[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[Ted Lasso]

15 minutes ago, Toews said:

Great, so we have established that one that does not have to "stand up for a teammate" in order to be an effective captain. Considering that you aren't referring to Henrik as a "spineless captain", I am going to categorize this as an inconsistent argument as it seems like you are arguing that if his name was Horvatsson you would have given him a pass for it. Your expectations of Horvat have no bearing on whether Bo was actually a good captain or not.

I have no problem with a captain who isn't a bruiser, I had no issue with either Naslund or Henrik being captain or the guy that will eventually take the mantle in Pettersson not fitting the mold either.

 

Again you have no evidence that there was any "saving energy". There are legitimate criticisms of Bo's play which I have already outlined. 

No need to be respectful, after all you have chosen to use the handle of Kenny Powers. 

 

Also I never did declare my "love for a player", I was just ranting on the fickleness of fans. It was just plain hyperbole but you seem to be intent on interpreting that literally.

I haven't yet seen any actual evidence for an deficiencies as a captain, all of it is conjecture. I felt like he was a good captain, you think he was not. Neither of us has any evidence to disprove the other. 

The sample size is too small to declare that his contributions have not and will not be missed. Also considering the team will have a healthy Demko and a better blue line next year I am optimistic that we won't miss him too much. That doesn't mean that he did not bring value or was not a good captain. The Isles have caught fire since Bo was traded despite the injury to one of their best players, but I won't exactly proclaim that this is because of Bo.

More conjecture, you have no evidence that the way Horvat answered the media had any bearing on his responsibilities as a captain or his conduct in the lockerroom.

I grow tired of the logical inconsistencies in your posts like Bo being North American and being bigger than Henrik makes him an enforcer in your eyes. That and most of your arguments are not based in facts but are half-baked theories like he wasn't giving it all out there. What exactly was he holding himself back for?

 

You seem determined to vilify Bo, likely because he didn't sign here and for an amount that you deemed to be reasonable. You are the one that is coming across as jilted ex, so the "unrequited love" seems like a projection. I have chosen to move on and will respect the guy for his contributions while still appreciating the return we got for him. I have my closure, you on the other hand still seem to have a lot emotion to unpack about this entire affair.

You still going? Thought you were done?

 

Settle down and enjoy the game. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[Toews]

Just now, Kenny Powers said:

You still going? Thought you were done?

I thought I was too until you stated I was "tired of trying to defend my emotional post". Seemed like you wanted to antagonize me into continuing so here we are. 

[Ted Lasso]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

I thought I was too until you stated I was "tired of trying to defend my emotional post". Seemed like you wanted to antagonize me into continuing so here we are. 

Games on

 

 

 

[BenDrinkin]

Whatchew guys crowing on about, it was a good trade.

[Toews]

1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said:

Games on

 

 

 

Tired of defending an emotional post? 

[Ted Lasso]

23 minutes ago, BenDrinkin said:

Whatchew guys crowing on about, it was a good trade.

It was a great trade. Buddy got his panties in a twist cause I don’t miss Bo.

[SilentSam]

5 hours ago, Toews said:

Glad you liked my post, but I don't have any experience reading any 'Romance Novel'. You can certainly share your experiences however.

How do you know? Has any one in the lockerroom or any of his coaches criticized him for his leadership or the effort that he gave while on the ice. I prefer evidence rather than conjecture.

Good, Bo learned from the best and passed that on to the players that came after him. We were lucky to have him bridge the gap between the old core and the new one. 

I didn't want him back for 8.5M either and I have already been on record in this thread saying this trade was better than anything I could have hoped for. I am just appreciative of what the guy contributed over his tenure.

And I would rather have McDavid or Mackinnon. If we are wishing upon a star might as well go for the best. 

Lol..    I doubt if  @Kenny Powers and I have been “hen pecked” like that for 20-30 years ..

 

Thank you ..   you wear your heart on your sleeve .  I appreciate that.

[SilentSam]

[Ted Lasso]

53 minutes ago, Toews said:

Tired of defending an emotional post? 

That really bugged you, hey?

 

You’re so frothy that you’re writing another romance novel about Bo, instead of watching the game.
 

Sorry, I couldn’t get through your last post. Too long, too repetitive and too illogical. You’re all over the ice.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Last 19 games since the trade:

 

JT Miller - 22 points

 

Bo Horvat - 9 points 

 

Thank God we kept the better player. I mean it’s not even close really. Miller is a 1C/2C. Horvat is a 2C/3C. 
 

Miller will rise to the top again next season and will be pushing for 100 points. Horvat will be in the 55 point range, maybe 60 points if the stars align and Barzal has a career year. 
 

Miller is also at ~60% in the faceoff circle and playing a matchup role against the other teams best players.  So basically Miller took over Horvat’s position on the team plus on top of that has increased his point production along the way. 

