[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

Hughes is underrated defensively and still continues to get better, which is crazy. Hronek has also improved defensively, apparently. They'll have the puck so often. Great passer with great shot. Gotta give them a go.

Hughes has definitely worked on his defensive game and shown more responsibility on that end. No argument here. 
 

But, I think it’s better for him and the team as a whole to have him partnered with a more defensive minded player. 
 

Just my opinion. 

Maybe Hughes and Hronek will be lights out on both ends of the ice, but having two similar offensive, smallish guys together may not be the safest top pair. 
 

Get what I’m saying? 

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Imagine the Petey line on with Hughes and Hronek when we need a goal.  We'd be all the over the ice.  And the PP too.  With Hronek, we could play the PP with 2 Dmen now.  Miller could just play the bumper and we put Hronek in Miller's spot for the one timer...

I'm here for this.

 

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Hughes has definitely worked on his defensive game and shown more responsibility on that end. No argument here. 
 

But, I think it’s better for him and the team as a whole to have him partnered with a more defensive minded player. 
 

Just my opinion. 

Maybe Hughes and Hronek will be lights out on both ends of the ice, but having two similar offensive, smallish guys together may not be the safest top pair. 
 

Get what I’m saying? 

Absolutely. If PA can land one, I'm super into this idea. 

[ronthecivil]

6 hours ago, RWJC said:

I’m not putting words in any mouths.

if any plans for this major rebuild that people propose have been presented on CDC where they involve keeping EP or QH, please show me them. Even if it doesn’t involve keeping them, please enlighten us all with your armchair GM methodology.

 

I’d rather see someone formulate a plan or solution for all their complaints and post that to CDC for critique, but we don’t get that. None of you are confident enough in your rebuild ideology to put yourselves in that position…to be ridiculed like you are so quickly able to do to others.

 

thats the inherent problem…all this rebuild rhetoric…what’s your f**king plan?!?!? Let’s hear something thorough and constructive for once on how you achieve it.  How many years does it take, who do you target, where do you project other clubs to be over that period.
 

Ya know, the same shit you expect of the team mgmt, who actually know how to manage the full compliment of a pro sports corporation. 
 

please I’m begging for your concepts.

maybe then you might develop some further acceptance of your “plight”.

The plan? Moneyball!!!!

 

You do this plan forever. Focus on drafting and development. Want the deepest most complete team ever.

 

When a person needs a contract extension, and they aren't worth the money they are asking, and it's not even close, you trade them for prospects and picks.

 

If they are good, and want a reasonable contract you sign them, and be happy about that.

 

If you have tons of propects from doing this system for years, the person that say wanted six million when they are worth four? You don't care! You replace them with someone making one million that has been lighting it up in the AHL.

 

You never rebuild. You never retool. You never sign people at the deadline for a final push. You just build and build and build and build. You never stop building. You never trade away picks or prospects. You hoard them all to yourself. You trade away malcontents and dollar chasers for more picks and prospects. Your so deep there's always a next man up. And a few more than that.

 

You always have a kid line kicking ass at low cost. They spent a couple year in the AHL building chemistry. They literally push the vets for minutes. They are ready to take over the team should the first line fail, get too expensive, or whatever.  

 

You are open to taking on the occasional bad contract if it comes with picks and prospects.

 

It's not a perpetual rebuild. Players that are worth the money you keep. On the Canucks, Quinn Hughes has a big contract, and he is worth every penny.

 

For example, in Detroit, Steve Y, who I think knows a thing or two, who just fleeced us, and who has an existing team better than us, just fleeced us. Likely he knows that Hronek wants a lot more money. So why negotiate? Just trade away for more picks! Same deal Bertuzzi, And at the same time he signed Larkin long term for a good deal. That guy is awesome. 

 

My plan is to copy him. The guy that built the Tampa Bay Lightening. The guy that even if Detroit fans think he is wrong, quickly realize it's probably themselves that is wrong.

 

Tampa has a fantastic farm system despite being a great team that can trade away JT millers for picks and prospects because the team was so deep, and still win the Stanley Cup.

 

Money ball. That plan. 

 

 

[snolan]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:08 PM, TheQuietQuitter said:

I guess the point I was trying to make to the OP is that using a player's +/- rating, who has been on a bad team his entire career, isn't the best indicator in trying to assess a player or his value in a trade.

 

As for the bolded part, I believe this has everything to do with easing the offensive pressure off of Hughes.  

Hronek as a second pairing RHD, PP2 Quarterback, with the ability to play 20 mins and fill in for Hughes in case of injuries is a bigger deal than most are realizing.

 

As for OEL I think that trade had nothing to do with his intangibles and everything to do with trading bad away contracts.

Just saying the same thing again doesn't really refute what I said - it's a factor, like all things there are many factors. It is daring to simply, strictly ignore the stat. Generally, when someone is minus -87 over 5 years, it should give some pause to question if they are making players around them better, or what is up with the defensive liability of typically being in the bottom 5 of bad a team in the stat.

