[RUMOUR] Vancouver and Columbus in trade talks

[AnthonyG]

7 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Dude, OJ busted out of this club.

 

so many chances and the Covid did a number on him. 
 

Bad pick.  The shear number of nhl D men in the first round of that draft making impacts, and OJ is in the AHL.

 

JB made great picks… so many it’s eye popping.  
 

But OJ, Gaudette etc… aren’t the guys you think got away.  
 

They didn’t make it. 

 

 

I wouldnt say he was given a ton of chances and the one stint he did play 23 games, he was fine. He wasnt a liability, had pretty decent analytics. He was slow to get an opportunity due to injuries and recovering from multiple surgeries.

There was a fair share that had OJ ranked the highest dman, it bounced between him, Serg and Chych, between 5th and 11th. We as an organization desperately needed a dman, the last dman taken by Van in the first round was Luc Bourdon in 2005. Thats 11 years a part and zero first round dmen with potential drafted and developed, its no wonder why our D is our weak point. Not only did COVID do a number on OJ, but the multiple knee and back injuries after being drafted really set him back. He’s only 24 and could still get a shot with an NHL club. The point was, they were prospects, both Gaudette and OJ. Trade chips or possible role players. Gaudette is putting up a ton of goals in the AHL right now, OJ is just under a ppg.

 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

More often than not, OJ was ranked higher than Sergachev and Chychrun. Its not that he was a bad pick, its just unfortunate what happened right after being drafted, much like Bourdon (RIP) there isnt much you can do or see coming ahead. 

 

By no means am I saying they are the ones that got away, they were prospects that are now prospects in another organization. People wonder why we have no prospects… well its because they were either claimed or traded to avoid losing on waivers.
 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I wouldnt say he was given a ton of chances and the one stint he did play 23 games, he was fine. He wasnt a liability, had pretty decent analytics. He was slow to get an opportunity due to injuries and recovering from multiple surgeries.

There was a fair share that had OJ ranked the highest dman, it bounced between him, Serg and Chych, between 5th and 11th. We as an organization desperately needed a dman, the last dman taken by Van in the first round was Luc Bourdon in 2005. Thats 11 years a part and zero first round dmen with potential drafted and developed, its no wonder why our D is our weak point. Not only did COVID do a number on OJ, but the multiple knee and back injuries after being drafted really set him back. He’s only 24 and could still get a shot with an NHL club. The point was, they were prospects, both Gaudette and OJ. Trade chips or possible role players. Gaudette is putting up a ton of goals in the AHL right now, OJ is just under a ppg.

 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

More often than not, OJ was ranked higher than Sergachev and Chychrun. Its not that he was a bad pick, its just unfortunate what happened right after being drafted, much like Bourdon (RIP) there isnt much you can do or see coming ahead. 

 

By no means am I saying they are the ones that got away, they were prospects that are now prospects in another organization. People wonder why we have no prospects… well its because they were either claimed or traded to avoid losing on waivers.
 

We'll never know what oj couod have been had injuries not derailed his development.  He was clearly an elite dman in Jr

[AnthonyG]

7 hours ago, spook007 said:

A few things to mention here...

 

in 99 Zetterberg & vrabata... yep... both scouting has improved immensely since though. Those players drafted so low suggests, that nobody, incl the teams that drafted them, expected this sort of output. 
Its a punt, when you get down in the lower rounds. Even Red Wings passed on Zetterberg 3 times before drafting him. 
(Fun fact Red Wings first pick was in round 4). 

 

Draft position does matter...  you are far more likely to find a sure fire thing in the top 3 than 6-15...

But absolutely agree development matters. JV was thrown in at the derp end far to early, and would likely have benifited from being able to play in the AHL under less limelight first...

OJ was plagued by injuries, so you can't legislate for that neither. 
 

Jensen has done remarkly well in Russia (yes I know its not the NHL), and maybe better development would have done him good. 
Hodgson was a problem between his dad and injury/illness that wasn't found by our doctors. 
Gaunce could probably be better developed

Schroeder, Shinkaruk could maybe have been better developed, but their size amongst others were against them

White... oh dear....

the common denominator here was they were all drafted late in the first round. 
 

You have to be lucky to hit on players once you are past the top 3-4 except for some years that has produced lots of NHL players. 
 

Finding gold in the later rounds is possible, but you need to be lucky as well. There's a reason they don't get picked in the 1st round. 
 

Lots of players doesn't make it. Even at teams that are comsidered good at developing players. 
 

Before zetterberg got drafted, Red wing picked 3 other players before him. 
 

They drafted Tolsa (didn't make it)

Maximenko (don't think he made it neither)

McDonell ( 3NHL games prior to drafting Zetterberg)

 

It just goes to show, that you have to be extremely lucky and goid development isn't the only thing. 

