[Rumour] Devils open to trading 2022 1st-round pick

[mll]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

But they already have Hughes and Hischier locked in long term AND 25 mil in cap space opening up next season. They can afford Miller, if they want to. 

But signing him long term is not a smart decision - like it isn't for Vancouver.  Those young players are going to come off their ELCs and they'll need to be able to afford them too.  Miller on a retirement contract is unlikely to bring value as he ages.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by mll

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, mll said:

Teams don't go from bottom of the league to contenders.  Their window will open up in a few years and by then Miller could well be an anchor that will prevent them from adding the pieces that can help them truly contend with the best.  It's exactly the same issue as in Vancouver but their core is even younger.

 

Hall had just won the Hart and had a huge mentoring role on the team which was recognised by management.  They would have kept him on a mid-term deal but weren't looking to get him into his 30s.  Same with Palmieri where they tried short-term.

 

Don't think they are the team that will give a 30+ player a retirement contract. 

 

Hall was worth more in return.

Palmeiri was let go for the same reasons Boeser might be but was older

 

 

Hamilton had just turned 28 and got a retirement contract by the Devils.  They have no real veteran leadership or large money contracts on that forward line while having a quality prospect pool buoyed by wining the lottery for Hischier and then again for Hughes.  They may even win again this year for Wright.

 

They have the cap, the assets and average age of a team looking to add that kind of player Miller is.

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, mll said:

But signing him long term is not a smart decision - like it isn't for Vancouver.  Those young players are going to come off their ELCs and they'll need to be able to afford them too.  Miller on a retirement contract is unlikely to bring value as he ages.

 

can you show me a perfect cap team? I think you're speaking in the theoretical here, as you can rarely ink the perfect deal. 

 

We just have to agree to disagree that Miller wouldn't help them. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

The Devils have a pretty solid team, though.  They have a very strong squad of young forwards who will only get better.  Their defensive core is solid, especially on the right side.  They have even MORE prospects coming up next year (Holtz and Zetterlund), and then MORE guys the year after (Luke Hughes, Stillman, Mukhamdullin).  This team is primed to make serious jumps this year and the next one.  In a way, they look like Colorado a few years ago.

 

But their goaltending is complete trash.  That is really the one thing they need to change if they want a chance to make the playoffs.  Even this year, they would've been a bubble team if they had decent goaltending.  The Devils can take a risk and trade away assets (including that pick) for a good goalie, or maybe try chasing after a free agent.  I expect Ville Husso to get paid - maybe by New Jersey?

Meh, they were a 63 point team. 

 

63 points ...  

 

That's really bad, they have a lot of jumps to take to be a bubble playoff team. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Meh, they were a 63 point team. 

 

63 points ...  

 

That's really bad, they have a lot of jumps to take to be a bubble playoff team. 

25 mil in cap space fills a lot of holes. 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, mll said:

But signing him long term is not a smart decision - like it isn't for Vancouver.  Those young players are going to come off their ELCs and they'll need to be able to afford them too.  Miller on a retirement contract is unlikely to bring value as he ages.

 

The Devils have things vancouver doesn't have though

 

1.  Cap space

2.  Prospects

3.  A need for veteran leadership

 

vs the Canucks that have

 

1.  No cap space

2.  No quality prospects to speak of

3.  A need for futures like mad

 

We have almost everything they need and they have everything we need.  

 

Subban coming off of contract frees up $9 million right now, like right now.  They can trade for Miller, sign him to an $8x8 and still be saving $1 on that contact while also having Severson, Hamilton locked up long term.  Smith, Seigenthaler, Mukhmadhalin, Bahl and Vukojevich on ELCS on that blue line so won't have to splurge or worry.

 

I don't think you're looking at the Devils in the right light for need vs splurge when it comes to caps and assets

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

25 mil in cap space fills a lot of holes. 

Subban out, JT Miller in.  $26 million in cap space.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

25 mil in cap space fills a lot of holes. 

Meh... 

 

Going the UFA route gets you the bad contracts that hamper you in a couple of years. 

 

New Jersey is every armchair GMs dream team with so much potential, picks, and prospects. 

 

While I like their rebuild and they won multiple draft lotteries, they are still a 63 point team.  63 points would stick out like a sore thumb if we didn't have Arizona and Montreal setting the bar so low this year. 

[RakuRaku]

3 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Meh... 

 

Going the UFA route gets you the bad contracts that hamper you in a couple of years. 

 

New Jersey is every armchair GMs dream team with so much potential, picks, and prospects. 

 

While I like their rebuild and they won multiple draft lotteries, they are still a 63 point team.  63 points would stick out like a sore thumb if we didn't have Arizona and Montreal setting the bar so low this year. 

I agree 101%!!!! When did we ever get some real luck with FA signings???

 

The last time we got lucky was Mikael Smauelsson!! he fit like a glove with the Sedins... low cost, high reward!

