chon derry Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, IBatch said: Gretzky considered retirement twice. Once his shoulder and more seriously his back. LA both times. The fact remains that he battled through it. However he wasn’t battling Hodgkin’s lymphoma so some slack can be given to Lemieux but thats all I give him Edited February 1, 2023 by chon derry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Yep. Raymond and Hanhuis were both out. (and Rome was suspended for the final 4 games) They haven't been mentioned much, because we've been focused on who was playing hurt. Why is that relevant to what is being discussed here? This is what defenseman played in the final and how many games they played. Edler 7 Salo 7 Bieksa 7 Ehrhoff 7 Hamhuis 1 Alberts 6 Rome 3 Tanev 3 Ballard 1 Raymond also played 6 games. Totally Irrelevant information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, johngould21 said: I'm agreeing with you on this. If the '11 team had any semblance of a healthy top 4 d, they would have won games in Boston. IMO, Hamhuis being injured early in the series was the difference. And I'm not in any way trying to denigrate the '94 squad. It was a team with 1 superstar, a very solid supporting cast and a few heart and soul guys, like Momesso, Hunter and Gino....I also think adding Robert Dirk at the deadline was a shrewd move. At the time, it looked odd, but as the playoffs went on, he proved his worth....as did guys like Diduck and Glynn. But it was a team that finished the regular season with 85 points and the #7 seed in the West. Mostly, I'm arguing against this narrative that the 2011 squad choked. I think injuries and lights out play from Thomas were the reason they lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said: I'm constantly surprised who don't seem to grasp those rather simple facts. I think it stems from viewing the two teams through the lens of an underdog team, that got hot at the right time and exceeded expectations....and a dominant team that failed to meet expectations. You can see right in this very debate.....people are willing to cite the '94 injury situation, but it gets sloughed off for the 2011 squad, even though it was far worse... Absolutely, by the end of it the Canucks were pretty battered. We'll likely never know the true extent of the injuries but we do know about some. Mikael Samuelsson was lost in Game 3 of the Western Conference Semi-Finals against the Nashville Predators, after he injured his abductor tendon and sports hernia. That was a big hit to our offense, he'd been a 50 point forward during the regular season and put up good playoff production during his time in Detroit and during the previous season with us. Christopher Higgins blocked a shot in the third period of Game 5 against the Predators. He had been playing with a presumably broken foot since. Christian Ehrhoff was injured in Game 3 of the Western Conference Finals against the San Jose Sharks, when he was hit hard into the boards by Jamie McGinn. In order to play in the Stanley Cup Finals, Ehrhoff had his shoulder shot up with painkillers in every game. All three wound up having surgery. Ryan Kesler reportedly played with both a groin tear and hip labrum tear, which were suffered late in Game 5 against the Sharks. Dan Hamhuis was lost in Game 2 of the Stanley Cup Finals, after he tore his groin muscle from throwing a thunderous hip check on Bruins forward Milan Lucic. Mason Raymond, of course, was lost in Game 6 to a vertebrae compression fracture after he was awkwardly driven into the boards by Bruins defenseman Johnny Boychuk. 39 points in 70 regular season games, 8 points in 24 games before going down. Hurt our depth. Alex Edler was the other casualty in Game 6, as he broke two fingers in the third period. He played through it in Game 7 and logged 26:20. Those are the injuries that we know of so far, but based on the words of Canucks forward Jeff Tambellini, there must have been more. "There were probably shooting six guys up [for Game 7]," he said. Andrew Alberts was also rumoured to have been injured in Game 6 after leaving the game late in the third period. Earlier in the series, Sami Salo was slow to get up after falling awkwardly. It’s possible he could have suffered a groin injury. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/735243-2011-stanley-cup-finals-injuries-too-much-to-overcome-for-the-canucks Our D and forward depth was definitely impacted, there were likely injuries to players like the twins and so on that didn't get out. But yeah, Kesler being as injured as he was was devastating for both our offensive game and defensive game. Not having Sammy or Raymond hurt our wing depth. Alternatively, the Bruins were healthy for the most part. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2011/06/16/bruins-stayed-mostly-injury-free-during-run-to-the-stanley-cup/ Edited February 1, 2023 by Coconuts 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Why is that relevant to what is being discussed here? This is what defenseman played in the final and how many games they played. Edler 7 Salo 7 Bieksa 7 Ehrhoff 7 Hamhuis 1 Alberts 6 Rome 3 Tanev 3 Ballard 1 Raymond also played 6 games. Totally Irrelevant information. I'm not sure what you think is being discussed.... I was discussing the reasons the Canucks couldn't finish off that series with a victory. Playing injured is absolutely relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 47 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Not saying other players aren't playing well defensively. but those other players also don't have emotional outbursts....errr, i mean "passion". Am I getting it right? It’s been noted on here (stats included) that Bo and Millers defensive games are at par. The other thing is , you / we have no idea how Miller might react to this .. my guess is he shows Tochett he can take charge and make an even better impression on the young core that have stepped up to mimic his game aggressively,. Not Horvats. That punch to Garlands Face , right in front of Horvat, was a knife twisting in JR’s ribs.. Horvat doing nothing showed he did it deserve to lead. I hope the Captaincy goes to Miller. I can almost guarantee Miller is traded in 3-4 years, not because of decline,. But because of assets needed if we aren’t a playoff bound team. He will bring an even better deal and better 1st round pick than what Horvat has. Time for Miller to shine !