Luck plus Most importantly, development is the key to building NHL players out of prospects. Allowing them time in the minors to marinate and grow into their NHL roles instead of just tossing them into the NHL in a sink or swim fashion and ruin them.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Luck plus Most importantly, development is the key to building NHL players out of prospects. Allowing them time in the minors to marinate and grow into their NHL roles instead of just tossing them into the NHL in a sink or swim fashion and ruin them.

Don't disagree.... 

Development is massively important. As I said earlier, who knows, maybe the JV draft wouldn't have ended in such a fiasco. 

[stawns]

I don't see anyway that CBJ would be interested in Bo as I don't see anyway that Bo would be interested in signing with CBJ.

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Luck plus Most importantly, development is the key to building NHL players out of prospects. Allowing them time in the minors to marinate and grow into their NHL roles instead of just tossing them into the NHL in a sink or swim fashion and ruin them.

Let's be honest, I've a better chance of developing cancer than this club does developing prospects 

[AnthonyG]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let's be honest, I've a better chance of developing cancer than this club does developing prospects 

Hopefully now that we have a young NHL team, we can build the farm up and develop players, so that you dont develop cancer 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Let's be honest, I've a better chance of developing cancer than this club does developing prospects 

How about we go with you are Developing “a cure” for cancer?  

Edited November 27, 2022 by Alflives

[combover]

Seravalli said he hasn't been able to confirm this but there seem to be some conversations/buzz between Columbus and Vancouver. Mentioned that's a very intriguing landing spot for Horvat Mentioned that he's not reporting it but there has been smoke there
 

 

These media guys must just laugh they completely fabricate all aspects of a “rumour” and watch the fans.

 

- he hasn’t been able to confirm. 

- He’s not reporting it but yet it got posted  lololol. 

 

this guy is a bad version of turd Eklund. 
credibility zero. 
I wonder who he’ll not be reporting we are in trade talks with next. Lol. 

I haven’t be able to confirm but Horvats not signing in sht hole   Cbj I’m not reporting that he won’t resign there but…. 
 

look at me a media insider with the same level of credibility. 
 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by combover

[stawns]

I think they need to stay away from CHL players and draft guys that they can get to Abby ASAP, like Klimovich.  All prospects should spend a season, at least, imo.  

[Ghostsof1915]

On 11/25/2022 at 8:44 AM, spook007 said:

If Canucks had won game 7 in 2011, would you look at it the same way?

 

I'm not particularly a MG 'fan boy', but think he needs a little bit of credit, for getting us that close to the holy grail...

 

I dunno. The 2011 team was also flawed. How does a team play perfect games at home, and crap the bed on the road?

The fact the 1994 team only lost by a goal in game 7, and was a goal post away from tying it, I just have always felt the 1994 team was more well rounded, than the 2011 team.

If we never lost Bourdon, if Manny never injured his eye, if we had a better defensive depth there was a chance there.

 

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, combover said:

Seravalli said he hasn't been able to confirm this but there seem to be some conversations/buzz between Columbus and Vancouver. Mentioned that's a very intriguing landing spot for Horvat Mentioned that he's not reporting it but there has been smoke there
 

 

These media guys must just laugh they completely fabricate all aspects of a “rumour” and watch the fans.

 

- he hasn’t been able to confirm. 

- He’s not reporting it but yet it got posted  lololol. 

 

this guy is a bad version of turd Eklund. 
credibility zero. 
I wonder who he’ll not be reporting we are in trade talks with next. Lol. 

I haven’t be able to confirm but Horvats not signing in sht hole   Cbj I’m not reporting that he won’t resign there but…. 
 

look at me a media insider with the same level of credibility. 
 

 

These media guys get PAID and KNOW if they mention certain teams even vaguely it will get a major reaction and people will make posts about what they have said...aka leading them to continue on with their job security.

 

If people don't like what these "insiders" say on the daily via social media or on podcasts/radio shows then don't listen to them or just DON'T post what they say...it is quite simple!

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I dunno. The 2011 team was also flawed. How does a team play perfect games at home, and crap the bed on the road?

The fact the 1994 team only lost by a goal in game 7, and was a goal post away from tying it, I just have always felt the 1994 team was more well rounded, than the 2011 team.

If we never lost Bourdon, if Manny never injured his eye, if we had a better defensive depth there was a chance there.

 

Again, absolutely...

But the holy grail is the cup. And regardless of flaws or style, the team that will win the cup will be immortalised .

And the GM building the team, too...

 

On a side note... Manny... what a player, what a miss he was...

[Phat Fingers]

18 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

I wouldnt say he was given a ton of chances and the one stint he did play 23 games, he was fine. He wasnt a liability, had pretty decent analytics. He was slow to get an opportunity due to injuries and recovering from multiple surgeries.

There was a fair share that had OJ ranked the highest dman, it bounced between him, Serg and Chych, between 5th and 11th. We as an organization desperately needed a dman, the last dman taken by Van in the first round was Luc Bourdon in 2005. Thats 11 years a part and zero first round dmen with potential drafted and developed, its no wonder why our D is our weak point. Not only did COVID do a number on OJ, but the multiple knee and back injuries after being drafted really set him back. He’s only 24 and could still get a shot with an NHL club. The point was, they were prospects, both Gaudette and OJ. Trade chips or possible role players. Gaudette is putting up a ton of goals in the AHL right now, OJ is just under a ppg.

