(discussion) With stats/facts to back it up, explain where you think our d group ranks.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Pretty sure Horvat was picked 9th OA so are we including top 10 picks or not? 

 

Youre not making any sense. You also don't really have a point as far as I can tell. Benning drafted NHL players with his late 1sts and later round picks Gillis did not. Thats sorta where the conversation ends. Who cares where they are now if they were traded or exposed in the expansion or "impact nhl players" thats all 2ndary. It's pretty cut and dry. NHL players > Not NHL players. 

U literally said every single one of Gillis picks. So picking nhl players to play for another team while getting nothing for return is a plus for benning? Ok. He drafted 1 player with his late 1st that the fans want to run out of town and probably still want to dump in a trade right now. Where are all his late pick success outside of Demko? I don’t see any. Everyone of them is all hype. Until they become a regular they are exactly what they are prospects. But u know every single prospect of ours are apparent superstar in the making. Rathbone is the next Hughes despite looking lost in the nhl in his limited game last season. Karlsson broke EP shl record therefore he’s gonna be just as good. 
 

u want to compare Gillis and benning drafting? Ok benning avg 2nd round picks are in the mid 50s benning avg 2nd round picks are in the early 30s prolly. Less than 25% of 2nd rounder makes it to the nhl and majority of them are early 2nd. Less than 5% makes it in the 50+. 
 

gillis draft record is not great but stick any gm in there prolly not much difference based on where they were picking. Benning drafting people love to praise but really his drafting record is atrocious based on where he was picking on average in the first 2 rounds 

[hammertime]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

U literally said every single one of Gillis picks. So picking nhl players to play for another team while getting nothing for return is a plus for benning? Ok. He drafted 1 player with his late 1st that the fans want to run out of town and probably still want to dump in a trade right now. Where are all his late pick success outside of Demko? I don’t see any. Everyone of them is all hype. Until they become a regular they are exactly what they are prospects. But u know every single prospect of ours are apparent superstar in the making. Rathbone is the next Hughes despite looking lost in the nhl in his limited game last season. Karlsson broke EP shl record therefore he’s gonna be just as good. 
 

u want to compare Gillis and benning drafting? Ok benning avg 2nd round picks are in the mid 50s benning avg 2nd round picks are in the early 30s prolly. Less than 25% of 2nd rounder makes it to the nhl and majority of them are early 2nd. Less than 5% makes it in the 50+. 
 

gillis draft record is not great but stick any gm in there prolly not much difference based on where they were picking. Benning drafting people love to praise but really his drafting record is atrocious based on where he was picking on average in the first 2 rounds 

I get it you don't like Benning thats fine but your argument is weak. There are plenty of other areas to attack Benning. One thing is true considering the amount of picks he traded away we did very well on the picks we had. Thats ok to admit you can still hate him. I'm not here to white knight for JB. 

 

 

 

 

[Rindiculous]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:18 AM, DSVII said:

I think ELCs do and should count, building through the draft is an option, as we did it with Hughes but we didn't take advantage of it, the benefits of his savings was outweighed by Roussel/Beagle/Loui. 

 

If you can get an ELC from your draft (dare I say, Elias Pettersson) who can play top 4 minutes in your competitive window. That's huge and a feather in the cap of any GM

 

Underpaid/Overpaid refer to a decision made my a GM/player, not a legal rule written in the NHL/NHLPA agreement.  If you have to grab at straws like ELC's to find defencemen under that supposed 'market value' bar, the people who set that 'market value' bar are completely delusional.

[iceman64]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:54 AM, hammertime said:

Let's put this in perspective. Did Gillis build that team? Na Burke did. Was Burke a great GM heck no he was ham fisted brutish and arrogant. But he did kknow a hockey player when he saw one. 

 

Burke draft history for the NUX.

 

Obviously Dank n Hank.

 First round - Bryan Allen - 519 games, 104 points

Second round - Artem Chubarov - 228 games, 58 points

Third round - Jarkko Ruutu - 652 games, 142 points

First round - R.J. Umberger - 474 games, 274 points

Fifth round - Kevin Bieksa - 347 games, 147 points

First round - Ryan Kesler - 484 games, 288 points

 

Ill be the first to admit the Canucks weren't that great under Burke or his Crony No Nutz 

 

Gillis couldn't draft his way out of a paper bag but he did now how to put the touches on a decent team and turn them into an elite team. See where I'm going........

