The Current Construction of the Vancouver Canucks

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, Muttley said:

Again, I can't stress enough that we need more sandpaper. Of course I mean mucking it out in the tough areas but I also mean applying physical payback (fighting), when required. Speed is another area where, IMO, we come up a wee bit short. Quinn Hughes, when he retires, Is gonna make a ton of money teaching or even coaching with that beautiful skating of his. More team speed would help us out in the present. Horvat looks good when he does drop the gloves the odd time or even simply takes the policeman role. Luke Schenn does. Myers does, (but always get's the heavier penalty time). At this point, as constructed, the team isn't quite ready for a deep playoff run. Although, I could be full of horse manure having witnessed how Bruce, there it is, Boudreau brought self belief to these guys. 

Your very right, we have lacked "Sandpaper" for decades now. I think any player we accumulate at this point HAS TO HAVE SIZE,SPEED AND GRIT to play with our smaller, skilled players or players who lack at least a bit of Sandpaper. Probably the main reason why we have succeeded in the regular season all these years and not so much in the post season.

[hammertime]

42 minutes ago, Nucklefuts said:

Pick. You wouldn't get a good player. Probly only gets you a 5th round or later with his cap. 

 

I just think his career is almost over.

 

His replacement would bring size and grit, but wouldn't replace his goals.

So Pearson for a 5th and a younger 4th liner making half Pearson 3.25m cap? 

 

How bout LA? Brendan Lemieux 1.6 ish M and a 5th for Pearson? I think its good value...

 

I also think it makes us worse both short and long term.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by hammertime

[Nucklefuts]

39 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

??? His point production has been pretty much the same the entire time he has been with us and his career is almost over? He's 29?

Right now, he is about the only one who brings any kind of size and grit in the top 9.

He is the least of our worries at this point.

Pearson is not gritty, big or intimidating. He is slow, soft and has a good wrist shot. 

 

How many slow 2nd line 20 goal scorers play into their 30s these days?

 

22% of the league is over 30.

 

An older, regressing player making 3.25M on a cash strapped team is a major priority. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nucklefuts

[Nucklefuts]

7 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So Pearson for a 5th and a younger 4th liner making half Pearson 3.25m cap? 

 

How bout LA? Brendan Lemieux 1.6 ish M and a 5th for Pearson? I think its good value...

 

I also think it makes us worse both short and long term.

 

 

What I'm saying i don't think any team wants him. He doesn't upgrade any roster IMO.

 

He is an ok, slow, 2nd line winger with no upside that takes a younger guys spot.

 

Maybe at trade deadline if a contender loses someone to an injury they might want him. 

 

I do like Lemieux for that role though. Great replacement for lammikko or highmore.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nucklefuts

[mll]

6 minutes ago, hammertime said:

So Pearson for a 5th and a younger 4th liner making half Pearson 3.25m cap? 

 

How bout LA? Brendan Lemieux 1.6 ish M and a 5th for Pearson? I think its good value...

 

I also think it makes us worse both short and long term.

 

 

The Kings don't have cap space to take on Pearson.  Also not sure they'd want to block their prospects.  They have several RFAs to extend including Kempe coming off a 35 goal season.  It's not sure whether they will qualify Lemieux.

 

[EdgarM]

20 minutes ago, Nucklefuts said:

Pearson is not gritty, big or intimidating. He is slow, soft and has a good wrist shot. 

 

How many slow 2nd line 20 goal scorers play into their 30s these days?

 

22% of the league is over 30.

 

An older, regressing player making 3.25M on a cash strapped team is a major priority. 

2nd line? has he turned 30 yet(he's 29)? regressing(consistent .5 avg)? Cash strapped? I think we have about 27 million in cap space next year and we have a few million this year + 3.5 LTIR from Ferlund. 

Again he is not ideal but the least of our worries. He is about the only one that can go in the boards and retrieve the puck. He is not the best at it but a lot better then most of the rest on the team. 

I get the feeling you don't like him and that's fine, I just think he is much a priority as you think to get rid of.

 

[Nucklefuts]

6 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

2nd line? has he turned 30 yet(he's 29)? regressing(consistent .5 avg)? Cash strapped? I think we have about 27 million in cap space next year and we have a few million this year + 3.5 LTIR from Ferlund. 

Again he is not ideal but the least of our worries. He is about the only one that can go in the boards and retrieve the puck. He is not the best at it but a lot better then most of the rest on the team. 

I get the feeling you don't like him and that's fine, I just think he is much a priority as you think to get rid of.

 

I told you facts. Career 2nd line wingers over 30 are unheard of. Cogliano is the only one i can think of and he is crazy fast. 

