Roberto Luongo to be inducted into Canucks Ring of Honour

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Naslund at his peak was neck and neck with Forsberg… Naslund is criminally under appreciated here. 

You mean they are going to arrest me for my comment on Naslund?   

 

Naslund was a great player in his time.  He did have those 3-4 years with the WCE.  I think if you put him in the ring of honour and retired Loui's jersey I'd be okay with that...  

[alt kilgore]

Its all rather silly. This debate between a high end honour and and very high end honour. 

 

Both are still honourable. I think some players maybe are in between the two. That's where Luongo is.  Like getting change, some get rounded up, and some get rounded down.  Naslund IMO was another player in that in between world, and was rounded up. Same with Smyl.

 

Some are rounded down. Thomas Gradin some could argue deserved to have his jersey retired.

 

There are arguments to be made either way.  For me, he should be rounded down to ROH, which is still a rare honour in this market at least. And it is mostly to do with his post season performances when we needed him to be clutch. His whining about Thomas not pumping his tires, and say how great a goalie he was facing etc... was yet another time that his arrogance got him in trouble. I didn't like his pouting about being upstaged by Schneider either. Even not playing in the outdoor classic, sorry but Schneider was playing better than he was then, and Torts wanted to win it. Suck it up, and play better, and bump Cory off the hill.

And even though the cap recapture wasn't his fault, he knew full well that he was choosing to help the Panthers over the Canucks. He wanted a position in the Panthers head office, and he did what would please them and get him there.  Not criticizing him for doing what he thought was best for his family to secure a job in Florida, but he made a choice, when most other players in his position choose to  go on LTIR.

Maybe two of those reasons have nothing to do with performance on the ice but combined, it knocks him down a peg in my eyes. Only one peg though. I still think he deserves to be honoured here with a ROH.  Nothing to sneeze at!

 

 

 

 

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You mean they are going to arrest me for my comment on Naslund?   

 

Naslund was a great player in his time.  He did have those 3-4 years with the WCE.  I think if you put him in the ring of honour and retired Loui's jersey I'd be okay with that...  

This franchise was on the brink of moving until Naslund broke out. He is far more important to this franchise than given credit for imo. 

[250Integra]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You mean they are going to arrest me for my comment on Naslund?   

 

Naslund was a great player in his time.  He did have those 3-4 years with the WCE.  I think if you put him in the ring of honour and retired Loui's jersey I'd be okay with that...  

My guess is you were too young to remember or didn't exist when Naslund was in his prime. 

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

16 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

My guess is you were too young to remember or didn't exist when Naslund was in his prime. 

Naslunds prime that lasted what? 2 seasons...

 

There's a reason luongo is in the hall and naslund isn't even ranked in a top 200

 

And i know you weren't replying to me, but your age comments are childish. I've been watching the Canucks for over 30 years 

Edited December 1, 2022 by BlakeQuinnAndEggs

[Elias Pettersson]

24 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

My guess is you were too young to remember or didn't exist when Naslund was in his prime. 

Gretzky was my favourite player growing up. So your guess would be off by about 15 years. 
 

Bertuzzi in his prime was just as good as Naslund. They all choked in 2003. They had the team to win it all. Luongo just like the others who have numbers retired at least made it to the finals. 
 

The HHOF and game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals plus 6 votes from beating one of the top 5 goalies of all time for the Vezina trophy trumps everything Naslund did.

If Naslund was as great as you say he is why isn’t he in the HHOF?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Elias Pettersson

[JeremyCuddles]

39 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Naslund at his peak was neck and neck with Forsberg… Naslund is criminally under appreciated here. 

Naslund is still my favorite Canuck of all time, the lowest I'd say is he is tied with Hamhuis for all time fav. But I'd still probably give the edge to Nazzy as my fav. Considering he was the guy when I first got into hockey. He was so cool and collected. He was a monster too. I was PISSED when we didn't re-sign him. He shoulda retired a Canuck. I think the issue is people need to crap on Naslund to prop up Luongo's retirement case. Which is beyond unnecessary. Luongo's play for us 100% validates his play without needing to take unnecessary shots at Nazzy.

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, Muttley said:

 

The numbers don’t lie.
 

Owns virtually every Canuck goalie record and played his prime years in Vancouver, just like Bure (Luongo played 8 years, one more than Bure).