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, EdgarM said: OK I'll bite. Who specifically cost us the Cup in 2011? Which injury was the one that did it? I am pretty sure all of the key guys played except for Hamhuis. Lui got the boot in a couple of games was he injured too? I think we set the record for the least amount of goals scored with 8 was it in a SCF? This with two of the best offensive guys in the league and when we had the most potent PP? Go ahead, I will wait................................ It was the accumulation of injuries. Not just one. They overcame losing Samuelsson early and Malhotra missing from the playoffs. Played injured - Henrik - back Kesler - shoulder and groin Higgins - broken foot Edler - broken fingers Ehrhoff - shoulder Bieksa - knee Out - Malhotra Raymond Hamhuis Samuelsson Rome (suspended) Samuelsson was a big loss in the second round. Losing Hamhuis in finals was a huge blow. He was our best defensive d-man, top D penalty killer, and contributed offensively as well. Our two offensive d-men were both playing with injuries that effected shooting/passing. Our D was gutted with injuries and Rome's suspension certainly didn't help that. But the flip side to our low total goals, and something that largely goes ignored, is Thomas also set a record for saves in a SC final. So it's not like scoring opportunities weren't there. Thomas was red hot in the finals and kept the Bruins in every game. Against a hot goalie + too many injuries and we still made it to game 7. I still believe if we got there just somewhat healthy we would have beat the B's. After the first two games, and losing Hamhuis, I honestly believed our only real hope of winning was Lou playing like a Vezina goalie. Lou did for 3 of the 7 games. Thomas on the other hand played like a Vezina goalie in all 7. We outshot the Bruins 246 to 225 in the series. We outshot them 37-21 in game 7. Good teams overcome a key injury or two. The Nucks laundry list of injuries was just too long to overcome. There were just too many injuries. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 20 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Imagine getting hit/checked with broken ribs? Messier was all over Linden cross checking him and i bet he knew Linden was injured too. But Linden never quit and was still able to perform like a Warrior. Apparently the broken ribs was a viscious attack by Messier on Linden far away from the play . no ref or camera caught it .. id be happy to proven wrong though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 Horvat will be representing the Islanders at the All Stars but will also be representing the pacific division… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Absolutely, by the end of it the Canucks were pretty battered. We'll likely never know the true extent of the injuries but we do know about some. Mikael Samuelsson was lost in Game 3 of the Western Conference Semi-Finals against the Nashville Predators, after he injured his abductor tendon and sports hernia. That was a big hit to our offense, he'd been a 50 point forward during the regular season and put up good playoff production during his time in Detroit and during the previous season with us. Christopher Higgins blocked a shot in the third period of Game 5 against the Predators. He had been playing with a presumably broken foot since. Christian Ehrhoff was injured in Game 3 of the Western Conference Finals against the San Jose Sharks, when he was hit hard into the boards by Jamie McGinn. In order to play in the Stanley Cup Finals, Ehrhoff had his shoulder shot up with painkillers in every game. All three wound up having surgery. Ryan Kesler reportedly played with both a groin tear and hip labrum tear, which were suffered late in Game 5 against the Sharks. Dan Hamhuis was lost in Game 2 of the Stanley Cup Finals, after he tore his groin muscle from throwing a thunderous hip check on Bruins forward Milan Lucic. Mason Raymond, of course, was lost in Game 6 to a vertebrae compression fracture after he was awkwardly driven into the boards by Bruins defenseman Johnny Boychuk. 39 points in 70 regular season games, 8 points in 24 games before going down. Hurt our depth. Alex Edler was the other casualty in Game 6, as he broke two fingers in the third period. He played through it in Game 7 and logged 26:20. Those are the injuries that we know of so far, but based on the words of Canucks forward Jeff Tambellini, there must have been more. "There were probably shooting six guys up [for Game 7]," he said. Andrew Alberts was also rumoured to have been injured in Game 6 after leaving the game late in the third period. Earlier in the series, Sami Salo was slow to get up after falling awkwardly. It’s possible he could have suffered a groin injury. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/735243-2011-stanley-cup-finals-injuries-too-much-to-overcome-for-the-canucks Our D and forward depth was definitely impacted, there were likely injuries to players like the twins and so on that didn't get out. But yeah, Kesler being as injured as he was was devastating for both our offensive game and defensive game. Not having Sammy or Raymond hurt our wing depth. Alternatively, the Bruins were healthy for the most part. https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2011/06/16/bruins-stayed-mostly-injury-free-during-run-to-the-stanley-cup/ .............and yet........... I don't see Danny's, Hank's or Roberto's name anywhere on that injury list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tas Posted February 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2023 how on earth has this devolved into a debate about who played hurt a dozen years ago? only on CDC. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SilentSam Posted February 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2023 And in the name of Love !! 