 

Benning was ham fisted and didn't know the first thing about how to run a team. But he's got.

Pete Hughes Podkolzin Brock  Hoglander 

and Miller for a late 1st (shakir mukhamadullin and a 3rd) to hang his hat on. 

 

I also personally don't hate the OEL Garland trade and don't think much of Dylan Guenther.

 

Hopefully JR/PA can pull a Gillis and tune the finer points of Bennings team into a true contender.

 

Hopefully history and canucks fans will remember JB for his successes and not his failures as he did a lot of good in his tenure and got hung for his mistakes many of which were at the direct hand of ownerships orders. 

 

 

 

 

I guess you weren't watching what happened to the roster that went toe to toe with the B's.. 

 That team was not only broken physically but even worse, in their heads and that carried with us until the last Gillis acquisition's were off the books that each time reminded me of where we were with no depth that we needed to win that series and if the B's had started game 1 of getting woken up as in Raffe Torres, we would have got swept. They owned us after that hit and we knew it. 

 The only team identity we had was toxic broken laden with lots of long terms that screwed us right down to Tanev and Edler who spend long stretches of injury time that we lost a lot of games because we had no depth which made things even worse... 

 After the news of Gillis gone, I thought to myself, I sure feel sorry for whoever takes over this broken shi t show, I still respect JB for trying because I tell you what.. if you had offered me that job back then, I'd have to you to f off in 10 different ways from Sunday and where to shove it after that. 

 I'm amazed we're even this far, it was 3 years ago we were pegged to be the last in the league BUT in the bubble we nearly take down the blues who won the Stanley the season before and last year's roster was better than that -Green who couldn't keep it simple but if he did we're in the playoffs as promised 

 Yes you can argue Demko in the bubble but I'd counter he did what he was paid to do. He just rocked the show doing it. 

 At the end of the day we're a lot better than last year and still not done and building depth for a change because we CAN and not forces to trade for roster players.

 Not bad!!

 

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:14 AM, Dazzle said:

This was a major problem before Benning arrived. The previous bozo before Benning couldn't draft a single defenseman or goaltender. Benning, while flawed, had successfully drafted several good picks for defenseman, which includes Hughes and Rathbone, with Woo probably going to make the team at some point. When good players make the team, which we have several of them in the roster, it is a bad observation to say it is a "completely empty" pipeline. Lmfao.

What has Woo shown you to say he is probably going to make it?  
He was dressed as a forward to end the season.  Lol!  
He isn’t good enough to play D in the AHL. 
Sorry to say, he will not be making the NHL.  
He is a bust.  
The pipeline is bone dry 

[Fred65]

3 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

What has Woo shown you to say he is probably going to make it?  
He was dressed as a forward to end the season.  Lol!  
He isn’t good enough to play D in the AHL. 
Sorry to say, he will not be making the NHL.  
He is a bust.  
The pipeline is bone dry 

He was the subject of over promotion. Regretfully most the sheep go for it again and again 

[Alflives]

Just now, Fred65 said:

He was the subject of over promotion. Regretfully most the sheep go for it again and again 

Romanov was the player drafted immediately after Woo. 

[JM_]

Just now, Alflives said:

Romanov was the player drafted immediately after Woo. 

don't poop on my thread 

 

 

 

 

 

/s

[Fred65]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Romanov was the player drafted immediately after Woo. 

Now he' going to be a player IMO. I was confused why Mtl moved him

[Dazzle]

5 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

What has Woo shown you to say he is probably going to make it?  
He was dressed as a forward to end the season.  Lol!  
He isn’t good enough to play D in the AHL. 
Sorry to say, he will not be making the NHL.  
He is a bust.  
The pipeline is bone dry 

Woo is 21 years old, bub. You are one of the those people who just ignore evidence to push a preexisting narrative. Ryan Johnson says that Woo was put on forward to make use of Woo's other skills. This was a learning opportunity for the player, in light of the fact that they had too many D. You COULD say that Woo wasn't good enough last year, but Johnson says that Woo will be back on D after this year.

 

So no, he's not a "bust" lmfao.

 

A bust is only a bust when he's out of the league.

