[PGT] Florida Panthers at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 01, 2022

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Get we needed an Edler replacement.   That was a result of OJ not working out. If we wanted to pick just one thing that went very wrong in the JB era, that was the pivotal moment.    Covid didn't help much either - but unlike some, it didn't bother me much to move on from the remnants of the last core.   Have to at some point anyways.    OEL is far from the major issue .... letting the cap shed naturally and picking 9th instead, likely meant we picked 9th again last season or higher.   And maybe we'd be seeing some benefit now, maybe not. 

 

JB was a one or two years off.   Team never bottomed out properly because we didn't set an internal cap.   That was just not the right call.   Miller could have been recycled ... don't mind having both him and Horvat as anchors ... but is it the right thing to do? 

 

Lots of hockey left this season, there still is time to fix this.    Only Miller and OEL are fixtures.    The sharks will be circling, JR better start working with Allvin.   Instead of talking.    Team needs a shake up whether or not the double down or decide it's time to blow it up.  
 

Kuzmenko and Horvat are both big chips.  Kuzmo is playing himself into a first round pick this draft right now.   Coleman got one lol.    Horvat a better first rounder from a middling team, plus a grade A prospect plus a roster player back on an expiring deal that could help us tank.    Miller is a big maybe.   Some team might like him still too.    Myers and Brock both become easy to trade once you retain.   Brocks got two more years so that might hurt ... but depends on the return.   Myers it won't matter either way because we likely need a two year tank job anyways.  

 

Makar was drafted, five years later COL won a cup.    Know that's not a realistic expectation.   But we can't expect this team to win a cup as is.    Two top four defenseman away.    And that's with this forward group as is... How can we get two top four defensemen,  without losing a key player?    Only way i see that happening, is by doubling down, and giving up our picks yet again - plus some magical Quin like trades. Podz for a Salo?   As in Peter Scheaffer for Salo and they take Pearson too?    So far neither Stillman or Bear is that.  

 

At least we got ahead of paying cap in the future lol.   Cost us a second rounder.    

I think this is the nut of your post. IMHO it is not about playing well enough to make playoffs. I say this because this group is not a serious CUP contender. Hoping for playoffs doesn't mean anything to me in the long run. This is why I regularly call for a rebuild. Rutherford and Alvin have to move 3-4 players to ultimately make this group younger and with a higher upper end. In my mind that means Boeser, Miller, Garland and Meyers. I appreciate that is easier said than the CAP reality of the NHL. There is no doubt in my mind that management has already worked the phones and that other NHL teams know where the Canucks stand on who they will move and the ask for them. 

[tas]

2 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Boeser supporters were more delusional than benning supporters

or maybe they're just fans of the team.

 

that's what the clods on this website and twitter don't get. you don't support a team when they're doing well, you support them when they're doing badly because that's when they need "support."

 

the fair-weather "fans" of this team don't deserve a cup, whether they've been waiting since 1970 or not. 

[Mustard Tiger]

On the bright side we only have to witness this for like 4 more months. Followed by endless threads about our 11-16th overall pick and what could have been 

 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, tas said:

or maybe they're just fans of the team.

 

that's what the clods on this website and twitter don't get. you don't support a team when they're doing well, you support them when they're doing badly because that's when they need "support."

 

the fair-weather "fans" of this team don't deserve a cup, whether they've been waiting since 1970 or not. 

Then there are “all weather” fans who want to see us build a team like what Gillis did, and see needing a KABOOM 5-7 year proper rebuild as how to get there.  

[Alflives]

Just now, Mustard Tiger said:

On the bright side we only have to witness this for like 4 more months. Followed by endless threads about our 11-16th overall pick and what could have been 

 

And when the club goes in their inevitable end of the season winning streak to fall out of a top five pick our owner will Tweet how exciting this team is and try to sell seats for next season with his enthusiasm.  

[jyu]

8 hours ago, J-23 said:

This team is perfectly built for mediocre 10-15 range.

 

No way they get into top 5 without selling.

True. But now Demko is out so him gaining form and carrying the team on his back is not gonna happen. Our defence is pretty bad and outscoring the opposition wasn't going to last (absurdly high shooting percentage). 

 

[Sativika]

I'm a supporter of our Canucks, no doubt, but wow. Just wow. 

We've got the worst luck. Definitely some bad juju going' on.

Time to sacrifice a couple of goats!

[bad alice french]

I wonder what a trade/re-structuring  involving Huggy and Petey would look like. These two are constantly cemented as untouchable yet there is a very strong possibility that their combined lack of leadership qualities are a deterrent. I’ve been thinking about this since their holdouts and especially since seeing the Sportsnet feature on the Hughes brothers last week. Good solid leadership has to start at the top of the roster from your best players and our best players are both seemingly coy and quiet personalities. 
Are these players leading by example?

