[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, jyu said:

lol comparing to Seguin is not helping you support your claim. If Miller pulls a Seguin in a few years, it doesn't matter if it's 8 mil or 10 mil that he's making, everyone will be wanting him gone. 

 

I agree with the rest though. Miller is and has been a better player than Horvat in general aside from a few mental lapses that he has been prone to in the past. He has cut down on a lot of those since Tocchet took over and he's looking like a complete player.

 

Horvat with his deal signed will likely focus on playing within the system as he has done all his career. He's never cheated for offence until this season when he found out what the initial offer was from the Canucks. As he builds chemistry with Barzal, he will still be scoring 30 goals and might be pushing to around 70 points but assists and playmaking were never his strong suit so 30 goals 50-70 point player.

 

 

 

Cheating the game is not what players in wining teams do. Bo was our captain and was cheating the game so he could score more. That’s brutal. He wanted to be our highest paid player. Glad we moved him out and ended up with Hronek.

[jyu]

10 hours ago, R3aL said:

I’m not so sure of that. In regards to Bear / Livingstone in the top 4. Hughes on the ice with anyone has not hurt us and if we have a super solid Gavrikov-Hronek pair and a league average or strong third pair with Demko and a much more solid structured team play system it would be a massive upgrade to what we’ve had past few years.

 

the numbers have been strong for Hughes-Bear but that’s more about Hughes than anything. 
 

I like Millers impact much more than Parayko. I’m not a Parayko fan he’s looked very slow and vulnerable as of late. 
 

it would be like adding another OEL in my opinion.

 

and if we trade Miller we have a huge 2-3C hole.

 

i know some people think miller ain’t a C but he’s shown he can be. He matches up insanely with Matthews and with our coaching staff working closely with him, a strong system short shifts and having a guy like mikehyev riding shotgun with him next season he’s much more valuable to our team than Parayko in my opinion 

Adding Gavrikov to play with Hronek alone will make us so much better overall.

 

Yes, I'd bring Schenn back at around 1.25 x 2/3 years and have him be partner for Hughes for a year or two until we find a proper long-term replacement. That's 45 minutes per game where we can put one of the two top pairings. If OEL is not retiring or going on LTIR, giving him a partner that has good puck retrieval is important. Bear does bring that and so does Dermott if they can stay healthy.

 

We are going for the playoffs so we should not be trading Miller unless we find a 1C/2C replacement in this draft that can jump in right away (i.e., Bedard or Fantilli).

 

[jyu]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Cheating the game is not what players in wining teams do. Bo was our captain and was cheating the game so he could score more. That’s brutal. He wanted to be our highest paid player. Glad we moved him out and ended up with Hronek.

Yes. This entire season has been very revealing.

 

It goes to show that when the management doesn't have the right priorities and doesn't have the coach that they believe in, the wheels can fall off.

 

The constant complaints about Boudureau from Rutherford were unprofessional. IMO, it played a role in how Bruce coached and how the team played as a result.

 

With a coach that knew his days were numbered and the team captain not getting rewarded for his loyalty in the way of a lucrative contract, it was a ripe environment for a team of individuals playing for themselves. 

 

I think the lion's share of the blame falls on the feet of the management for what transpired this season and not on a coach or a single player. They got off to a terrible start to their tenure. Even Allvin admitted in his press conference, he takes the blame for the terrible on-ice performance. He also said he wasn't happy to trade Bo Horvat only that he was happy with the returns. It wasn't Bo's fault or Miller's fault or Bruce's fault. It was Allvin and JR's decision to go with the status quo instead of making shrewd moves that were necessary last off-season or was it Francesco again?

 

Now the team has come together under Tocchet. Miller is playing with better focus overall and it is showing on the ice. And the management is more decisive with their moves.

 

If they can clear enough cap space so that we can acquire a top 4LD, we may have a playoff team. If OEL retires on the LTIR, then we will have the extra cap space to upgrade the bottom 6 and might do some damage in the weaker Western Conference.

 

By the way, the only two players that did not let anything get in their way of performing and putting in the best effort were 40 and 43. They should be co-captains really.

 

[EddieVedder]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Watched a lot of Islander games after the Bo trade. He’s back to his regular 50-60 point self. Brock Nelson is a much better player than Bo. 

There you go being senile again.

[RUPERTKBD]

4 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Bo Horvat: 0.675 points per game in his career 

MZ: .778 points per game 

FF: 0.829 points per game 

TH: .675 points per game 

Brayden Schenn: .678 points per game 

RNH: .773 points per game 

 

Bo Horvat is making more money than all of his true comparable (RNH at 5.2, BS at 6.5, TH at 8) 

Cherry on top? Matt Barzal who has played his entire career with that “defense first team” has put up 0.86 points per game. And is being paid only slightly more than Bo

Contracts are negotiated on current numbers. That's why you always hear about players wanting to put up numbers in contract years...."betting on themselves", etc...

 

Whether you believe Horvat is going to revert to his former scoring levels or not, the fact is he's putting up good numbers right now and it's why Lou gave him the deal that he did.

[RUPERTKBD]

6 hours ago, R3aL said:

The bottom dwelling teams need contracts like his and he’s a big rhd I think it’s gonna happen

I hope you're right.....

[Mustard Tiger]

Hughes-Livingstone

Gavrikov-Hronek

Defensive dman- Jacob Bernard-Docker

 

It's not my problem what the Canucks do with Myers or OEL. That's their problem 

 

[eeeeergh]

15 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Contracts are negotiated on current numbers. That's why you always hear about players wanting to put up numbers in contract years...."betting on themselves", etc...

