We need to talk about "US" and our past arrogance and bubble we created for ourselves

[SilentSam]

6 hours ago, Zerofaith said:

The Canucks as a franchise don’t have an identity. This leads to division in the fan base on everything, with either side staunchly defending their own positions. 

Oh we had one,. Not indifferent to the hockey Boston has produced for years.

 

might be worth while for you to watch the Van V’s NYR  Stanley cup finals 93/94 , or any games leading up to that series.

Our historical and physical series against Calgary for years.

Even the “sweep” we lost to the Islanders was a solid team that represented the hockey the blue collar fan base loved..

 

I think that’s what changed actually,  the fan base at games is NOT blue collar any more,

..  seems more like an “entitled” crowd when I have been..  waiting to condemn.

 

[Zerofaith]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Oh we had one,. Not indifferent to the hockey Boston has produced for years.

 

might be worth while for you to watch the Van V’s NYR  Stanley cup finals 93/94 , or any games leading up to that series.

Our historical and physical series against Calgary for years.

Even the “sweep” we lost to the Islanders was a solid team that represented the hockey the blue collar fan base loved..

 

I think that’s what changed actually,  the fan base at games is NOT blue collar any more,

..  seems more like an “entitled” crowd when I have been..  waiting to condemn.

 

this is a joke response I presume 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

9 minutes ago, Zerofaith said:

this is a joke response I presume 

Clearly this franchise needs more Mitch Miller

[XxNaslundxX]

Your not wrong but i dont think im like that. Maybe i have personal bias? I think its natural for fans to cheer for their team regardless of whos on their team. By watching a player, we start cheering for that player on top of cheering the team. I knew Ehlers and Nylander were better. But i cheered for Jake because he was our guy. Regretfully now. Being a Canuck  creates a Bias for diehard fans. I think that some posters analyse the game and the team and want to win but others just bleed canucks. Its just how it is in a big hockey market.

[SilentSam]

42 minutes ago, Zerofaith said:

this is a joke response I presume 

Nope.

If  you want to watch “pretty” hockey,  I suggest the “bantam” levels of minor hockey or major midget..

 

Stanley Cup hockey is not pretty..

blood is spilled every year.

 

Your charitable donations to how this franchise operates is truly welcomed,.  
but don’t expect a hockey team to win a cup that looks like choir boys.

Edited December 22, 2022 by SilentSam

[Zerofaith]

8 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Nope.

If  you want to watch “pretty” hockey,  I suggest the “bantam” levels of minor hockey or major midget..

 

Stanley Cup hockey is not pretty..

blood is spilled every year.

 

Your charitable donations to how this franchise operates is truly welcomed,.  
but don’t expect a hockey team to win a cup that looks like choir boys.

 

 

Like I said this team has no core identity that gets passed down as players change. The closest thing in recent years would be “bunch of nice guys” identity sadly

[Provost]

… and the people who said all those things said anyone who didn’t agree with them aren’t “real” fans.

[Master Mind]

On 12/21/2022 at 4:59 PM, iinatcc said:

I don't really create threads here, but, during the course of the season ( and I suppose offseason) there's been a lot of people here blaming either the management, the owner, the players, the coaching staff or all of the above. Whether it was Benning's fault, Aquilini's, Rutherford and Allvin's, Green. Bruce, Horvat, Miller, and the list goes on. 

 

And with good reason the team isn't good and everyone in the Canucks organization past and present share the blame in this. 

 

But I don't want to talk about them since there are sections and threads dedicated to each person already.

 

What I really want to is about us whether or not we share the blame, as fans and members in "Canucks Twitter' or I guess the diehard Canucks fans, on the failures of the organization. 

 

Before any of you ask me what I am talking about let me just list a few observations I've had in this forums over the years:

(Note: I am not to debate or argue each point I will make but I have a bigger point after listing out a few things)

 