Are they vocal? Do they exude swagger and confidence? 
Im wondering if it’s time to turn the page on these marvellous players and look at re building with a different DNA at the foundation of the rebuild. Petey’s stock is at an all time high and Huggy’s contract is solid gold. I’m concerned we are fixated on the wrong solution when the seemingly only worthwhile parts of the future puzzle may in fact be the biggest and most important part of the problem. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by bad alice french

[Mustard Tiger]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And when the club goes in their inevitable end of the season winning streak to fall out of a top five pick our owner will Tweet how exciting this team is and try to sell seats for next season with his enthusiasm.  

Yup! Thank goodness though we have a fairsize group of pro re-sign everyone that will remind us we are about to turn the corner!! 

[JayDangles]

I don't know why basic hockey is so hard for professionals to understand sometimes.

Playing agressive, hitting, covering your man are all basic hockey tactics.

Still think leadership is terrible. For 3 games Horvat has disappeared. I don't care about his scoring. He is back to his unemotional lack of effort zero motivation factor hockey.

And wtf with this 4th line. They were quoted before the game saying they heard Bruce loud and clear, need to be agressive, not get bullied. They didn't hit a damn thing. Lazars best game was his first game back from injury, now he is back to coasting. 

People may have an emotional attachment to players, but guys like Bo, Boes, Garland, Miller all need to go for this team to have a hope in hell of actually competing. Country club well on display last night

[bad alice french]

1 minute ago, JayDangles said:

I don't know why basic hockey is so hard for professionals to understand sometimes.

Playing agressive, hitting, covering your man are all basic hockey tactics.

Still think leadership is terrible. For 3 games Horvat has disappeared. I don't care about his scoring. He is back to his unemotional lack of effort zero motivation factor hockey.

And wtf with this 4th line. They were quoted before the game saying they heard Bruce loud and clear, need to be agressive, not get bullied. They didn't hit a damn thing. Lazars best game was his first game back from injury, now he is back to coasting. 

People may have an emotional attachment to players, but guys like Bo, Boes, Garland, Miller all need to go for this team to have a hope in hell of actually competing. Country club well on display last night

Hey you should read my above post. Why aren’t Hughes and Pettersson ever targeted as having poor leadership qualities. 

[cocanuck]

A proper rebuild can only be successful if the right players are chosen through the draft.  I will admit that the additions this year were good, however, jim rutherfords draft record isnt that great.  Its very difficult to have a championship team unless you draft exceptionally well with top picks!  Keep playing stillman!!

[bad alice french]

Just now, cocanuck said:

A proper rebuild can only be successful if the right players are chosen through the draft.  I will admit that the additions this year were good, however, jim rutherfords draft record isnt that great.  Its very difficult to have a championship team unless you draft exceptionally well with top picks!  Keep playing stillman!!

Trimming around the perimeter isn’t gonna do it. If the plan is to change the make up of the team then this can only happen at the very top of the roster.

[Harold Drunken]

Can't wait for another late season push so we can pick 14th overall

 

(stole this from someone yesterday but it's so perfect.)

 

Aquilini come meaningful games in March time:

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[Sativika]

3 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

................Still think leadership is terrible. For 3 games Horvat has disappeared. I don't care about his scoring. He is back to his unemotional lack of effort zero motivation factor hockey.........

 

........People may have an emotional attachment to players, but guys like Bo, Boes, Garland, Miller all need to go for this team to have a hope in hell of actually competing. Country club well on display last night

I imagine it's hard for BoHo to consistently motivate this team when there's a losing culture lingering with this organization. A domino affect that permeates all involved and the lingering stink is hard to get rid of.

 

Emotional attachments are part and partial to loving and supporting ones team. I must admit. I'm guilty of that to be sure. But something's gotta give. At this point it's my opinion that Petey is the only keeper.

 

[Harold Drunken]

5 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Be careful what you wish for, this is the management that thinks Stillman and Studnicka are the answers, and that publically disrespecting the coach will get a better buy-in by the players. 

Yeah ok lol, it's painfully obvious that Stillman and Studnicka were just depth acquisitions.....not players intended to turn things around lol I think you know that though.....You don't sign a bottom pairing defenseman and a fourth line/part time NHL player with the expectation they will change the trajectory of the team. Nobody's going to believe that, or at least they shouldn't.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Harold Drunken

[DrJockitch]

Ooh we have gotten to the point in the thread where we are policing fandom.

Your a fan if…

Fairweather fans do…

Blah, Blah, Blah. 

worry about yourself, stop moderating fandom. 

[spook007]

8 hours ago, Barnstorm said:

That was me.

