2023 NHL Entry Draft

[R3aL]

1 hour ago, MikeyD said:

Don't say that please. I have the same feeling. 

 

Edit for clarity: love Simashev but unless the worst draft board possibly happens we should have Benson or Moore available at 11 and those players are a tier above those players. Simashev is a tier above Willander. 

I still don’t understand even with the edit ahah 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I agree with you. I like ASP just not for us.

 

For me it's Danielson, ASP & to a lesser extent Moore. Not as crazy about those guys for us.

 

 

I'm actually coming around on Moore and Danielson. Probably the best true Centers at our range. Danielson may have untapped offensive talent and Moore does so many things well including focus, dedication to defending, good size, extreme physical traits, killer speed and attention to detail. Both appear to be students of the game and I like that for transferability. Outside of Reinbacher I'am finding the D a little underwhelming ... although just watched some of Simashev's skating again, so tantalizing.

[Bure_Pavel]

31 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

I didn't think he drove the play that much. I thought he played well and was deserved of pushing up my rankings with how well he did but I also think he was the beneficiary of plays coming to him. I liked his tenacity to get the puck back but I really just didn't see in the 4 games I watched him go out and be the guy for zone entries, setting up his teammates endlessly, etc .

 

If you look at all of his points, a third of them were well earned and then the rest were just right place right time scenarios (to his credit, he had good finish). I didn't think he controlled the puck enough and showed enough for me to be impressed enough with him. Too many junior level plays (which is why he did poorly against men) for my liking.

 

But I could be wrong! He could develop really well. The kid has the tools. I just don't see him controlling the game enough to be a game breaking player. He's a complementary piece for me. I would prefer to avoid that at 11. At the U18's if I had only seen that and no other footage I'd probably rank him around Nate Danielson level, however having seen his play with men and how ineffective he can be I really want to avoid him.

 

But as stated, he has the tools but the play driving, thinking of the game and his very average skating will require a lot of development and an absolute bullseye for him to ever become a top line guy that doesn't need insulation.

 

I called it when we traded for Eriksson that his point production was a result of his linemates and I see too many comparisons (albeit he does things better than Eriksson such as passing and his motor is better) for me to be comfortable with him as a prospect. It's a wild assumption, based on everybody having him in the top 10 but I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

 

For context: 

First point: lucky break to get the puck back in this situation, 2nd point (goal) I think he opens up well to receive a pass here but ultimately gets lucky off a bounce off a wall and has a wide open net to knock the puck into, 3rd point is an assist that's a good smart pass but won't consistently work at the NHL level as this play is typically cut off but kudos to taking advantage of what's available and recognizing two guys didn't have sticks tied up as options to force to, next point is a secondary assist that his teammate did an extremely good job of handling and making a nice play, next play is a good goal where he opens up but then relies on his teammates to open up the lane for him to get a shot off to score, next goal shows his great ability to get his shot off in the slot, next goal is again another slot pass that comes to him that he scores, next goal the guy that's marking him just gives up and turns his controller off and skates behind the net for some reason, next point is empty net primary assist on a breakout pass, this next goal is absolutely beautiful and what I want to see more of where he displays amazing patience and creates his own goal as opposed to relying on his teammates to get him the puck in the slot (this is controlling the game in my opinion), next point is a primary assist that a defender utilizes a good screen on (nothing special), and then finally a really nice primary assist that is worthy of praise.

 

So about a third of the points I see as non-routine plays that would require a good prospect to complete. The other 2/3rds any prospect in the first 5 rounds could have earned given the spot. The guy is good in the slot, but he made 2-3 remarkable plays and I don't think that constitutes as to the praise he's getting for the U18's this year, especially considering how bad the defense and goaltending is at these tournaments. 

 

The slot is the hardest area of the ice to get to in the NHL and hardest to get open for. He generates nearly all his offense from there. He's not a guy that does a lot of cutting, east/west plays that show consistent creativity, he's not displaying an elite level skillet with his hands, he's just a guy really effective at scoring from the slot and that launches him wayyyyy down my board when it comes to NHL projection. He's not dynamic enough as a goal scorer in my opinion. He's not a good enough playmaker because he's so extremely inconsistent with his vision. I think his defense is his best attribute, but I also think against men his anticipation skills really show themselves. I absolutely love his compete for loose pucks though. I don't think he takes the right angles all of the time but that can be coached. Tenacity can't be coached 95% of the time.