 

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

More often than not, OJ was ranked higher than Sergachev and Chychrun. Its not that he was a bad pick, its just unfortunate what happened right after being drafted, much like Bourdon (RIP) there isnt much you can do or see coming ahead. 

 

By no means am I saying they are the ones that got away, they were prospects that are now prospects in another organization. People wonder why we have no prospects… well its because they were either claimed or traded to avoid losing on waivers.
 

OJ was a bad pick… it grates me to agree with Fred65.

 

he hates almost all picks, but he was right about OJ.

 

Sure as AHL Vets, Gaudette and OJ are now doing great in the AHL.

 

big whoop.

 

Serge plays RHD, McAvoy, Chyckrun and half a dozen other D men picked are not busts.  
 

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Apparently a deal for Roslovic fell through. Sounds like JR is ready to fire his guns, already lining up Bo's replacement.

 

I really hope he holds fire for now considering how well we're playing, worst thing he could do is mash up the team in the middle of a winning streak.

 

Wonder what it would have been though...Rathbone for Roslovic?

 

Then in turn Bo to Detroit for a first and some defensive prospects?

 

Glad the Zaitsev and CBJ deals have been rejected by the other teams but I worry what the Canucks are up to because these deals don't sound very good so far...

[Phat Fingers]

9 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Apparently a deal for Roslovic fell through. Sounds like JR is ready to fire his guns, already lining up Bo's replacement.

 

I really hope he holds fire for now considering how well we're playing, worst thing he could do is mash up the team in the middle of a winning streak.

 

Wonder what it would have been though...Rathbone for Roslovic?

 

Then in turn Bo to Detroit for a first and some defensive prospects?

 

Glad the Zaitsev and CBJ deals have been rejected by the other teams but I worry what the Canucks are up to because these deals don't sound very good so far...

A Myers for Zub deal frees up six million next year which means resigning Bo done and with freed up dead money next year, a FA signing could replace Myers or Zub for less. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Phat Fingers

[AnthonyG]

6 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

OJ was a bad pick… it grates me to agree with Fred65.

 

he hates almost all picks, but he was right about OJ.

 

Sure as AHL Vets, Gaudette and OJ are now doing great in the AHL.

 

big whoop.

 

Serge plays RHD, McAvoy, Chyckrun and half a dozen other D men picked are not busts.  
 

 

But like how do you say it was a “bad pick” when immediately after being drafted he sustained several knee and back injuries that required surgery and rehab. Its more of a “we’ll never know” kinda pick. I would agree that maybe Virtanen was a bad pick, but his path of development was sloppy. Had OJ avoided injury and rehab and wasnt derailed and set back a couple years, I would agree. But I cant blame anyone on what happened after being drafted. Especially when most experts had OJ as the higher ranked Dman.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

But like how do you say it was a “bad pick” when immediately after being drafted he sustained several knee and back injuries that required surgery and rehab. Its more of a “we’ll never know” kinda pick. I would agree that maybe Virtanen was a bad pick, but his path of development was sloppy. Had OJ avoided injury and rehab and wasnt derailed and set back a couple years, I would agree. But I cant blame anyone on what happened after being drafted. Especially when most experts had OJ as the higher ranked Dman.

Benning went and watched OJ in one tournament and declared that was his guy.  He overruled the scouts who had been following those players for years, based on his very limited observation of just one guy.  The next draft Benning wanted Glass and Linden had to step in and allow the scouts to make the choice, which was Petey.  It’s all been posted here lots of times.  

[AnthonyG]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning went and watched OJ in one tournament and declared that was his guy.  He overruled the scouts who had been following those players for years, based on his very limited observation of just one guy.  The next draft Benning wanted Glass and Linden had to step in and allow the scouts to make the choice, which was Petey.  It’s all been posted here lots of times.  

Which tournament?

[NHL97OneTimer]

15 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

But like how do you say it was a “bad pick” when immediately after being drafted he sustained several knee and back injuries that required surgery and rehab. Its more of a “we’ll never know” kinda pick. I would agree that maybe Virtanen was a bad pick, but his path of development was sloppy. Had OJ avoided injury and rehab and wasnt derailed and set back a couple years, I would agree. But I cant blame anyone on what happened after being drafted. Especially when most experts had OJ as the higher ranked Dman.

I recall the media being quite surprised that JB went off-script picking OJ that year.  I also recall interviews after OJ was drafted where he was declaring himself ready for the NHL right away.  Did this delusional attitude not come out in their interviews with him?!!!  JB did well overall I would say (vs Gillis' atrocious drafting record), but OJ and JV were not good looks given those available at the time.

Edited November 27, 2022 by NHL97OneTimer