Thank god.... was worried he was hanging in the bathroom...

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said:

Yeah ok lol, it's painfully obvious that Stillman and Studnicka were depth acquisitions.....not players intended to turn things around lol I think you know that though.....

They are also part of a pattern of trading pics and prospects for win now players instead of building up a depleted system with little in the way of prospects. 
Management continues to act like we are tweaking a good team to try to make a championship team but all we are doing is tweaking a mediocre team so that it continues to be mediocre for longer.  
‘But hey we had a 3 win streak against the depleted champs and a flat non-playoff team from last season so we must be championship calibre. 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Get we needed an Edler replacement.   That was a result of OJ not working out. If we wanted to pick just one thing that went very wrong in the JB era, that was the pivotal moment.    Covid didn't help much either - but unlike some, it didn't bother me much to move on from the remnants of the last core.   Have to at some point anyways.    OEL is far from the major issue .... letting the cap shed naturally and picking 9th instead, likely meant we picked 9th again last season or higher.   And maybe we'd be seeing some benefit now, maybe not. 

 

JB was a one or two years off.   Team never bottomed out properly because we didn't set an internal cap.   That was just not the right call.   Miller could have been recycled ... don't mind having both him and Horvat as anchors ... but is it the right thing to do? 

 

Lots of hockey left this season, there still is time to fix this.    Only Miller and OEL are fixtures.    The sharks will be circling, JR better start working with Allvin.   Instead of talking.    Team needs a shake up whether or not the double down or decide it's time to blow it up.  
 

Kuzmenko and Horvat are both big chips.  Kuzmo is playing himself into a first round pick this draft right now.   Coleman got one lol.    Horvat a better first rounder from a middling team, plus a grade A prospect plus a roster player back on an expiring deal that could help us tank.    Miller is a big maybe.   Some team might like him still too.    Myers and Brock both become easy to trade once you retain.   Brocks got two more years so that might hurt ... but depends on the return.   Myers it won't matter either way because we likely need a two year tank job anyways.  

 

Makar was drafted, five years later COL won a cup.    Know that's not a realistic expectation.   But we can't expect this team to win a cup as is.    Two top four defenseman away.    And that's with this forward group as is... How can we get two top four defensemen,  without losing a key player?    Only way i see that happening, is by doubling down, and giving up our picks yet again - plus some magical Quin like trades. Podz for a Salo?   As in Peter Scheaffer for Salo and they take Pearson too?    So far neither Stillman or Bear is that.  

 

At least we got ahead of paying cap in the future lol.   Cost us a second rounder.    

Bear had the best plus/minus of any player let alone D-man being an even 0 in a game where our opponents scored 5 against us. He’s been playing well, but is still adjusting to a new team. Only Schenn and Burroughs have played better then him. How many times have we seen him take the man off the puck allowing his team mates to pick it up and get it out of our own end, win a puck battle on the boards or block an opponents pass/shot? He’s currently on a 30 point full season pace. He’s ranked 85th as a D in the NHL for PPG percentage. Other than Quinn Hughes and Alex Edler we haven’t had that kind of points production from any player on our blue line since Jason Garrison in 2013.
 

When on the ice, here’s the expected goals for and against for all of our D in order of best to worst. Obviously the more someone plays the higher the numbers get, so net is the most accurate measuring stick of performance at even strength.

 

Schenn xGF 16.2 xGA 14.6 net +1.6

Burroughs xGF 8.6 xGA 8.9 net -0.4 (rounded)

Bear xGF 10 xGA 10.7 net -0.6 (rounded)

Hughes xGF 16.6 xGA 17.3 net -0.7

Rathbone xGF 2.9 xGA 4.7 net -1.8

OEL xGF 17.5 xGA 20.1 net -2.6

Stillman xGF 6.3 xGA 9.9 net -3.6

Myers xGF 14.4 xGA 19.3 net -4.9

 

He’s ranked 158th as a D with a net -0.6 rating. Since November 12th after the Leafs game Bear has had a higher xGF vs xGA rating in every single game except Nov. 21st in the 5-4 loss to Vegas. Meaning he’s improved his stats in 8 of the 9 games since then. Canucks went 5-4 and were out scored 32-30 in those 9 games. 
 

Bear has been a lifeline for the team and currently plays like a top 4 D on our roster. It’s not coincidence Canucks went 2-5-2 (6/18 points .333) without him and 7-7-1 (15/30 points .500) since he joined us. Even better: he’s still improving his stats and play as he gets more and more comfortable here. This isn’t his ceiling, it’s his beginning. Paying only a 5th for him was highway robbery.

 

Leave Bear out of this, he’s one of the lone bright spots on the team this year.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by StanleyCupOneDay