• Virtanen for the longest time people here were stubborn to admit that Ehlers or Nylander were better players than Virtanen. Even going as far as calling the latter two one dimensional and going as far as discrediting some of the analysts who agree our initial expectations of Virtanen (Ferraro comparing Virtanen to Hansen and our reaction here is one example).
• People here still claiming that Benning is a good drafter even though nothing suggests that when you look at the players that failed to hit past the 1st round (something analysis in TSN and Sportsnet have pointed out) 
• OEL is a #1 defenseman and he is at a good contract that will age well. Even though his trajectory doesn't indicate that is not the case from various people in the media including analysts whose job is to cover the Coyotes. 
• I remember here people saying they would take Podkolzin over Zegras because, apparently, Zegras has character issues. 
• The way we like to character assassinate former Canucks players like Gaudette or McCann (even if it's warranted or not)
• People here in saying the defense of this team is good enough, even people saying Myers is a better player and contract than Adam Larsson even though, as things look now, its seems people are more in denial than anything. Heck people were saying how point out the Canucks GAA the latter part of last season to defend the team's defense even though advanced stats show the reason for that was mostly Demko and Canucks give up a lot of high danger chances. 
• The reports that the Canucks' locker room have a country club atmosphere from Nick Kypreos and people here were ready to pounce on him even distastefully showing a video of him getting knocked out. Turns out those reports might have actually some bearing. 
• Everyone was blaming last season on the Coaching specifically Green. Even though the team just wasn't good. Now on Bodreau's 1st full season it's clear the issue of the team was not primarily due to coaching 
• Our predictions on the standings this season thinking Canucks will be Top 3 of the division because the players will take step forward while dismissing teams like Vegas and LA Kings saying they will slide down even though they have a proven track record the current Canucks' core do not have. Like how could we make the assumption that every Canucks player is going to take a step forward and no one is going to regress and, for whatever reason, a team like Vegas would not bounce back and LA, and their veteran core and young players, would also take a step forward? 
• Of course the many predictions professions from hockey Analysts to Vegas odd makers (who do predictions based on their model) people here seem to scoff off because the Canucks aren't on their prediction to make the playoffs. 

 

I know I am at the risk of generalizing everyone here with what I listed. I don't intend to I know some people have differing opinions on some of those points but big picture that is the feeling I am getting here of being close minded and accepting our own unprofessional opinions about the team as truth (more more true) than the professionals who do this as a living either as hockey analysts, insiders, or reporters.

 

Like I said I am not going to argue each point here but my point is all these example lead to one thing arrogance, denial, and perhaps we created a little bubble for ourselves that has, only recently, has begun to burst.

 

People here like bashing anyone from Sportsnet, TSN, or otherwise if they say something about the Canucks people here do not agree with. And all these criticism, from my memory, has basically prophesied where the Canucks are in right now. As someone from Sportsnet said (paraphrasing) "what arrogance do we have to scoff or ignore people who do this for a living" he was talking about the Vegas odd makers who build the analytical models on seeing the trajectory of each team but it hold true to how us here tend to discredit the professional experts and instead created the bubble for ourselves that everything is fine.

 

Look I understand a lot of this is rooted in trying to be optimistic for the team as Canucks fans. But optimism should be balanced with a sense of reality, which is something felt people here have kind of lost a bit. They are too optimistic and defensive of the team anyone criticizing them is met with hostility.

 

Here's the thing, going back to Ownership and Management, why should they get the blame on what is happening on this team. If we as fans were contended for so long in our bubble of arrogance thinking this team was a good team, why should FA, Allvin, and Rutherford think otherwise? 

 

I guess lesson here is as Canucks fans is not to make the same mistake as before and be more open minded with the analysts people who do this for a living. It turns out guys like Thomas Drance were right all along and many of us here were off the mark.

Well said.

 

Post of the year.

[Sativika]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:59 PM, iinatcc said:

I don't really create threads here, but, during the course of the season ( and I suppose offseason) there's been a lot of people here blaming either the management, the owner, the players, the coaching staff or all of the above. Whether it was Benning's fault, Aquilini's, Rutherford and Allvin's, Green. Bruce, Horvat, Miller, and the list goes on. 

 

And with good reason the team isn't good and everyone in the Canucks organization past and present share the blame in this. 

 

But I don't want to talk about them since there are sections and threads dedicated to each person already.

 

What I really want to is about us whether or not we share the blame, as fans and members in "Canucks Twitter' or I guess the diehard Canucks fans, on the failures of the organization. 

 

Before any of you ask me what I am talking about let me just list a few observations I've had in this forums over the years:

(Note: I am not to debate or argue each point I will make but I have a bigger point after listing out a few things)

 