 

Sorry mate the other things you are saying don't even realy make sense, the OEL one in particular.

 

That trade wasn't to move bad contracts... I believe all the players traded had a year left and we took on salary for term in a greater amount for OEL + Garland (not even discussing how scary OELs contract was at the time it was taken on). 

Hughes doesn't need his offensive pressure eased, especially "why now" (or was that just a random bold, I legitimately can't tell). A more realistic thought is they just realy wanted Hronek. Hughes play should not matter at all for making a trade at the deadline.

His play, that is a maybe, and what we'll see. I'm not sold. I think the Canucks are taking on more of the risk on this, if what you think will happen, happens looks good. There's probably an equally good chance we could be seeing Hronek at his pinnacle, like I'd say PP2 probably wasn't the area of weakness that we should be addressing...... who knows all we have on future play is opinions.

 

It sort of seems like you are just making shit up to seem over confident in your stance.

 

Gluck. Hope the trade works out. I don't think it's a slam dunk, Detroit must not either or else you wouldn't get all the gold being touted for a 1st and a high 2nd. Guess thats a nature of a trade though.

[ronthecivil]

6 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Well realistically if he went to Arizona , it’s 8-10 years away from contending.

 

McDavid as an example,  was drafted 8 years ago..    Phoenix is in worst shape.

 

Would be a shame for the league to have that happen.

 

 

It's a shame for the league that Phoenix has a hockey team. Better markets with better arenas exist. It's bad league politics mixed with stubboness that has created that abomination. 

[HighOnHockey]

@J.I.A.H.N and others...

 

Hmmmm, maybe the draft is not the only possible way to acquire a top four RHD after all...

[ronthecivil]

6 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

In 1992 this is what it took to get Eric Lindros .................

 

• Steve Duchesne
• Peter Forsberg
• Ron Hextall
• Kerry Huffman
• Mike Ricci
• Chris Simon
• Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1993
• Philadelphia's 1st round pick in 1994
• $15 million

2 picks, Demko and Jurmo gets you hung up on.

LOL that trade. Makes me sad Quebec moved to Colorado and quickly won the cup. Forsberg was better on his own lol!

 

Malcontent? Want to much money? You win! Trade you I do for the biggest boat of picks and prospects available!

 

Best thing that ever happened to that team. Set them up for like forever.

[JeremyCuddles]

20 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Hughes has definitely worked on his defensive game and shown more responsibility on that end. No argument here. 
 

But, I think it’s better for him and the team as a whole to have him partnered with a more defensive minded player. 
 

Just my opinion. 

Maybe Hughes and Hronek will be lights out on both ends of the ice, but having two similar offensive, smallish guys together may not be the safest top pair. 
 

Get what I’m saying? 

It's a long shot, but my hope is Livingstone might have the chops to play with Hughes. If Schenner can manage it, I am sure this guy can handle it. At the very least he'll have a chance to prove himself next season. Assuming he signs with us. Then we can slap Hronek alongside OEL who is a fine top 4 two way guy at this point in his career. Then we can use Bear and whatever jobber they slap on 3rd pair LD. Rathbone's last chance with us possibly.

[ronthecivil]

6 hours ago, jyu said:

The equivalent would be,

 

JT Miller (Duchesne)

4th overall pick (Michkov or Carlsson roughly Forsberg in value)

Demko (Hextall)

Lazar (Huffman)

Podkolzin (Ricci -- former high 1st round pick playing with good two way game)

Joshua (Simon -- Joshua isn't an enforcer but as close as we have at the moment)

2024 1st

2025 1st

15 million dollars

 

Whichever team that makes this trade with us will win the cup in 3-4 years like the Avs.

 

I like it. If it gets us Bedard, mortgage the future!!

 

Ya, imagine a fake reality where the Canucks win the draft lottery. If someone offers something like that, you freaking do it. The deeper and more skill you have, the better. Always be building.

[ronthecivil]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

The window to fix their two big mistakes ......Miller and Boeser

If they do that all is forgiven. They are free from cap hell. They might even get more picks! 

 

They can use their discretion dealing with OEL and Myers, both of which, as noticed with OEL out, are actually an upgrade for being out!

 

Funny idea I came up with the my neighbours at the game. Trade Myers and cap releif Ferlund for (his words a bucket of pucks and some paint) or in real terms a seventh rounder.

 

You get a big right D for cheap that way! We can sell that can't we?

 

Do all three and I start drinking the koolaid again and love this trade because were free from cap prison and a extra year on a dman or a slightly higher contract for a good player are less of a problem.

 

Move out the garbage, draft and develop, always be building.

[ronthecivil]

53 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

Well we are keeping with tradition by trading our picks, we might as well keep with tradition and go on our yearly winning streak at the end. Why this team tries so hard after they are out of it is beyond me. Then the fans who say this winning will do wonders come out and guess what, it don't mean crap.