[GhostsOf1994]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Last 19 games since the trade:

 

JT Miller - 22 points

 

Bo Horvat - 9 points 

 

Thank God we kept the better player. I mean it’s not even close really. Miller is a 1C/2C. Horvat is a 2C/3C. 
 

Miller will rise to the top again next season and will be pushing for 100 points. Horvat will be in the 55 point range, maybe 60 points if the stars align and Barzal has a career year. 
 

Miller is also at ~60% in the faceoff circle and playing a matchup role against the other teams best players.  So basically Miller took over Horvat’s position on the team plus on top of that has increased his point production along the way. 

I keep comparing Beauvillier & Horvats stats since the trade

 

Beauvillier 16 in 20gp

Horvat 9 in 19gp

 

Add a Hronek

 

and a pinch of Raty 8pts in 15gp, TYVM 

 

Voila!

[48MPHSlapShot]

You know, I was never the biggest Horvat fan in the world, and I'm happy with what we recieved in the trade, but we don't need to keep sh#%$ng on the guy either. He was our captain when it was a pretty crappy time to be, and despite all of the failure, none of which was on him, he did lead our team to the best playoff run we've had since 2011.

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

You know, I was never the biggest Horvat fan in the world, and I'm happy with what we recieved in the trade, but we don't need to keep sh#%$ng on the guy either. He was our captain when it was a pretty crappy time to be, and despite all of the failure, none of which was on him, he did lead our team to the best playoff run we've had since 2011.

So, BO had zero fault with our lack of success under his leadership?  Zero?

 

Also, what about all of the posters who sh*t on Miller for the last 6 months, on a daily basis, watching his every play and move.  Meanwhile, BO could do no wrong in their eyes.  You think that was fair and warranted?  We had to hear that crap for months, and now the roles have been reversed.  What goes around comes around.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's a weird dynamic at this point in time. Most folks here wish Bo well, but not tooo much on ice, as it justifies our deal even more.

 

OTOH if the Isles made it through a rd or two, it could be great. Imagine they matched up with Canes & ousted them(entirely possible); then somehow won another round. The Wings received pick could end up being 28th or 29th, & wouldn't THAT be a beaut? For Hronek, you have to feel that would lessen the pressure that he must set the world on fire. If he's not the other half in trade, of some huge name, he could gradually elevate his game to high-end contribution. The whataboutery gets extinguished immediately.

[48MPHSlapShot]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So, BO had zero fault with our lack of success under his leadership?  Zero?

 

Also, what about all of the posters who sh*t on Miller for the last 6 months, on a daily basis, watching his every play and move.  Meanwhile, BO could do no wrong in their eyes.  You think that was fair and warranted?  We had to hear that crap for months, and now the roles have been reversed.  What goes around comes around.  

I think it's been pretty well established that our lack of success was due to shit management. 

 

As far as the second part of your post goes, that sounds pretty petty tbh. I we were talking about someone that f$$%ed over the franchise somehow then maybe it would be warranted, but we're talking about Bo Horvat here. Maybe his leadership style was too stoic, but he conducted himself with class while he was here. 

[Junkyard Dog]

6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think it's been pretty well established that our lack of success was due to shit management. 

 

As far as the second part of your post goes, that sounds pretty petty tbh. I we were talking about someone that f$$%ed over the franchise somehow then maybe it would be warranted, but we're talking about Bo Horvat here. Maybe his leadership style was too stoic, but he conducted himself with class while he was here. 

Shitting on a player because other people shit on a different player is petty and irrational. If you do that you're worse than those you're complaining about.

 

Probably should just move on. Seems like a giant waste of time and energy. 

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's a weird dynamic at this point in time. Most folks here wish Bo well, but not tooo much on ice, as it justifies our deal even more.

 

OTOH if the Isles made it through a rd or two, it could be great. Imagine they matched up with Canes & ousted them(entirely possible); then somehow won another round. The Wings received pick could end up being 28th or 29th, & wouldn't THAT be a beaut? For Hronek, you have to feel that would lessen the pressure that he must set the world on fire. If he's not the other half in trade, of some huge name, he could gradually elevate his game to high-end contribution. The whataboutery gets extinguished immediately.

I don’t think anyone is “wishing” Bo anything.…. And is “wishing” really a factor in anything? 

I think most here see the Reality of this player.
 

The exception being the wishing by Bedard fans.  

             Wishes don’t work.

 

              Bo’s “game” was easy to see.

The Reality of Horvats game is , and was on the surface..  he is not a “driver”..  not worth 8.5 x 8.

And really his role here was popular because of fandom,  but his game was not comparable to anything representing something special in the entire league.

 

The deal was a steal for us,   STEAL.