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Baggins said: It was the accumulation of injuries. Not just one. They overcame losing Samuelsson early and Malhotra missing from the playoffs. Played injured - Henrik - back Kesler - shoulder and groin Higgins - broken foot Edler - broken fingers Ehrhoff - shoulder Bieksa - knee Out - Malhotra Raymond Hamhuis Samuelsson Rome (suspended) Samuelsson was a big loss in the second round. Losing Hamhuis in finals was a huge blow. He was our best defensive d-man, top D penalty killer, and contributed offensively as well. Our two offensive d-men were both playing with injuries that effected shooting/passing. Our D was gutted with injuries and Rome's suspension certainly didn't help that. But the flip side to our low total goals, and something that largely goes ignored, is Thomas also set a record for saves in a SC final. So it's not like scoring opportunities weren't there. Thomas was red hot in the finals and kept the Bruins in every game. Against a hot goalie + too many injuries and we still made it to game 7. I still believe if we got there just somewhat healthy we would have beat the B's. After the first two games, and losing Hamhuis, I honestly believed our only real hope of winning was Lou playing like a Vezina goalie. Lou did for 3 of the 7 games. Thomas on the other hand played like a Vezina goalie in all 7. We outshot the Bruins 246 to 225 in the series. We outshot them 37-21 in game 7. Good teams overcome a key injury or two. The Nucks laundry list of injuries was just too long to overcome. There were just too many injuries. .................and Hank and Danny only scoring 1 goal each and Luongo getting pulled from 2 games had nothing to with it. OK got it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, EdgarM said: .............and yet........... I don't see Danny's, Hank's or Roberto's name anywhere on that injury list. I'll break it down in simple terms so you might understand Forward depth = injured to all hell = more pressure on remaining forwards to produce = shut down the twins and Burrows and you probably win Forward depth = injured to all hell = makes it easier for Boston's largely healthy team to shut down Selke caliber 2C = injured = negatively impacts both the team's offensive and defensive game, puts more strain on other forwards like Henrik, Daniel, Burrows, ect Defense largely injured + Selke caliber 2C + having made the run without their stud defensive 3C in Malhotra = easier for Boston's largely healthy team to score, play in the offensive zone and so on Defense impacts goaltending Team barely scores and yet the series somehow makes it to seven games, hmm, maybe it's not all on goaltending 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerofaith Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Going to miss Bo. I have a shirt with his name on it -- thought he'd be part of the long term core. The return is about what I expected, if not a little better. Beauvillier is for cap, but I prefer him over an aging player like Bailey coming back. Raty is a decent prospect. The 1st should be better than what we would have received from any other team. 10 or so spots can make a big difference. The defense wasn't addressed, but that was never going to be the case, at least in terms of immediate help. No team trying to win is going to send us a D. Hopefully we use one of our 1sts to fix that problem. Decent return value-wise, but none of this would have happened if we just traded Miller last deadline like we should have. A 2nd, a 3rd and a mid first for a player of BH caliber. Questionable trade imo, seems like a knee jerk reaction to the terrible circus show management created by choices made in the off season which created a rift in the locker room and ate up available cap space leaving the captain out to dry. Certainly a giant middle finger from Horvat to PA/JR when he refused to be strong armed into signing a below value deal. Good for him for not giving those clowns a pass. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Coconuts said: I'll break it down in simple terms so you might understand Forward depth = injured to all hell = more pressure on remaining forwards to produce = shut down the twins and Burrows and you probably win Forward depth = injured to all hell = makes it easier for Boston's largely healthy team to shut down Selke caliber 2C = injured = negatively impacts both the team's offensive and defensive game, puts more strain on other forwards like Henrik, Daniel, Burrows, ect Defense largely injured + Selke caliber 2C + having made the run without their stud defensive 3C in Malhotra = easier for Boston's largely healthy team to score, play in the offensive zone and so on Defense impacts goaltending Team barely scores and yet the series somehow makes it to seven games, hmm, maybe it's not all on goaltending = a bunch of useless EXCUSES! Maybe if Hank had some broken ribs or something I MIGHT get it. OK I am done, thanks for the chat, buh bye now. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Zerofaith said: A 2nd, a 3rd and a mid first for a player of BH caliber. Questionable trade imo, seems like a knee jerk reaction to the terrible circus show management created by choices made in the off season which created a rift in the locker room and ate up available cap space leaving the captain out to dry. Certainly a giant middle finger from Horvat to PA/JR when he refused to be strong armed into signing a below value deal. Good for him for not giving those clowns a pass. Knee jerk? Everyone has known they were going to move Bo....it's been talked about for weeks, if not months. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, tas said: how on earth has this devolved into a debate about who played hurt a dozen years ago? only on CDC. We love arguing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Apparently the broken ribs was a viscious attack by Messier on Linden far away from the play . no ref or camera caught it .. id be happy to proven wrong though Actually he was already playing with the rib injury when Messier gave him a cheap shot. It certainly didn't help his ribs any though. I can't remember who but one of the players talked about everybody being inspired to play hard from hearing Linden scream getting shots for the pain before game 6 and game 7. So I think it actually happened in game 5. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: We love arguing? and rehashing things that couldn't be less relevant from literally decades in the past. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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