Trading some of their buddies away will deflate the tires, don't worry.

 

Despite what Hughes says, and I like the player and the contract, don't matter. If he becomes a malcontent, just wait for the moon and stars offer, and that's the end of that.

 

I am fed up with the forever mediocrity, and want to replace it with a meritocracy.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, tas said:

people said the same when it was gaunce, jensen, horvat, shinkaruk, corrado, hutton, cassels and subban. 

Not me. I laughed when so many here were saying Shinkaruk was our future top line winger and Corrado our future top 4 d-man. I really laughed when some were in a panic over Gaunce not being protected in the expansion draft. The only one I was high on was Horvat. I was optimistic with Hutton when he arrived. But once he got his raise and showed up to camp way overweight that optimism vanished.

[WestCoastDave]

I would have prefer  the two picks because the Islander pick and high second are good places to be in a strong draft.   However, the Nucks were desperate to fix the right side D even with the high cost.  Credit goes  to Yzerman for selling high on Hronek.

[cripplereh]

2 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

Ya, imagine a fake reality where the Canucks win the draft lottery. If someone offers something like that, you freaking do it. The deeper and more skill you have, the better. Always be building.

Can't do trades like that anymore as now there is a cap.We win we couldn't afford more then picks and prospects.

 

 

Way it is Bedard we would keep.

[cdgraham]

To anyone complaining about giving up a draft pick in this scenario, this trade was essentially bo horvat + a 2nd for beauvillier, raty, & Hronek. That's pretty good if you ask me

[ronthecivil]

9 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

To anyone complaining about giving up a draft pick in this scenario, this trade was essentially bo horvat + a 2nd for beauvillier, raty, & Hronek. That's pretty good if you ask me

The problem is that is was temporarily better.

 

If this guy turns out good, and we sign him to a good contract, it might be a salvage.

 

If we dump 18M in salary tommorrow, I become the biggest fan of this trade.

 

It's not a value thing, it's a timing thing, and it's a cap thing.

 

The optics are about as bad as it can get. If it's major surgory, sure, but finish the procedure.

 

I can think of 18M plus of cap space to be gone by noon tomorrow. If that happens I freaking love this trade.

[eeeeergh]

31 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

The problem is that is was temporarily better.

 

If this guy turns out good, and we sign him to a good contract, it might be a salvage.

 

If we dump 18M in salary tommorrow, I become the biggest fan of this trade.

 

It's not a value thing, it's a timing thing, and it's a cap thing.

 

The optics are about as bad as it can get. If it's major surgory, sure, but finish the procedure.

 

I can think of 18M plus of cap space to be gone by noon tomorrow. If that happens I freaking love this trade.

Timing: we have EP/QH/TD in a 5 year window ish. 
 

There simply wasn’t time to try to draft a top 4 rhd, hope we hit, and develop them in that window 

 

trading for the position was the only way 

 

we’re stacked on scorers 

 

what we need now is a couple good penalty killers, incl. someone like Jost who can be our 3C. 
 

We can also develop our own penalty killers in that window WAY easier than a top 4 RHD. 
 

imagine our current lineup, minus a couple wingers, add Jost, and a couple defensive defensemen.

 

all of a sudden we’re near the top of the division 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

4 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

It's a long shot, but my hope is Livingstone might have the chops to play with Hughes. If Schenner can manage it, I am sure this guy can handle it. At the very least he'll have a chance to prove himself next season. Assuming he signs with us. Then we can slap Hronek alongside OEL who is a fine top 4 two way guy at this point in his career. Then we can use Bear and whatever jobber they slap on 3rd pair LD. Rathbone's last chance with us possibly.

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I'm wondering about the impact a good transition defenseman like Hronek could have on OEL as a D-partner. Would make zone exits much easier and make his play less...*ahem*... chaotic...

[cripplereh]

1 hour ago, cdgraham said:

To anyone complaining about giving up a draft pick in this scenario, this trade was essentially bo horvat + a 2nd for beauvillier, raty, & Hronek. That's pretty good if you ask me

QH says nobody on the team wants a rebuild but rather a retool  and he supports it. 

 

We need a bit more help doing so but so far we are closer to making us a playoff team with more to come. 

 

 

This coming draft ten players should be able to make the NHL,we should be getting a top 10 pick which will help.  

 

Livingstone and others in the off season will help. 

 

We could see this team turn the corner sooner then later.

Edited March 3, 2023 by cripplereh

[KoreanHockeyFan]

2 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

QH says nobody on the team wants a rebuild but rather a retool  and he supports it. 

 

We need a bit more help doing so but so far we are closer to making us a playoff team with more to come. 

 

 

This coming draft ten players should be able to make the NHL,we should be getting a top 10 pick which will help.  

 

Livingstone and others in the off season will help. 

 

We could see this team turn the corner sooner then later.

Don't forget about Johansson!