 

I like him fine, he had a good career, he isn't worth keeping because he is not good enough. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nucklefuts

[EdgarM]

17 minutes ago, Nucklefuts said:

I told you facts. Career 2nd line wingers over 30 are unheard of. Cogliano is the only one i can think of and he is crazy fast. 

 

I like him fine, he had a good career, he isn't worth keeping because he is not good enough. 

There are some Wingers his age or older who do pretty good still. Some wingers that age or older of note: Kucherov , Huberdeau , Landeskog , Stone , Tarasenko ,Hall, Panarin ,Kreider, Marchessault , Pacioretty ,P. Kane, Marchand and Ovechkin. Ovechkin being 36-37 and Marchand at 34-35 , I don't think Pearson is quite at the end of the road just yet at 29. 

But again, who really cares at the end of the day when we have bigger fish to fry.

[Nucklefuts]

4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

There are some Wingers his age or older who do pretty good still. Some wingers that age or older of note: Kucherov , Huberdeau , Landeskog , Stone , Tarasenko ,Hall, Panarin ,Kreider, Marchessault , Pacioretty ,P. Kane, Marchand and Ovechkin. Ovechkin being 36-37 and Marchand at 34-35 , I don't think Pearson is quite at the end of the road just yet at 29. 

But again, who really cares at the end of the day when we have bigger fish to fry.

Hahaha dude... look at the people you just listed. Pearson's highest point total wasn't even 50.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nucklefuts

[Canuck Surfer]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

There is this?

 

We'll add at least Kuzmenko! Who is a healthy dose of skill level above Pearson.  And sooome speed.  He plays fast anyway, add's another dynamite puck handler to Petey...

 

Plus Rathbone who add's plenty of skill and speed! We will be faster, one team goal?

 

 

We will be better if only this +! Will push Pearson permanently to our 3rd line?  Pears & Hoglander is a great wing pair for a third line which makes our depth stronger.  Will give us three PMD's down the left side, one for every pair.  If Poolman is not up to snuff; we $2 Mill + his IR to go find another big body on the right side for balanced pairs.  Kuzmenko gives us a godly amount of talented goal scorers on the top two lines. Boeser, Petey, Miller & he are all capable of 30 goals, Garland & Podz twenty.  Plus will join Petey as a superlative puck handling magician. To go with Millers power forward version of it ( a bit clunkier, but hell, he makes things happen!)!

 

It could be worse? 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Moves are pretty obvious IMO, trade Miller after extension, find a taker for Myers, Garland for RHD with term (agreed with Marino), then for Dickinson/ Poolman, either use DiPietro as a sweetener and trade them out, or find a hockey trade (bad contract for bad contract that meets our positional need).  Lastly, target Vegas' lack of cap and get Nick Roy.

Obvious how?  Playstation?   Don't want to pick on anyone but it takes two to tango.   First off a Miller deal in Vancouver is a bad deal to 75% of the league, and a crap deal to 6 teams down South.   53% tax.   His value goes way down as soon as we sign him.   These guys absolutely take this into their bargainings (including Brock just recently).   Why would PIT let Marino go for Garland?   Garland for sure has value but isn't this the same thing as just making a problem to solve a problem they can't just do with Malkins cap?   Like keep Marino and do something else instead.   This seems like a CDC think tank gone haywire.   I've seen all these things suggested a few times.   But it's far from simple. Whatever we do get - i hope it's going to work out.   That's about the best we can expect. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by IBatch

[Phil_314]

Just now, IBatch said:

Obvious how?  Playstation?   Don't want to pick on anyone but it takes two to tango.   First off a Miller deal in Vancouver is a bad deal to 75% of the league, and a crap deal to 6 teams down South.   53% tax.   These guys absolutely take this into their bargainings (including Brock just recently).   Why would PIT let Marino go for Garland?  D

Determining targets can be obvious without having the corresponding means to deliver on those targets.  I think everyone can see who the useful assets are and who are the bloated contracts.  Figuring out what fits exist and what trades to make are another topic altogether but based on team needs these moves could be rationalized, if not predicted (e.g. Miller probably fits in WSH/ PHI/ BOS... etc.)

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Determining targets can be obvious without having the corresponding means to deliver on those targets.  I think everyone can see who the useful assets are and who are the bloated contracts.  Figuring out what fits exist and what trades to make are another topic altogether but based on team needs these moves could be rationalized, if not predicted (e.g. Miller probably fits in WSH/ PHI/ BOS... etc.)