• Virtanen for the longest time people here were stubborn to admit that Ehlers or Nylander were better players than Virtanen. Even going as far as calling the latter two one dimensional and going as far as discrediting some of the analysts who agree our initial expectations of Virtanen (Ferraro comparing Virtanen to Hansen and our reaction here is one example).
• People here still claiming that Benning is a good drafter even though nothing suggests that when you look at the players that failed to hit past the 1st round (something analysis in TSN and Sportsnet have pointed out) 
• OEL is a #1 defenseman and he is at a good contract that will age well. Even though his trajectory doesn't indicate that is not the case from various people in the media including analysts whose job is to cover the Coyotes. 
• I remember here people saying they would take Podkolzin over Zegras because, apparently, Zegras has character issues. 
• The way we like to character assassinate former Canucks players like Gaudette or McCann (even if it's warranted or not)
• People here in saying the defense of this team is good enough, even people saying Myers is a better player and contract than Adam Larsson even though, as things look now, its seems people are more in denial than anything. Heck people were saying how point out the Canucks GAA the latter part of last season to defend the team's defense even though advanced stats show the reason for that was mostly Demko and Canucks give up a lot of high danger chances. 
• The reports that the Canucks' locker room have a country club atmosphere from Nick Kypreos and people here were ready to pounce on him even distastefully showing a video of him getting knocked out. Turns out those reports might have actually some bearing. 
• Everyone was blaming last season on the Coaching specifically Green. Even though the team just wasn't good. Now on Bodreau's 1st full season it's clear the issue of the team was not primarily due to coaching 
• Our predictions on the standings this season thinking Canucks will be Top 3 of the division because the players will take step forward while dismissing teams like Vegas and LA Kings saying they will slide down even though they have a proven track record the current Canucks' core do not have. Like how could we make the assumption that every Canucks player is going to take a step forward and no one is going to regress and, for whatever reason, a team like Vegas would not bounce back and LA, and their veteran core and young players, would also take a step forward? 
• Of course the many predictions professions from hockey Analysts to Vegas odd makers (who do predictions based on their model) people here seem to scoff off because the Canucks aren't on their prediction to make the playoffs. 

 

I know I am at the risk of generalizing everyone here with what I listed. I don't intend to I know some people have differing opinions on some of those points but big picture that is the feeling I am getting here of being close minded and accepting our own unprofessional opinions about the team as truth (more more true) than the professionals who do this as a living either as hockey analysts, insiders, or reporters.

 

Like I said I am not going to argue each point here but my point is all these example lead to one thing arrogance, denial, and perhaps we created a little bubble for ourselves that has, only recently, has begun to burst.

 

People here like bashing anyone from Sportsnet, TSN, or otherwise if they say something about the Canucks people here do not agree with. And all these criticism, from my memory, has basically prophesied where the Canucks are in right now. As someone from Sportsnet said (paraphrasing) "what arrogance do we have to scoff or ignore people who do this for a living" he was talking about the Vegas odd makers who build the analytical models on seeing the trajectory of each team but it hold true to how us here tend to discredit the professional experts and instead created the bubble for ourselves that everything is fine.

 

Look I understand a lot of this is rooted in trying to be optimistic for the team as Canucks fans. But optimism should be balanced with a sense of reality, which is something felt people here have kind of lost a bit. They are too optimistic and defensive of the team anyone criticizing them is met with hostility.

 

Here's the thing, going back to Ownership and Management, why should they get the blame on what is happening on this team. If we as fans were contended for so long in our bubble of arrogance thinking this team was a good team, why should FA, Allvin, and Rutherford think otherwise? 

 

I guess lesson here is as Canucks fans is not to make the same mistake as before and be more open minded with the analysts people who do this for a living. It turns out guys like Thomas Drance were right all along and many of us here were off the mark.

Wow. Well written, well thought out thread, dude. There is one paragraph here that stood out to me that pretty much nails most of us in CDC............

 

....."Look I understand a lot of this is rooted in trying to be optimistic for the team as Canucks fans. But optimism should be balanced with a sense of reality, which is something felt people here have kind of lost a bit. They are too optimistic and defensive of the team anyone criticizing them is met with hostility....."

 

To be honest, when your team is playing so inconsistently as they have been this season thus far, well.........it's hard not to be judgemental. I, and many others in CDC can't help to be passionate about our Canucks. We luv 'em too much. And therein lies the reason behind the myriad of criticism; Optimistic, pessimistic, realistic, terrific, horrific, or whatever.

 

By and large, we're an impatient bunch in CDC. We want results right now and we search for reasons why we're not getting 'em.

[Goal:thecup]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:59 PM, iinatcc said:

We need to talk about ... blah blah blah

No.

No we don't.

[Harold Drunken]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:33 AM, Zerofaith said:

The Canucks as a franchise don’t have an identity. This leads to division in the fan base on everything, with either side staunchly defending their own positions. 

So incredibly accurate though.

[EddieVedder]

18 hours ago, Zerofaith said:

 

 

Like I said this team has no core identity that gets passed down as players change. The closest thing in recent years would be “bunch of nice guys” identity sadly

Well when you have hughes and boeser dressing up like bunny rabbits no one is taking you seriously 

[Petterson649]

On 12/21/2022 at 1:59 PM, iinatcc said:

I don't really create threads here, but, during the course of the season ( and I suppose offseason) there's been a lot of people here blaming either the management, the owner, the players, the coaching staff or all of the above. Whether it was Benning's fault, Aquilini's, Rutherford and Allvin's, Green. Bruce, Horvat, Miller, and the list goes on. 

 

And with good reason the team isn't good and everyone in the Canucks organization past and present share the blame in this. 

 

But I don't want to talk about them since there are sections and threads dedicated to each person already.

