[RUMOUR] Vancouver and Columbus in trade talks

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

King, 

 

so many choices for worst GM ever.. I don’t even know if Gillis was the worst drafting and development GM.. it’s that bad.

 

We had a GM trade away Cam Neely.

 

This team had been to the SCF three times.  Gillis was arrogant and failed to adjust his coach when needed.  
 

he had one formula… and it almost won it all.  
 

But he borrowed or adapted another’s formula and he spent way too many futures on winning it all.

 

But he almost pulled it off.

 

I still think, had Danny clocked the Rat and or let go of his inner Viking, this team would have won the cup in the one play.

 

That push back against a bully is what failed our team.  Injury’s made it up to the stars to fight too.

 

Gillis overplayed and so did JB.

 

they both failed to remove coaches who did not meet the goals of the club.

 

Gillis was especially late in moving out players after the team didn’t make it and AV also failed to clinch the deal.

 

so why did take the owner firing both to start real changes?

 

Love the young core.

 

Think that the historical issue of effect RHD d men needs to be fixed.

 

that is it.

 

draft at least one player capable of playing RHD each draft in the first 4 rounds.

 

One Center each draft in the first 4 rounds.

 

One goalie each draft that is a target of our goalie guru. 
 

For five years.

 

easy.

 

not rocket science and you take care of this by making it happen and without fail. 
 

can’t get centers and RHD into the system if you never draft them.  Simple.  
 

I cringe a little when people bring up Neely.  Not because it still stings, but because it was actually a very solid trade for Van at the time.  In fact, most people thought Van won that trade in a big way when it happened.  Looking at trades in hindsight is a fools errand, imo. 

[King Heffy]

37 minutes ago, combover said:

Nonis lololololololololilol.

 

louie was dropped in his lap by another incompetent idiot. 
Are  you talking about the same nonis that drafted Patrick white 

dave bonus was basically Brian burkes coat tails.

gillis turned one of the worst draft picks ever into a solid important d for our cup run, he inherited team and he finished putting it together if he didn’t do anything why did nonis get fired why was burke not resigned… 

 

gillis wasnt perfect but he was far superior to nonis and to no plan dim jim Benning who in 8 season couldn’t get his head out of his own ass. 

Only a Canucks fan would think the gm during the most successful period in franchise history sucks and the the gm during the worst period in franchise history did a good job.lolololololololol. 
 

Nonis got fired because he wasn't willing to trade Kesler and Edler for a rental of Brad Richards.

[Harold Drunken]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Nonis got fired because he wasn't willing to trade Kesler and Edler for a rental of Brad Richards.

I think it was a little more detailed and layered than that lol

Edited November 25, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[BC_Hawk]

50 minutes ago, combover said:

Nonis lololololololololilol.

 

louie was dropped in his lap by another incompetent idiot. 
Are  you talking about the same nonis that drafted Patrick white 

dave bonus was basically Brian burkes coat tails.

gillis turned one of the worst draft picks ever into a solid important d for our cup run, he inherited team and he finished putting it together if he didn’t do anything why did nonis get fired why was burke not resigned… 

 

gillis wasnt perfect but he was far superior to nonis and to no plan dim jim Benning who in 8 season couldn’t get his head out of his own ass. 

Only a Canucks fan would think the gm during the most successful period in franchise history sucks and the the gm during the worst period in franchise history did a good job.lolololololololol. 
 

Think Gillis and JB would have made a very good duo. One had the contract and team building savvy, and the other good at player evaluation. Add Gilman to work the cap, and we would have been set in my opinion. My only gripe with Gillis is he wasn't part of the old boys club (having been an agent prior) and had trouble getting trades done. Whether that was him getting shunned or always wanting to win trades, that was his Achilles heel.

[Alflives]

26 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Nonis got fired because he wasn't willing to trade Kesler and Edler for a rental of Brad Richards.

Yup.  Nonis wouldn't give up the future in hopes to "win now" which has always been the directive from our owner to management.  I think Burke got fired because he told the new owner to go stuff it.  No way Burke would put up with the owner directing how he should build out a team.  

[Ghostsof1915]

26 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said:

I think it was a little more detailed and layered than that lol

But that doesn't fit the hate ownership narrative. I'm ok with the Aqua's selling the team, but it has to be someone with deep pockets and roots in the community.

There's not a lot of billionaires in this region.

[Harold Drunken]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

But that doesn't fit the hate ownership narrative. I'm ok with the Aqua's selling the team, but it has to be someone with deep pockets and roots in the community.

There's not a lot of billionaires in this region.

There's actually quite a few....Vancouver is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada, I don't think it would be as hard as some think. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think it might be easier to ask who were our best GM's.................Pat Quinn and Brian Burke

 

All the rest pale by comparison

 

But in saying that, it was only Burke that set up a farm team that actually produced

 

IMO, a GM's main and primary goal is to find talent.............aka draft, trade, and UFA

 

But the only one he has the most control over is his drafting, and development (aka coaching and system)

 

Benning failed, and Gillis failed, etc, etc, etc.................and on and on and on!