 

Management new what Horvat wanted when the season started,  and Horvat did not waiver from it.  
The Team put him in a position to pump his numbers for a better return,  just in case Bo wished to push negotiations to the TDL.

 

I think The Isles were always interested,  and our return from them rose as Horvats game did..  but what he produced in a half season with us, was a work of art by management.

 

Placing Horvat, a complimentary player,  

with a Driving player like Miller, or EP induced points,.   No differently than placing Anson Carter with the Sedins.

 

Hroncek will prove to be a great contributor, something needed on our D..

He has the “drive” to do that himself,  and proved that already,  the fact is , I think his game can be better, as he is just entering his prime years.

We have a top 2-3 proven D man , with upside, for an unknown 1st rnd pick..

Moreso, he fills the exact void we have in our D core.

Thats a steal in itself.

 

 

 

Beauviller is another complimentary player,  but was never given or in a position to perform well with the Isles.

As its turning out ,  playing with EP driving, Beau is outperforming Horvat..  for 4.5m ?

..another steal.

 

Raty,.  I think he is a driver in development,

will crack the Canucks lineup late next season , or the season after..  He will have the time to be his best for us, no rush on him.

Aggressive , motivated, great shot, tenacious..

I do hope Miller is still here in 3 years to help extract the best out of him..  they play the same,  Raty is just fresh.

  

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by SilentSam

[Ted Lasso]

Bo was a class act, and good player. While I agree we don’t need to shit on him, we don’t need to romanticize him either.

 

The critiques of him as a captain are valid, as are the valuations on his contributions vs salary expectations.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[Boudrias]

19 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I don’t think anyone is “wishing” Bo anything.…. And is “wishing” really a factor in anything? 

I think most here see the Reality of this player.
 

The exception being the Bedard fandom’s.

 

              Bo’s “game” was easy to see.

The Reality of Horvats game is , and was on the surface..  he is not a “driver”..  not worth 8.5 x 8.

And really his role here was popular because of fandom,  but his game was not comparable to anything representing something special in the entire league.

 

The deal was a steal for us,   STEAL.

 

Management new what Horvat wanted when the season started,  and Horvat did not waiver from it.  
The Team put him in a position to pump his numbers for a better return,  just in case Bo wished to push negotiations to the TDL.

 

I think The Isles were always interested,  and our return from them rose as Horvats game did..  but what he produced in a half season with us, was a work of art by management.

 

Placing Horvat, a complimentary player,  

with a Driving player like Miller, or EP induced points,.   No differently than placing Anson Carter with the Sedins.

 

Hroncek will prove to be a great contributor, something needed on our D..

He has the “drive” to do that himself,  and proved that already,  the fact is , I think his game can be better, as he is just entering his prime years.

We have a top 2-3 proven D man , with upside, for an unknown 1st rnd pick..

Moreso, he fills the exact void we have in our D core.

Thats a steal in itself.

 

 

 

Beauviller is another complimentary player,  but was never given or in a position to perform well with the Isles.

As its turning out ,  playing with EP driving, Beau is outperforming Horvat..  for 4.5m ?

..another steal.

 

Raty,.  I think he is a driver in development,

will crack the Canucks lineup late next season , or the season after..  He will have the time to be his best for us, no rush on him.

Aggressive , motivated, great shot, tenacious..

I do hope Miller is still here in 3 years to help extract the best out of him..  they play the same,  Raty is just fresh.

  

 

 

I have to admit I am getting antsy to see Hronek play at least 10 games before the season ends. If he can anchor the 2nd pairing then we really have something. Meyers is likely gone. Can Hronek stabilize OEL’s game is likely the question to ask. Is there a LD in the works that can take the 2 LD away from OEL ?
 

IMO Hughes has moved past the thought that he needs a partner to back his d side game. Each season his overall game gets better. What I am trying to say is that if Livingstone signed with Vancouver Hughes could be the vet that helps him establish his NHL game. 

[Ballisticsports.]

11 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Last 19 games since the trade:

 

JT Miller - 22 points

 

Bo Horvat - 9 points 

 

Thank God we kept the better player. I mean it’s not even close really. Miller is a 1C/2C. Horvat is a 2C/3C. 
 

Miller will rise to the top again next season and will be pushing for 100 points. Horvat will be in the 55 point range, maybe 60 points if the stars align and Barzal has a career year. 
 

Miller is also at ~60% in the faceoff circle and playing a matchup role against the other teams best players.  So basically Miller took over Horvat’s position on the team plus on top of that has increased his point production along the way. 

Imagine the outrage if we had just traded cheaper and younger Beau, Raty and a 1st round pick (Hronek) for 2 months for an unsigned Bo on an overachieving year ?

(If you wanna overpay on retirement contracts, you can find those like Calgary did without giving up assets)

Finally Canucks getting returns that make sense