Sorry i hit reply before i was done ... Miller also fits in COL.   For a repeat.  And other teams are interested in him.  TO and NYR as well along with NJ.   Hockey rarely follows a script. So expect the unexpected.   How many "moves" has anyone predicted since the CDC came to be?   A very tiny percentage. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by IBatch

[ilduce39]

7 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

How do they get out of this massive hole Jim Benning created?

 

1. The draft picks (first round picks and second round picks which were traded away are gone. This has a significant adverse impact on the prospect pool. These picks are gone.

 

2. Benning era put the organization in awful situation in terms of cap space. Signings like Myers and Ekman Larsson proved to be bad contracts and Jim Rutherford and Patrick Allvin know that both contracts are untradeable.

 

3. Prospect pool is thin. Lots of propects didn't make it to the big stage. Second round picks for Gadjovich and Lind turned out to be useless. Woo, who was drafted in 2018 in the second round still playing in the AHL. Madden traded away together with a second round pick for a very limited number of games from Toffoli.

 

4. The fact that a player like Tanner Pearson has been playing in the top six is quite telling.

 

What needs to be done? - in this order -

 

1. top priority for additions to the roster should be the character / the personality of a player

2. Bruce and his team need to establish the right culture to make that the team plays the right way.

3. Create cap space

4. sign a legitimate top 4 D-Man for the right side

5. add goaltending depth

6. hire the best development coach being available

 

Several months ago I posted in the thread "leadership" that leadership is about asking the right questions. Asking the right questions will lead Jim and Patrick to one of the root causes for this fXXXing disaster: the impatience of ownership. Benning has been taken lots of shortcuts to build a contender, but miserably failed to do so.

getting out of this hole will take at least two years.

God, what a bunch of dramatic nonsense.  
 

Current management aren’t acting like they took over a “disaster.”  They have a high end young core who spent the post-Green era playing at a playoff level.  
 

The assets returned for the firsts they gave up are of equal or greater value than the draft picks. They have a guy in Miller to make a decision on who’s looking a lot more valuable than the late 1st and 3rd we gave up to get him. Garland on a 5 mil deal can also be moved if you want to get younger.  Or you keep them and have two great players.  There’s other options to balance off the prospect pool. 
 

The contract “problems” aren’t much to write about. From what I’ve read at worst Myers will be tradable next year at a profit. OEL is about to turn 31, which is fine for a D man. In two years they could be contenders.. not out of whatever “hole” you’re referencing. 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, Nucklefuts said:

Hahaha dude... look at the people you just listed. Pearson's highest point total wasn't even 50.

Oh man you mean I didn't pick the right "over the hill" 30 year old, or older, wingers for you? Dude! my bad. 

Pearson's salary for a .5 pt guy is pretty good for 3 million. For 2 more years to take him to the "over the hill" age of 31.

Your going way off base to your original statement of 30 year old wingers being pretty much done and have no place in the NHL. 

You said:

"How many slow 2nd line 20 goal scorers play into their 30s these days?" and "I told you facts. Career 2nd line wingers over 30 are unheard of. Cogliano is the only one i can think of and he is crazy fast. "

Once again, I really don't care if we move him or keep him but we have bigger issues to contend with on this team.

 

 

[hammertime]

4 hours ago, Nucklefuts said:

What I'm saying i don't think any team wants him. He doesn't upgrade any roster IMO.

 

He is an ok, slow, 2nd line winger with no upside that takes a younger guys spot.

 

Maybe at trade deadline if a contender loses someone to an injury they might want him. 

 

I do like Lemieux for that role though. Great replacement for lammikko or highmore.

I wasn't aware Pearson was in a younger guys spot? Who? Lockwood? Klim? 

[rawkdrummer]

Benning was to be under Linden's watch.

Don't blame Benning, blame ownership.

Edited July 3, 2022 by rawkdrummer

[Cromeslab]

21 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

If you can move Miller for improvement on D you do it imo Beoser too

[Cromeslab]

If we can somehow fit all 3 of Bo,JT,and Petey I’m fine with that too

[Nucklefuts]

8 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Oh man you mean I didn't pick the right "over the hill" 30 year old, or older, wingers for you? Dude! my bad. 

Pearson's salary for a .5 pt guy is pretty good for 3 million. For 2 more years to take him to the "over the hill" age of 31.

Your going way off base to your original statement of 30 year old wingers being pretty much done and have no place in the NHL. 

You said:

"How many slow 2nd line 20 goal scorers play into their 30s these days?" and "I told you facts. Career 2nd line wingers over 30 are unheard of. Cogliano is the only one i can think of and he is crazy fast. "

Once again, I really don't care if we move him or keep him but we have bigger issues to contend with on this team.

 

 

Sure I'll play along. 

 

Which one of those players you named peaked at under 50 points and only played on the second line let alone second pp unit?