Then... there was Malhotra... great fit but bad luck with his health...

and.. I don't need to go on with the recent years...

 

There are only a few FA's we should consider this offseason: Deslauriers, Zadorov/Maata, and Burakovsky.... depending on how much cap space we can free up!! I doubt management will wanna do a major revamp... but I'm not optimisitc they will hold on to all 3: Horvat, Miller, Boeser.... 

[Coconuts]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

"It's not a teardown, it'd the selling high move we've rarely ever seen from the Canucks."

 

Exactly! Please do the right thing for once Canucks!

I'd love to see it, JR strikes me as the kind of president who knows when to cut bait. Sometimes making the tough call can set up your future nicely, and maybe even the present.

 

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

Miller is one thing. Two 1sts and a middle 6 F is a good return if you can't resign him to something reasonable. 

 

But I was responding to gurns suggestion of moving Hughes, that. don't understand. 

I wouldn't personally move Hughes, but gurn and I are in agreement that anyone can be available for the right price. Is that price likely to be paid? That's something else entirely.

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Now, see here's the thing.

 

You need to look at the management team of the Devils right now.  Who is it?  Tom Fitzgerald.  As a player he was on teams that were always young but surrounded by veterans or teams that succeeded because of veteran talent.  As an executive in Pittsburgh he watched the Pens succeed endlessly by ensuring their kids were wrapped around protective veteran talent.  As a GM in Jersey he has seen what having an endlessly young team without that veteran talent

 

Now look at the coach.  Lindy Ruff.  Everry single team he's ever coached was successful based on the same kind of makeup.  Young talent, veteran players and hard work.

 

Enter JT Miller.

 

I 100% believe that if the Devils don't move up that Miller could be had for their 5th overall a top prospect and a + because that is exactly what a Ruff coached team looks like, exactly what a Fitzgerald managed team will look like.  The Devils have the cap space, the team and right now no superstar forward contracts on the books.  A Miller to Devils trade makes more sense than a lot of people would genuinely consider and far more likely than Hughes going there for sure.

 

Miller for pick #5 in 2022, Top prospect, random player.

 

Plus, as a bonus.  By the time Hughes is eligible for free agency, the Devils will be in cap hell and his #1 possible destination will be out of the running due to internal cap issues  

I'd be down for that, good post. The Devil's are also in a nice place where outside of Hughes and Hischier they're not committed to too many big dollars up front. They could afford him capwise and assetwise.

 

 

[mll]

37 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Miller is a barely 29 year old top 10 scoring centre/winger in the league averaged out over 3 years.

 

Palmeiri is a right winger who is almost 32 and never broke 60 points, has only trended downwards since.  Never fit long term and wanted $$

Coleman was a 3rd line centre at best and while ok depth.  Was never a quality fit for the Devils long term for the money he wanted.

Hall was a coup for the Devils.  The return from him was amazing when sent to Arizona.  Mercer is a stud, Bahl is a stud.  Keeping Hall was a money pit, that's a buy low sell high win.

 

Miller compared to all of them is a totally different animal.

 

At this stage, the Devils have almost every essential long term item they need in place.   Hischier and Hughes will be a great duo down the middle and are cost controlled for years.  Boqvist, Mercer, McLeod and Bratt are all under decent status until at least the end of next season.  Bratt being the outlier with a monster season this year.  Their D core is well addressed with Subban coming off the books this year and Hamilton being their only large contract on the blue line for 2 years.

 

I know there's reason why historically it looks like Devils management wouldn't do this, but this is exactly like the Hamilton situation in which they had the money, they have the means and have the assets.  Fitzgerald has a history of being in situations like this and I believe this is something that could have merit

Hamilton was 28 and not 30+.  

 

Dellow is their head of analytics.  I just don't see him signing off and ownership apparently wants input from that department.  

 

When Wheeler signed his deal he questioned the signing because of ageing curves of players in their 30s.  He pointed out that teams were regretting giving more than 4 years to anyone at age 31.  Miller will be 30+ at his extension but given his conclusions I just can't see them giving him a retirement contract.  Miller is unlikely to take a 4 year deal, so can't see them giving up assets for someone they are unlikely to agree on an extension with.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by mll

[stawns]

31 minutes ago, shiznak said:

This team needs more young established NHL players, not more hopefuls if we want to compete in the next few years. 

holtz was a ppg player in the AHL as a 20 year old,  He's going to be an impact player in very short order

[stawns]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

I'd package up Bo and Petey too, no point in trying to keep them they'd want out as well, and who could blame them? 

 

We could probably rack up 10 1sts over 3 years (including our own). 