 

Has the 4th most career wins in NHL history, definite top 5-10 best goalie to ever play all time in the NHL. Can you say that about Bure for goals? 
 

Bure held out while Luongo NEVER missed a game. Bure’s contracts were never in a way that he wanted to spend his whole career here. Luongo’s did. A 12 year contract speaks volumes. 
 

Other accolades such as the main starter in the Olympic gold medal win in Vancouver, winning the Lester Pearson award for being the top NHL player by his peers and NHL all star are also things that make him too good for the ring of honour. His save percentage was up there with all the elite goalies every year he was here. 
 

The recapture penalty was not his fault. That was Bettman doing a retroactive move that is actually illegal when it comes to governments introducing new laws. Gillis did not do anything wrong at the time. Our ownership had no balls to fight that. 
 

Luongo was instrumental to a lot of playoff success and was a key part of the Presidents trophy and Finals in 2011. Before anyone mentions his loss in game 7, which is a stupid argument to define his actual legacy. Luongo got 2 shut outs in that series and was dealing with a depleted defensive core. Where were the Sedins that game where we got shut out? Surely they get their jerseys retired no question right? 

 

Not taking anything away from the Sedins or Bure. I loved them and they deserve to be up there.
 

When you think about this logically, this makes NO sense.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

The numbers don’t lie.
 

Owns virtually every Canuck goalie record and played his prime years in Vancouver, just like Bure (Luongo played 8 years, one more than Bure).

 

Has the 4th most career wins in NHL history, definite top 5-10 best goalie to ever play all time in the NHL. Can you say that about Bure for goals? 
 

Bure held out while Luongo NEVER missed a game. Bure’s contracts were never in a way that he wanted to spend his whole career here. Luongo’s did. A 12 year contract speaks volumes. 
 

Other accolades such as the main starter in the Olympic gold medal win in Vancouver, winning the Lester Pearson award for being the top NHL player by his peers and NHL all star are also things that make him too good for the ring of honour. His save percentage was up there with all the elite goalies every year he was here. 
 

The recapture penalty was not his fault. That was Bettman doing a retroactive move that is actually illegal when it comes to governments introducing new laws. Gillis did not do anything wrong at the time. Our ownership had no balls to fight that. 
 

Luongo was instrumental to a lot of playoff success and was a key part of the Presidents trophy and Finals in 2011. Before anyone mentions his loss in game 7, which is a stupid argument to define his actual legacy. Luongo got 2 shut outs in that series and was dealing with a depleted defensive core. Where were the Sedins that game where we got shut out? Surely they get their jerseys retired no question right? 

 

Not taking anything away from the Sedins or Bure. I loved them and they deserve to be up there.
 

When you think about this logically, this makes NO sense.

Agreed except Bobby Lou sees himself as a Panther first.  No player that doesn’t see themselves as a Canuck first should have their number retired.  Swift kick with a frozen boot right in the arse is what Lou gets, unless he announces (all the time) he’s a Canuck first and forever.  

[250Integra]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky was my favourite player growing up. So your guess would be off by about 15 years. 
 

Bertuzzi in his prime was just as good as Naslund. They all choked in 2003. They had the team to win it all. Luongo just like the others who have numbers retired at least made it to the finals. 
 

The HHOF and game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals plus 6 votes from beating one of the top 5 goalies of all time for the Vezina trophy trumps everything Naslund did.

If Naslund was as great as you say he is why isn’t he in the HHOF?

He was great but he also retired early, didn’t play 1000 games or hit a 1000 points. Maybe that’s why? In terms of accolades, he should be there if Alfredsson and Sundin are. Sundin never played a SCF game so not sure where your logic comes from.

 

One main criteria of a jersey retirement is based on the players service / impact to the organization. Chris Neil is getting his jersey retired yet he is known for being a pest and being hard to play against. He’s not in the HHOF or anywhere near one of the best 500 players to ever play yet he’s getting recognized. 
 

You can’t really say getting votes and not winning a trophy trumps a player actually winning a trophy lmao. He got voted best player by his peers when it could’ve gone to any of those greats.