[Ghostsof1915]

Just now, J.I.A.H.N said:

I think it might be easier to ask who were our best GM's.................Pat Quinn and Brian Burke

 

All the rest pale by comparison

 

But in saying that, it was only Burke that set up a farm team that actually produced

 

IMO, a GM's main and primary goal is to find talent.............aka draft, trade, and UFA

 

But the only one he has the most control over is his drafting, and development (aka coaching and system)

 

Benning failed, and Gillis failed, etc, etc, etc.................and on and on and on!

Shhh...the Gillis fanboys will hear you.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I think it might be easier to ask who were our best GM's.................Pat Quinn and Brian Burke

 

All the rest pale by comparison

 

But in saying that, it was only Burke that set up a farm team that actually produced

 

IMO, a GM's main and primary goal is to find talent.............aka draft, trade, and UFA

 

But the only one he has the most control over is his drafting, and development (aka coaching and system)

 

Benning failed, and Gillis failed, etc, etc, etc.................and on and on and on!

Quinn, Burke worked for previous ownership, who allowed for rebuilding moves.  Aquilini has not allowed anything but "win now".  So it's not really a fair comparison.  

[spook007]

13 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I think it might be easier to ask who were our best GM's.................Pat Quinn and Brian Burke

 

All the rest pale by comparison

 

But in saying that, it was only Burke that set up a farm team that actually produced

 

IMO, a GM's main and primary goal is to find talent.............aka draft, trade, and UFA

 

But the only one he has the most control over is his drafting, and development (aka coaching and system)

 

Benning failed, and Gillis failed, etc, etc, etc.................and on and on and on!

If Canucks had won game 7 in 2011, would you look at it the same way?

 

I'm not particularly a MG 'fan boy', but think he needs a little bit of credit, for getting us that close to the holy grail...

 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I cringe a little when people bring up Neely.  Not because it still stings, but because it was actually a very solid trade for Van at the time.  In fact, most people thought Van won that trade in a big way when it happened.  Looking at trades in hindsight is a fools errand, imo. 

Trades and managers all has to be looked upon in hindsight/history...

 

A lot of GMs a slated at the time, while history shows them to have actually laid the foundations for the future, while some GMs are heralded as the best since sliced bread, while history shows them to be less so...

[J.I.A.H.N]

When ever I think of GM's and success

 

I think of the Rangers GM's Jeff Gordon and Chris Drury, who rebuild the Rags, quickly. Yes, Fox manipulated his destination, which did not hurt, but they did other things, that cemented their rise.

 

The one thing I really liked that was done, was the Drafting of Braden Schneider because they actually moved up to pick him. This is a mini-Brian Burke move, but showed they went after players they wanted. The excuse of well "It was a reach" , does not apply to that type of move, because in fact your pick was lower, but you moved up to a place where he actually deserved to be chosen at.19, by trading the 22nd and 79th pick.

 

Will Schneider end up being a Hall of Famer, probably not, but the Gm felt he wanted a big stay at home Dman, and went out and drafted one. without reaching! We have had multiple chances to do that, with Brandt Clarke being drafted at 8th in 2021, just 1 spot ahead of Dylan Guenther, but we know where that pick went, don't we...........

 

So that was a double whammy

 

This can be a franchise making move or a dud, but so could have the Sedin's, and the move has to be done by a smart savvy GM that knows his Draft personal know their stuff. This year the draft is forward heavy, and our second pick is going to be relatively early, so move a forward along with the second and move up and get the guy you want in a strong draft, or use it to move up and get an earlier 1st........but just don't sit there and wait for the dregs, that 31 other GM's passed on. Aka "I can't believe no one is picking Lind" Benning did.

 

Truly, "IF" Benning really thought he was the best on the board, why did he not move something and go and get him at 27 OA, like he was projected to go at. Just waiting around for the best of the rest is just foolish. And endorsed by 31 other GM's.

[J.I.A.H.N]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Quinn, Burke worked for previous ownership, who allowed for rebuilding moves.  Aquilini has not allowed anything but "win now".  So it's not really a fair comparison.  

Of course it is Alf............referr to my next post for the reasons why

[J.I.A.H.N]

8 minutes ago, spook007 said:

If Canucks had won game 7 in 2011, would you look at it the same way?

 

I'm not particularly a MG 'fan boy', but think he needs a little bit of credit, for getting us that close to the holy grail...

 

Well I agree with you in part Spook, but it was not a full plan. Was he going after 1 try? or building a dynamtsy? Because, I see nothing but veterans aging out afterwards, where as teams like Boston, Tampa, Washington, etc, have had plans to replace players. Was Gillis really going for a one spot try? because there was nothing left on the farm or draft afterwards.

 

Which meant to me, he had no exit plan, and it was not complete. maybe he realized he had a good squad of veterans and no farm behind that, but that only means he did not start his building of the franchise early enough..............but I guess one has to remember the Aqualini factor, and the pressure that brings. I  did like his cutting edge ideas regarding sleep and his acquiring a plane. I think those things helped.

 

Gillis certainly was near the top, but IMHO, not at the same level as the other 2. I actually liked him. But I think Aqualini had him by the short ones. 