 

I may be over critiquing but I feel solid enough in my assessment that I feel I have a real solid understanding as to why he can't put up points against men. My eye test passed the analytics test and those aligned. Like I said, has the tools but is missing too many things such as being dynamic, being creative, having the play driving, and just inconsistencies in other areas for me to be sold on him as a top 10 guy like everybody else has him. I literally think people are insane for projecting him that high. 

 

Edit for further context: here is Louie Eriksson's highlight package of every goal from the season we picked him up after. Looks eerily similar right?

 

https://youtu.be/6OH9lxYFPpA

His puck control is off the charts and he is a big boy (+200 lbs and turned 18 two weeks ago) I dont think the LE comparison is warranted especially Canucks version of LE.  

[MikeyD]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

His puck control is off the charts and he is a big boy (+200 lbs and turned 18 two weeks ago) I dont think the LE comparison is warranted especially Canucks version of LE.  

I disagree. I think the way he controls the puck puts himself into poor situations too often. Can be protect the puck? Yes. Does he do it in a way that enhances his offense more often than not? I don't think so.

 

Agree to disagree. The same way people said Podkolzin was an engine before we drafted him and that he's an Energizer bunny I thought was very hyperbolic is the same way I view people who claim Dvorsky's puck control is elite. He's not a puck entry beast (most of this is due to his skating inefficiency to be fair). He has hands, but he doesn't use them enough. He's not a guy who drives inside lanes super often. He's very perimeter with the puck and becomes a guy that just heads to the slot away from the puck. 

 

But alas, we can agree to disagree. Why do you think he wasn't putting up points against men? I'd like to hear your opinion on this. 

[Nucker 67]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I'm actually coming around on Moore and Danielson. Probably the best true Centers at our range. Danielson may have untapped offensive talent and Moore does so many things well including focus, dedication to defending, good size, extreme physical traits, killer speed and attention to detail. Both appear to be students of the game and I like that for transferability. Outside of Reinbacher I'am finding the D a little underwhelming ... although just watched some of Simashev's skating again, so tantalizing.

Moore seemed underwhelming at the U18s. I recall a whole lot of Smith, Leonard and Perreault though. They say Moore could be the fastest skater in the draft, but Tyler Motte is really fast too. Do the Canucks want to draft a Motte-like player at #11?  Moore need to show more IMO. 

 

Canucks need a Future Star

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Bure_Pavel]

12 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

I disagree. I think the way he controls the puck puts himself into poor situations too often. Can be protect the puck? Yes. Does he do it in a way that enhances his offense more often than not? I don't think so.

 

Agree to disagree. The same way people said Podkolzin was an engine before we drafted him and that he's an Energizer bunny I thought was very hyperbolic is the same way I view people who claim Dvorsky's puck control is elite. He's not a puck entry beast (most of this is due to his skating inefficiency to be fair). He has hands, but he doesn't use them enough. He's not a guy who drives inside lanes super often. He's very perimeter with the puck and becomes a guy that just heads to the slot away from the puck. 

 

But alas, we can agree to disagree. Why do you think he wasn't putting up points against men? I'd like to hear your opinion on this. 

Its a tough pro league and as a 17 year old wasn't gift wrapped opportunities to put up big numbers. He performed exceptionally against U20 competition though.     

Edited June 28, 2023 by Bure_Pavel

[spook007]

24 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

JR seems like he meant business when he said that he was going to talk less.  PA is like the Wayne Gretzky of answering questions without saying anything.  I'm never really surprised when Canucks news is quiet.  They don't strike me as "sit on their hands" type on people.  I'm sure things are happening behind the scenes.

Its actually refreshing that the ship isn't leaking...

 

You wanna do deals, you keep the conversations to yourself... GM would hate to have their thought and plans spread around the NHL...

Poker is the name of the game.

 

[spook007]

29 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

One thing that is certain we will be told ( who ever we select ) we had him rate higher, we're surprised he was still there at 11th spot. 