Edited December 2, 2022 by 250Integra

[Elias Pettersson]

18 minutes ago, 250Integra said:

He was great but he also retired early, didn’t play 1000 games or hit a 1000 points. Maybe that’s why? In terms of accolades, he should be there if Alfredsson and Sundin are. Sundin never played a SCF game so not sure where your logic comes from.

 

One main criteria of a jersey retirement is based on the players service / impact to the organization. Chris Neil is getting his jersey retired yet he is known for being a pest and being hard to play against. He’s not in the HHOF or anywhere near one of the best 500 players to ever play yet he’s getting recognized. 
 

You can’t really say getting votes and not winning a trophy trumps a player actually winning a trophy lmao. He got voted best player by his peers when it could’ve gone to any of those greats.

Naslund played 1117 games in the NHL and retired one month before his 36th birthday.  So your numbers are off and retiring at age 36 is not considered early.  Lots of guys in the HHOF have retired earlier.

 

If he couldn’t get 1000 points in over 1100 games then he wasn’t good enough to make the HHOF.  He couldn’t even crack 400 goals in over 1100 games. Luongo has the 4th most wins in NHL history. Naslund doesn’t even have 400 goals.

 

Chris Neil is the equivalent of Stan Smyl.  Every team has one of those guys.  

[hammertime]

7 hours ago, 24K PureCool said:

I can give a pass to Smyle and Naslund considering we didn't have the ring back then. 

 

Bure should have been in the ring rather than being retired imo. 

I give it to Smyle because he is a true Canuck through and through. He's put his heart into this team thought his life Nas Bure Luo I wouldn't say their hearts were here. 

[ShawnAntoski]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Agreed except Bobby Lou sees himself as a Panther first.  No player that doesn’t see themselves as a Canuck first should have their number retired.  Swift kick with a frozen boot right in the arse is what Lou gets, unless he announces (all the time) he’s a Canuck first and forever.  

I agree, with this and Loungos' action(s) confirms it - despite the platitudes he says.  He even confirmed it, on some of his interviews that he hated his "situation" in Vancouver.  Anyways, another failed publicity stunt from Aquaman.  Imo, Loungo will always be a regular season goalie and not a champion but he has JUST, enough brand power to be considered a HOF and a member of the ROH.  

Edited December 2, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Sell.the.team]

Lu does not need deserve a jersey retirement.  I don't resent him like I do Kesler but he screwed this team over big time with his unnecessary retirement and showed his true allegiance.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Best goalie in franchise history, we all thought Demko would catch his records but now he's stumbling a bit. Deserved to be retired for what he did for this franchise.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 12/1/2022 at 1:56 PM, 250Integra said:

People arguing how Luongo's number should be retired because he's in the HHOF and the Canucks set the bar low with Naslund's jersey retirement. I've got a few points here:

 

- The ROH was introduced the same year Naslund's jersey was retired, and the only two inductees at the time (before his retirement) were Kurtenbach and McLean followed by Gradin and Snepsts. Up to that point, he was the most deserving player to have their jersey retired alongside Smyl and Linden, based on his tenure and impact as one of the longest serving Canucks Captains. Could it be argued NOW that he should be in the ROH instead now? Yes, maybe, but at that time, the Canucks wanted to honor one of their all time great players that was the proper way to do it.

 

Naslund had just passed Trevor Linden as the Canucks all time scoring leader and was soon to be passed by the Sedins.  They knew that the moment the Sedins passed him it would be a tougher sell for the rafters and they rushed him in during that window.  I still don't really have a problem with jersey...though he would be ROH for me...but if I recall correctly they made sure to do it when the case would (briefly) be the strongest for it.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:36 PM, kilgore said:

Its all rather silly. This debate between a high end honour and and very high end honour. 

 

Both are still honourable. I think some players maybe are in between the two. That's where Luongo is.  Like getting change, some get rounded up, and some get rounded down.  Naslund IMO was another player in that in between world, and was rounded up. Same with Smyl.

 

Some are rounded down. Thomas Gradin some could argue deserved to have his jersey retired.

 

There are arguments to be made either way.  For me, he should be rounded down to ROH, which is still a rare honour in this market at least. And it is mostly to do with his post season performances when we needed him to be clutch. His whining about Thomas not pumping his tires, and say how great a goalie he was facing etc... was yet another time that his arrogance got him in trouble. I didn't like his pouting about being upstaged by Schneider either. Even not playing in the outdoor classic, sorry but Schneider was playing better than he was then, and Torts wanted to win it. Suck it up, and play better, and bump Cory off the hill.