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Romanov was the player drafted immediately after Woo. 

Woo was/is a good pick. He's such a physical defenseman, one that Judd Brackett was particularly excited about.

 

I thought people automatically loved Brackett picks, or are we forgetting to do that now, as time passes by? If so, this just means that people aren't even paying attention to anything else about the player himself

[D.B Cooper]

4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Woo is 21 years old, bub. You are one of the those people who just ignore evidence to push a preexisting narrative. Ryan Johnson says that Woo was put on forward to make use of Woo's other skills. This was a learning opportunity for the player, in light of the fact that they had too many D. You COULD say that Woo wasn't good enough last year, but Johnson says that Woo will be back on D after this year.

 

So no, he's not a "bust" lmfao.

 

A bust is only a bust when he's out of the league.

What pre existing narrative are you talking about?   
It was very obvious that Jett had a decline this year.  
RJ was trying to not destroy the kids confidence through the media.  
Truth is, Jett wasn’t even a top 7 dman by the end of the season.  
 

Sure he is only 21, but he isn’t trending in the right direction, and was a long shot to begin with.   

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

What pre existing narrative are you talking about?   
It was very obvious that Jett had a decline this year.  
RJ was trying to not destroy the kids confidence through the media.  
Truth is, Jett wasn’t even a top 7 dman by the end of the season.  
 

Sure he is only 21, but he isn’t trending in the right direction, and was a long shot to begin with.   

You have a bias on the kid. You're ignoring the fact that he's 21 and defensemen take a long time to develop.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Now he' going to be a player IMO. I was confused why Mtl moved him

Same reason the Habs moved Sergachev.  Dumbos. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Woo was/is a good pick. He's such a physical defenseman, one that Judd Brackett was particularly excited about.

 

I thought people automatically loved Brackett picks, or are we forgetting to do that now, as time passes by? If so, this just means that people aren't even paying attention to anything else about the player himself

Just think about the trade value lost by Benning not taking Tkatchuk and Romanov.  The Woo mistake is fine.  It’s the second round.  But not taking Tkatchuk was a clear Benning “super scout” move.  He saw OJ in one tournament and felt his “scouting eye” superseded the years of evaluating done by the scouting department.  Thank goodness we have good management again, who keep their scouts out of the things they don’t have the expertise.  

[Dazzle]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Just think about the trade value lost by Benning not taking Tkatchuk and Romanov.  The Woo mistake is fine.  It’s the second round.  But not taking Tkatchuk was a clear Benning “super scout” move.  He saw OJ in one tournament and felt his “scouting eye” superseded the years of evaluating done by the scouting department.  Thank goodness we have good management again, who keep their scouts out of the things they don’t have the expertise.  

Way too soon to make this judgement. Hard to take you seriously, so I don't think anyone does.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

Way too soon to make this judgement. Hard to take you seriously, so I don't think anyone does.

Gillis our most successful era. Fact 

Benning our worst era. Fact 

JR/Allvin will be a lot more like Gills, than Benning.  Opinion. 

 

 

[Viper007]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gillis our most successful era. Fact 

Benning our worst era. Fact 

JR/Allvin will be a lot more like Gills, than Benning.  Opinion. 

 

 

Benning our worst era.  Is Not Fact.  We've had way worse eras.

[DSVII]

23 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Benning our worst era.  Is Not Fact.  We've had way worse eras.

Depends what kind of flavor of worse you prefer. The gruesome train wreck or slow burning dumpster fire. Sharp straight decline, or a long apathetic slog of mediocrity.

 

Which ones would you rank worse out of curiosity?

 

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2021/12/22/22802321/ranking-darkest-eras-vancouver-canucks-history

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Depends what kind of flavor of worse you prefer. The gruesome train wreck or slow burning dumpster fire. Sharp straight decline, or a long apathetic slog of mediocrity.

 

Which ones would you rank worse out of curiosity?

 

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2021/12/22/22802321/ranking-darkest-eras-vancouver-canucks-history

8 years of Benning digging a really big hole.  How many years will it take competent management (which I believe the new group to be) to get us out of that hole?  The “Benning effect” could actually last as long as 10 or more years.  The guy will very likely be responsible for killing a decade for a our team.  That’s an entire generation of young fans lost.