 games two years ago.  
 

Covid is Covid, JV took down the entire year for everyone and will fit in in jail.  

I love the new look Management and their approach to the media.  
 

It’s the first time I have seen it so polished. 

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

6 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

I think those are good numbers, and reasonable as well. Not sure about term, but Rutherford mentioned that when signing an older player, you have to look at what he does in the first three years compared with the final three years. Does this not sound like Rutherford's starting position with Miller is no more than six years? Don't know about Brock, but I think his deal will be more about term than money. Interesting times ahead, but I am confident that Rutherford won't deviate from his plan to ice a team that is younger, faster, more skilled and are more structured in moving the puck out of their own zone.

If it starts with 7, maybe even 8, he will most likely wait until next summer.  Someone will give him a lot more $ than that.

 

Not only do players go for every penny, guys like miller set the bar for other deals and the NHLPA will expect him to get as much as he can

[Alienhuggyflow]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dunno what i got out of all this was we want you back but we won't extend you right now coz we feel like this might be a fluke and you won't make it thru the entire season next year lol. personally i'm not a big fan of PA so far.. he has basically done nothing with the club up to this point.. i guess i'll give him the summer before having an opinion on him.. but if the team mostly remains the same mostly the core and defense.. and he got rid of Boudreau just for the sake of bringing in his own coach and the team struggles out of the gate.. i think the fans will sour on the management pretty quick.

PA was hired just to be a puppet for JR. Pretty obvious and as someone who has friends in Pittsburgh who saw first-hand some of the terrible moves JR made the last couple of years and celebrated him retiring I'm a little worried about the direction of this club 

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yes thank you for jumping into the conversation in the middle and removing all context about the original discussion. As I have said repeatedly, Demko is a very good goalie and the stats discussed were not intended to suggest otherwise.

lol you literally said he's very good but he's not responsible for half ofthe wins.. so put in any joe blow in there as long as he plays avg hockey the canucks would be around the same or maybe only slightly worse. demko might not be shesterkin level this year.. but up until march/april where he had fatigue issue and played thru injury later.. his HD sv% was actually better than the goalies u listed behind shesterkin. he literally was the only reason the canucks were even in a playoff race as the team no show to start the game almost every game up until march and he kept them in it till they showed up.. him and shesterkin have the most impact on a teams win than any other goalie out there coz really their team and defense really ain't that good...

[Alienhuggyflow]

3 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

Yes I can agree with 'difference maker'.

 

He is a very good goalie and 100% agree that we need to improve the team so we don't rely on him as much. But we still need him to perform at times when the rest of the team isn't performing as well.

 

I just don't like the rhetoric that the "only" reason we did well with Boudreau was that Demko was amazing. It doesn't ring true. Just look at our last month of games that Demko played. 5 wins, 4 losses. How many of these wins did he steal for us? Maybe the OT win against VGK? That's about it. I'm sure there were other periods through the season where he was the difference maker but he was not the only difference maker on the team.

 

L(OT): VGK 3, VAN 2

W: VAN 5, VGK 1

W: SJS 2, VAN 4

W (OT): VGK 4, VAN 5

W: ARI 1, VAN 7

W: DAL 2, VAN 6

L (SO): OTT 4, VAN 3

L: VAN 3, MIN 6

L: VAN 3, CLG 6 

Agree, the goalie that truly stole games was Shesty on the Rags. 

The team wouldn't be a playoff team without him and as good as Demko was in Jan/Feb there were plenty of stretches where he looked tired mentally or physically but I expect him to be more consistent next season since this was by far the most hockey he's played. 

Petey and JT won as many games especially from March on.

Petey is the X factor for this team and hopefully he can put the past 2 seasons where he struggled early on behind him and play at or close to the level of the last 3 months.

[wai_lai416]

6 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

PA was hired just to be a puppet for JR. Pretty obvious and as someone who has friends in Pittsburgh who saw first-hand some of the terrible moves JR made the last couple of years and celebrated him retiring I'm a little worried about the direction of this club 

i dont think JR is that great of a team builder in carolina or pittsburgh tbh he was good at finding the piece to push the team over the top but not necessary at building a team that's not quite near the top. 

[73 Percent]

15 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont think JR is that great of a team builder in carolina or pittsburgh tbh he was good at finding the piece to push the team over the top but not necessary at building a team that's not quite near the top. 

Yeah honestly Malkin Fleury and Crosby fell into his lap. We don't have any player of that caliber. 

[stawns]

23 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

Agree, the goalie that truly stole games was Shesty on the Rags. 

The team wouldn't be a playoff team without him and as good as Demko was in Jan/Feb there were plenty of stretches where he looked tired mentally or physically but I expect him to be more consistent next season since this was by far the most hockey he's played. 

Petey and JT won as many games especially from March on.

Petey is the X factor for this team and hopefully he can put the past 2 seasons where he struggled early on behind him and play at or close to the level of the last 3 months.

Without demko the Canucks wouid have been a bottom 7 team, at best.  Petey was great, as was Miller, but it was TD who kept them in games

[Ghostsof1915]

16 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I think one of Miller, Myers, or Dickinson get moved, maybe two of them if possible. 

 Will reach out to Miller and Horvat's agents to talk about extensions

 

Doesn't sound like he's into moving Miller or Horvat does it? 

[wai_lai416]

19 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Yeah honestly Malkin Fleury and Crosby fell into his lap. We don't have any player of that caliber. 

ya can add letang to that mix too.. a vezina caliber goalie a top pairing defenseman and prolly 2 top 5 franchise caliber center.