 

I don't actually want to see that, but it would be an interesting thing to watch. Its the asset management wet dream scenario. 

why, you'd trade those three for a huge haul of players who could fit into the lineup now and over the next couple of years.  That would be the definition of retool, not rebuild

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

why, you'd trade those three for a huge haul of players who could fit into the lineup now and over the next couple of years.  That would be the definition of retool, not rebuild

yeah, could be. I guess you'd have to read their reaction to it as a GM and if they wanted to stay, keep them, if not, move them too. 

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

I agree 101%!!!! When did we ever get some real luck with FA signings???

 

The last time we got lucky was Mikael Smauelsson!! he fit like a glove with the Sedins... low cost, high reward!

Then... there was Malhotra... great fit but bad luck with his health...

and.. I don't need to go on with the recent years...

 

There are only a few FA's we should consider this offseason: Deslauriers, Zadorov/Maata, and Burakovsky.... depending on how much cap space we can free up!! I doubt management will wanna do a major revamp... but I'm not optimisitc they will hold on to all 3: Horvat, Miller, Boeser.... 

I hope they take a run at Mikheyev as well, he's a solid bottom 6 player

[mll]

21 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The Devils have things vancouver doesn't have though

 

1.  Cap space

2.  Prospects

3.  A need for veteran leadership

 

vs the Canucks that have

 

1.  No cap space

2.  No quality prospects to speak of

3.  A need for futures like mad

 

We have almost everything they need and they have everything we need.  

 

Subban coming off of contract frees up $9 million right now, like right now.  They can trade for Miller, sign him to an $8x8 and still be saving $1 on that contact while also having Severson, Hamilton locked up long term.  Smith, Seigenthaler, Mukhmadhalin, Bahl and Vukojevich on ELCS on that blue line so won't have to splurge or worry.

 

I don't think you're looking at the Devils in the right light for need vs splurge when it comes to caps and assets

 

There could be players who would be better fits available.  NJD have the playmakers.  The obvious ones seem DeBrincat and Fiala - established players but young enough to fit their core.

 

Chicago rebuilding so DeBrincat could maybe be available - 2nd time he's hit 41 goals in a season.  

Wild without any cap space and Fiala could be a cap casualty with the Wild looking for draft picks.   Top-10 at EV this season (Miller is 18th) after playing the 1st part of the season with marginal NHLers.

 

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, mll said:

Hamilton was 28 and not 30+.  

 

Dellow is their head of analytics.  I just don't see him signing off and ownership apparently wants input from that department.  

 

When Wheeler signed his deal he questioned the signing because of ageing curves of players in their 30s.  He pointed out that teams were regretting giving more than 4 years to anyone at age 31.  Miller will be 30+ at his extension but given his conclusions I just can't see them giving him a retirement contract.  Miller is unlikely to take a 4 year deal, so can't see them giving up assets for someone they are unlikely to agree on an extension with.

 

So you can't see them giving Miller who is 29 right now a 7-8 year contract.  top 10 in overall NHL scoring over 3 averaged out years Miller

 

But they had zero issue at all in giving 41.2 point per season average Dougie Hamilton a $9 million contract while only being 3 months and 4 days younger than JT Miller?

 

I mean I get your argument.  But it doesn't really track that they'd allow an analytics dept to be their end all be all when that same guy would have been the one to sign off on Hall being ejected.  I do get your argument.

 

But for all the reasons I have stated this deal makes a ton of sense for Jersey moving forward.

 

Fitzgerald was a kid on a Piitsburgh team under Lemieux.  Part of a Pitts team that surrounded Crosby with vets to win and succeed as an AGM for 6 years.  He watched Shero do what has been done since he took the job as AGM in Jersey in 2015 and saw the Devils absolutely flounder with youth and no real veteran presence with only one single playoff appearance in that time.

 

So I get your argument, but just because you don't see it; it does make sense.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, mll said:

 

There could be players who would be better fits available.  NJD have the playmakers.  The obvious ones seem DeBrincat and Fiala - established players but young enough to fit their core.

 

Chicago rebuilding so DeBrincat could maybe be available - 2nd time he's hit 41 goals in a season.  

Wild without any cap space and Fiala could be a cap casualty with the Wild looking for draft picks.   Top-10 at EV this season (Miller is 18th) after playing the 1st part of the season with marginal NHLers.

 

Cool. Debrincat.  Awesome Fiala.

 

Where's that solid veteran presence though?

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

43 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Meh, they were a 63 point team. 

 

63 points ...  

 

That's really bad, they have a lot of jumps to take to be a bubble playoff team. 

And they have everything they need to make that jump EXCEPT for a goalie.

 

Honestly, just look at their roster and depth chart and tell me it is not loaded with high-end talent.

[wildcam]

Kevin Fiala 25, 5'10 had 85 points will be on Devils list to trade for before draft ..Fiala RFA will demand over 7 million and Wild will have cap issues with Parise and Suters buyout kicking in next season 12 million-2022-23 - 14 million following 2 seasons....

So 1st rounder #5 2022, Ty Smith, Zacha - will be starting point...