And even though the cap recapture wasn't his fault, he knew full well that he was choosing to help the Panthers over the Canucks. He wanted a position in the Panthers head office, and he did what would please them and get him there.  Not criticizing him for doing what he thought was best for his family to secure a job in Florida, but he made a choice, when most other players in his position choose to  go on LTIR.

Maybe two of those reasons have nothing to do with performance on the ice but combined, it knocks him down a peg in my eyes. Only one peg though. I still think he deserves to be honoured here with a ROH.  Nothing to sneeze at!

 

Yeah Gradin was the Canucks career scoring leader before Smyl passed him fairly shortly after Gradin left.  And I think Snepsts got "rounded down" even more than Gradin.  The rounding up and down is a reasonable way to look at things though.  Naslund was rounded up a bit, Bure too.  Snepsts and Gradin and McLean down a bit.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:58 PM, BlakeQuinnAndEggs said:

Naslunds prime that lasted what? 2 seasons...

 

There's a reason luongo is in the hall and naslund isn't even ranked in a top 200

 

And i know you weren't replying to me, but your age comments are childish. I've been watching the Canucks for over 30 years 

 

Naslund was a 1st team All Star (best LW in the league) three seasons in a row.

 

Saying he is not top 200 while pointing out that Lu is in the Hall of Fame also isn't quite fair given that there are about 300 players in the Hall of Fame, which means almost 100 players in the Hall who can't possibly be top 200 themselves.

 

Also, Naslund does have a legitimate case for the Hall of Fame.  Any player who is a 1st team All-Star (or even 2nd) three times pretty much GETS IN for the Hall of Fame, with one exception...Left Wings.

 

All of Markus Naslund, Rick Martin, Kevin Stevens and Charlie Simmer have a resume of post-season All Star teams that woud most likely have them in the Hall of they were centers, goalies, defensemen or right wings.  All four lack in longevity and career totals...but so do Bure, Neely, Lindros and so on.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 12/1/2022 at 4:04 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

Gretzky was my favourite player growing up. So your guess would be off by about 15 years. 
 

Bertuzzi in his prime was just as good as Naslund. They all choked in 2003. They had the team to win it all. Luongo just like the others who have numbers retired at least made it to the finals. 
 

The HHOF and game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals plus 6 votes from beating one of the top 5 goalies of all time for the Vezina trophy trumps everything Naslund did.

If Naslund was as great as you say he is why isn’t he in the HHOF?

 

As to the Hall of Fame and Naslund please see my last post, probably directly above this one.

 

Also Luongo once being 6 votes from beating a top 5 goalie of all time for the Vezina trumping Naslund's whole career?  Well, you can make the argument but...  Jose Theodore beat everybody in the NHL for the Hart Trophy.  Mike Liut actually beat Wayne Gretzky for the Pearson / Lindsay Trophy in 1981 or so.  Not six votes away, actually beat him as league MVP, and he isn't in the Hall of Fame or any team's rafters and perhaps quite unfairly so.  For a guy who was league MVP, made the classic Canada Cup team, also had a fantastic late career renaissance with the Capitals, etc.

 

Lu had one of the greatest seasons of all time by any goalie that year.  Martin Brodeur had a season that was one half of one percent better.

 

Anyway, as I have stated above, Naslund's three 1st team All Star berths would probably have had him in the Hall if he had been the best player in the league at any other position.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

On 12/1/2022 at 11:48 PM, DownUndaCanuck said:

Best goalie in franchise history, we all thought Demko would catch his records but now he's stumbling a bit. Deserved to be retired for what he did for this franchise.

 

I was never particularly convinced that Demko would catch his records.  Aside from becoming Canucks starter at a reasonably seasoned age, all kinds of things can happen to see a goalie either retire or traded.  Nobody thought Mike Liut would ever be traded from the Blues in the early 80s...soon enough he was a Whaler.  Pete Peeters got the Flyers to the final in 1980 and then was traded, then won the Vezina shortly thereafter for the Bruins and then was traded.  The Canucks bailed on Glen Hanlon.  And Schneider.

 

There's many a slip betwixt the cup and the lip.