 

PS.................I love Aqualini's money, but I hate his perceived interference and/or his GM choices.

 

IMO, Trevor Linden should have been given complete control, and then we would be further ahead, I think????? 

[Pears]

59 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

But that doesn't fit the hate ownership narrative. I'm ok with the Aqua's selling the team, but it has to be someone with deep pockets and roots in the community.

There's not a lot of billionaires in this region.

Kind of why I’m holding out hope Ryan Reynolds spurns Ottawa and buys his home town team 

[Tower102]

21 minutes ago, Pears said:

Kind of why I’m holding out hope Ryan Reynolds spurns Ottawa and buys his home town team 

Ryan Reynolds is only a MINOR buyer for which ever team he goes for. His total net worth is only 150 million, so about 15% of the franchise value and most of that isn't going to be liquid. His invoolvement would be of no consequence to us.

[aGENT]

52 minutes ago, spook007 said:

If Canucks had won game 7 in 2011, would you look at it the same way?

 

I'm not particularly a MG 'fan boy', but think he needs a little bit of credit, for getting us that close to the holy grail...

 

He was "ok". A LOT of that team was built by Burke/Nonis. And for every solid "Ehrhoff" or Malholtra, Gillis had a "Booth" (or broken Ballard) trade.

 

He also completely biffed drafting and developing to extend that run. His wanted rebuild isn't probably needed in 2013 (probably could have had another couple runs with solid ELC contributors, Kesler would have likely hung around a bit longer etc),  with a better farm system and/or kick start that rebuild with some actual pieces to build around.

 

24 minutes ago, Pears said:

Kind of why I’m holding out hope Ryan Reynolds spurns Ottawa and buys his home town team 

A team actually needs to be for sale for someone to buy it. I'm sure he'd love to by the Canucks but you can't force the current owners to sell if they don't want to.

Edited November 25, 2022 by aGENT

[spook007]

25 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well I agree with you in part Spook, but it was not a full plan. Was he going after 1 try? or building a dynamtsy? Because, I see nothing but veterans aging out afterwards, where as teams like Boston, Tampa, Washington, etc, have had plans to replace players. Was Gillis really going for a one spot try? because there was nothing left on the farm or draft afterwards.

 

Which meant to me, he had no exit plan, and it was not complete. maybe he realized he had a good squad of veterans and no farm behind that, but that only means he did not start his building of the franchise early enough..............but I guess one has to remember the Aqualini factor, and the pressure that brings. I  did like his cutting edge ideas regarding sleep and his acquiring a plane. I think those things helped.

 

Gillis certainly was near the top, but IMHO, not at the same level as the other 2. I actually liked him. But I think Aqualini had him by the short ones. 

 

PS.................I love Aqualini's money, but I hate his perceived interference and/or his GM choices.

 

IMO, Trevor Linden should have been given complete control, and then we would be further ahead, I think????? 

Yeah ifs and buts... lots of unknowns. 
If Danny hadn't been concussed leading up to the the play offs in 2012, we would probably jad been close again. 
He was and the rest is history. 
 

Thing is, if Gilles had been allowed to rebuild, when he said a rebuild was needed, and we had done then, what most teams seem to do now a day, we would have been in with great shouts at Matthews and and McD... 

Even a couple Second or 3rd picks could have meant a quicker turn around, than we ended up with? Who knows. 

Its true he didn't leave us much in the coffers, but at the time he said rebuild, there were still value to be had in that squad. 
 

No one single person would have complained and a statue would have been built of Gilles had they won. 

He was good at getting in players at reletively cheap deals, and the tram building was decent. 
If only Kassler could gave had at least 1 better winger....

The club suffered from the MG/ Luingo deal. The most unfair ruling I can remember in sports history. 
A la we din't like you are being smart, so we change the rules retrospectively... 

 

But I was definitely always fondly temember the team Gilles built, even if it left us in a hole afterwards. As you say Jan, the owners should not have interfered and let him start his rebuild at the time. Even before Linden....

 

[spook007]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

He was "ok". A LOT of that team was built by Burke/Nonis. And for every solid "Ehrhoff" or Malholtra, Gillis had a "Booth" (or broken Ballard) trade.

 

He also completely biffed drafting and developing to extend that run. His wanted rebuild isn't probably needed in 2013 (probably could have had another couple runs with solid ELC contributors, Kesler would have likely hung around a bit longer etc),  with a better farm system and/or kick start that rebuild with some actual pieces to build around.

 

A team actually needs to be for sale for someone to buy it. I'm sure he'd love to by the Canucks but you can't force the current owners to sell if they don't want to.

Yes. This things we don't really know. 
I was against the rebuild at the time, and wanted the team to continue. 
In hindsight I feel, I was wrong... the returns would have been good enough to do a fast restart of a rebuild. 
Maybe yes and maybe no about Kessler ) he as well as a fair few others had NTCs in their contracts making it hard to move them, if they were unwilling, but start the rebuild 2 years earlier, and I think, players like Burrows and Hansen could have fetched more than they did. 
And yes I never really understood the Ballard trade. Booth were a stab and I could live with that. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by spook007