50c says you're on the money 

[Smashian Kassian]

23 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I'm actually coming around on Moore and Danielson. Probably the best true Centers at our range. Danielson may have untapped offensive talent and Moore does so many things well including focus, dedication to defending, good size, extreme physical traits, killer speed and attention to detail. Both appear to be students of the game and I like that for transferability. Outside of Reinbacher I'am finding the D a little underwhelming ... although just watched some of Simashev's skating again, so tantalizing.

 

I do like Moore. Out of the 2 I like him Moore (ha!). But even then I think we could get a higher upside player. He'll be a very valuable player with his speed & compete but not sold on him being a 2A center either.

 

Willander isn't sexy but he's just a very good defenseman that protects to be a high IQ #2/3 imo that plays against top players & can handle the puck. Has a physical edge too. Id take it over a middle 6/2B center given how important these players are & how difficult they are to acquire.

 

I agree Simashev is tantalizing. Size, speed & so rangey. He might be the best D in the draft in time. 

 

[theo5789]

45 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Wood grew 9 inches in the last 2.5 years.

Edited June 28, 2023 by theo5789

[Filthymitts32]

Excuse my negligence but I was very dissatisfied with picking 11 and didn't pay any attention to the prospects this year. Now that the day has come, it's sucked me back in... So who are they taking? The team has holes everywhere and can improve in alot of areas, but speed and physicality with skill mixed in has got be at the top of the list. Dman or centre, I'm not picky, both need to improve drastically. 

[HighOnHockey]

10 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Its a tough pro league and as a 17 year old wasn't gift wrapped opportunities to put up big numbers. He performed exceptionally against U20 competition though.     

His 17 year old season reminds me so much of Alex Holtz'. In junior both were always the go-to guy counted on to carry the puck and make plays, but it's not going to be their greatest strengths in the long run. As Hammer and this other fellow have been saying, Dvorsky has a tendency to over-handle the puck, and Holtz was the same way at this age. Once they got to pro and were forced to start relying on their play away from the puck, it took some adjustment and their numbers suffered, but those who watched them at that level could see that their games were actually a lot more translatable than they looked in junior.

 

The biggest thing I disagree with this guy about is that off the puck he just heads to the slot. I love the way Dvorsky supports the puck and skates intelligent routes. But most fans haven't had a chance to see much of this because they've mostly watch him at the junior level when he always has the puck.

[MikeyD]

46 minutes ago, R3aL said:

I still don’t understand even with the edit ahah 

I just think Simashev is better than the 3 you had listed lol

[Heretic]

8 minutes ago, Filthymitts32 said:

Excuse my negligence but I was very dissatisfied with picking 11 and didn't pay any attention to the prospects this year. Now that the day has come, it's sucked me back in... So who are they taking? The team has holes everywhere and can improve in alot of areas, but speed and physicality with skill mixed in has got be at the top of the list. Dman or centre, I'm not picky, both need to improve drastically. 

Excuse my pessimism, but it doesn't really matter, whomever they pick will not help us make the playoffs next season.  

The Canucks are a mediocre team with a mediocre first round pick... 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

As we get closer to the draft, I feel we will select between Danielson, Willander or Simashev unless Benson or Reinbacher falls out of top 10.

[MikeyD]

26 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Its a tough pro league and as a 17 year old wasn't gift wrapped opportunities to put up big numbers. He performed exceptionally against U20 competition though.     

I will give you that. Do you think that deserves top ten consideration though? Most guys in the top 10 I feel would do well against older talent. 

[Nucker 67]

2 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

As we get closer to the draft, I feel we will select between Danielson, Willander or Simashev unless Benson or Reinbacher falls out of top 10.

Could be a bluff, but it doesn't sound like they're keen on Reinbacher or any of the USNDT guys.

[Ghostsof1915]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

Wood grew 9 inches in the last 2.5 years.

And I says "Pardon?"

 

[MikeyD]

1 hour ago, McBackup said:

I can’t help myself from peeking at any new trades that might have come down. But you’re right I should turn my wifi off so I don’t have distractions.

You're gonna end up dumb like the rest of us!!!!