 

What I really want to is about us whether or not we share the blame, as fans and members in "Canucks Twitter' or I guess the diehard Canucks fans, on the failures of the organization. 

 

Before any of you ask me what I am talking about let me just list a few observations I've had in this forums over the years:

(Note: I am not to debate or argue each point I will make but I have a bigger point after listing out a few things)

 

• Virtanen for the longest time people here were stubborn to admit that Ehlers or Nylander were better players than Virtanen. Even going as far as calling the latter two one dimensional and going as far as discrediting some of the analysts who agree our initial expectations of Virtanen (Ferraro comparing Virtanen to Hansen and our reaction here is one example).
• People here still claiming that Benning is a good drafter even though nothing suggests that when you look at the players that failed to hit past the 1st round (something analysis in TSN and Sportsnet have pointed out) 
• OEL is a #1 defenseman and he is at a good contract that will age well. Even though his trajectory doesn't indicate that is not the case from various people in the media including analysts whose job is to cover the Coyotes. 
• I remember here people saying they would take Podkolzin over Zegras because, apparently, Zegras has character issues. 
• The way we like to character assassinate former Canucks players like Gaudette or McCann (even if it's warranted or not)
• People here in saying the defense of this team is good enough, even people saying Myers is a better player and contract than Adam Larsson even though, as things look now, its seems people are more in denial than anything. Heck people were saying how point out the Canucks GAA the latter part of last season to defend the team's defense even though advanced stats show the reason for that was mostly Demko and Canucks give up a lot of high danger chances. 
• The reports that the Canucks' locker room have a country club atmosphere from Nick Kypreos and people here were ready to pounce on him even distastefully showing a video of him getting knocked out. Turns out those reports might have actually some bearing. 
• Everyone was blaming last season on the Coaching specifically Green. Even though the team just wasn't good. Now on Bodreau's 1st full season it's clear the issue of the team was not primarily due to coaching 
• Our predictions on the standings this season thinking Canucks will be Top 3 of the division because the players will take step forward while dismissing teams like Vegas and LA Kings saying they will slide down even though they have a proven track record the current Canucks' core do not have. Like how could we make the assumption that every Canucks player is going to take a step forward and no one is going to regress and, for whatever reason, a team like Vegas would not bounce back and LA, and their veteran core and young players, would also take a step forward? 
• Of course the many predictions professions from hockey Analysts to Vegas odd makers (who do predictions based on their model) people here seem to scoff off because the Canucks aren't on their prediction to make the playoffs. 

 

I know I am at the risk of generalizing everyone here with what I listed. I don't intend to I know some people have differing opinions on some of those points but big picture that is the feeling I am getting here of being close minded and accepting our own unprofessional opinions about the team as truth (more more true) than the professionals who do this as a living either as hockey analysts, insiders, or reporters.

 

Like I said I am not going to argue each point here but my point is all these example lead to one thing arrogance, denial, and perhaps we created a little bubble for ourselves that has, only recently, has begun to burst.

 

People here like bashing anyone from Sportsnet, TSN, or otherwise if they say something about the Canucks people here do not agree with. And all these criticism, from my memory, has basically prophesied where the Canucks are in right now. As someone from Sportsnet said (paraphrasing) "what arrogance do we have to scoff or ignore people who do this for a living" he was talking about the Vegas odd makers who build the analytical models on seeing the trajectory of each team but it hold true to how us here tend to discredit the professional experts and instead created the bubble for ourselves that everything is fine.

 

Look I understand a lot of this is rooted in trying to be optimistic for the team as Canucks fans. But optimism should be balanced with a sense of reality, which is something felt people here have kind of lost a bit. They are too optimistic and defensive of the team anyone criticizing them is met with hostility.

 

Here's the thing, going back to Ownership and Management, why should they get the blame on what is happening on this team. If we as fans were contended for so long in our bubble of arrogance thinking this team was a good team, why should FA, Allvin, and Rutherford think otherwise? 

 

I guess lesson here is as Canucks fans is not to make the same mistake as before and be more open minded with the analysts people who do this for a living. It turns out guys like Thomas Drance were right all along and many of us here were off the mark.

I appreciate the effort for the lengthly post. Just want to inform you that our opinion as fans have minimal to no impact on the product on the ice.

 

People have opinions and it’s human nature to stick to it. Also hindsight is 20/20

[OldFaithfulCap]

Note the Drance rt

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by OldFaithfulCap
s

[Provost]

Apology accepted.....

[lmm]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:39 AM, Zerofaith said:

 

you can't find me, because I am hiding in a paper bag

[lmm]

On 12/23/2022 at 7:47 AM, EddieVedder said:

Well when you have hughes and boeser dressing up like bunny rabbits no one is taking you seriously 

pics?

[Hairy Kneel]