 

Whether you believe Horvat is going to revert to his former scoring levels or not, the fact is he's putting up good numbers right now and it's why Lou gave him the deal that he did.

*Was putting up great numbers for 2/3 of a season, and has now reverted back to the mean. Hes not putting up 8.5 million dollar numbers right now, in New York. 

 

The reality is more nuanced than you suggest. Its more similar to the reason why Benning shipped out a 1st ++ and took on OEL. He knew it was his last kick at the can, a rebuild was simply not feasible for Benning where he was at in his career as GM. Waiting a year for the bad contracts to fall off wasn't even feasible for Benning. I would argue that Lou is in the same place in NY, in his career but also in his age (80 years old). Lou also has a recent habit of offering players contracts that end up being bad value for his franchise (see Zach Parise and Kyle Palmieri). 

 

Tldr: Lou like many GMs before him, and like himself before himself, offered a player "too much money, for too many years"- Lou, 2023

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

*Was putting up great numbers for 2/3 of a season, and has now reverted back to the mean. Hes not putting up 8.5 million dollar numbers right now, in New York. 

 

The reality is more nuanced than you suggest. Its more similar to the reason why Benning shipped out a 1st ++ and took on OEL. He knew it was his last kick at the can, a rebuild was simply not feasible for Benning where he was at in his career as GM. Waiting a year for the bad contracts to fall off wasn't even feasible for Benning. I would argue that Lou is in the same place in NY, in his career but also in his age (80 years old). Lou also has a recent habit of offering players contracts that end up being bad value for his franchise (see Zach Parise and Kyle Palmieri). 

 

Tldr: Lou like many GMs before him, and like himself before himself, offered a player "too much money, for too many years"- Lou, 2023

Exactly! Bo was cheating the game with us, and trying to put up points while not playing the right way. He got his big payday. And now he's back to the 50-60 point player he's been his entire career. Out of that we got Hronek. A 25 year old, top pairing, right shot D, who will anchor our second pairing for the next 7-10 years. Plus, we got Beau and Raty.  That's winning for us!

[RUPERTKBD]

13 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

*Was putting up great numbers for 2/3 of a season, and has now reverted back to the mean. Hes not putting up 8.5 million dollar numbers right now, in New York. 

 

The reality is more nuanced than you suggest. Its more similar to the reason why Benning shipped out a 1st ++ and took on OEL. He knew it was his last kick at the can, a rebuild was simply not feasible for Benning where he was at in his career as GM. Waiting a year for the bad contracts to fall off wasn't even feasible for Benning. I would argue that Lou is in the same place in NY, in his career but also in his age (80 years old). Lou also has a recent habit of offering players contracts that end up being bad value for his franchise (see Zach Parise and Kyle Palmieri). 

 

Tldr: Lou like many GMs before him, and like himself before himself, offered a player "too much money, for too many years"- Lou, 2023

A joke, as you are well aware.

 

Bad contracts are handed out all the time....it's why Horvat got the deal he did. It's where the market is and just because you disagree with the market, NHL GMs don't share that luxury. They have to deal with reality.....not your assertion that someone is not worth what the market dictates.

[eeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

A joke, as you are well aware.

 

Bad contracts are handed out all the time....it's why Horvat got the deal he did. It's where the market is and just because you disagree with the market, NHL GMs don't share that luxury. They have to deal with reality.....not your assertion that someone is not worth what the market dictates.

I dont think ive asserted, Ive provided some pretty good evidence that hes not worth what he got from Lou. 

 

As you just noted, bad contracts are handed out all the time, and paying a guy 90 point money for 50-60 point production sure smells like one. 

 

Im not trying to trash Horvat at all as much as it may sound like it. Hes a great player, and was and always will be one of my favorite Canucks. Im just glad we arent the NYI and commit 8.5m/year over 8 years to a 50-60 point player.

[eeeeergh]

6 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

A joke, as you are well aware.

 

Bad contracts are handed out all the time....it's why Horvat got the deal he did. It's where the market is and just because you disagree with the market, NHL GMs don't share that luxury. They have to deal with reality.....not your assertion that someone is not worth what the market dictates.

Also, others dont seem to think it was a joke.

 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

I dont think ive asserted, Ive provided some pretty good evidence that hes not worth what he got from Lou. 

 

As you just noted, bad contracts are handed out all the time, and paying a guy 90 point money for 50-60 point production sure smells like one. 

 

Im not trying to trash Horvat at all as much as it may sound like it. Hes a great player, and was and always will be one of my favorite Canucks. Im just glad we arent the NYI and commit 8.5m/year over 8 years to a 50-60 point player.

You absolutely have....you keep calling him a 50-60 pt player.

 

It's entirely possible that that is what he will be, but you don't know that. It's also possible that his current season is an indication of a career trending upward. That's why Lou had to give him the deal he did.

[R3aL]

45 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I hope you're right.....

ima hoping and Ima praying

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

You absolutely have....you keep calling him a 50-60 pt player.

 

It's entirely possible that that is what he will be, but you don't know that. It's also possible that his current season is an indication of a career trending upward. That's why Lou had to give him the deal he did.

Bo Horvat is currently on 50.02 point pace with New York.

 

In 2021-2022 he scored 52 points in 70 games - 60 point pace

2020 - 39 points in 56 games - 56.5 point pace

 

Over his entire career (including his outlier year) he's scored at a 55 point pace. 

 

 

Am I trashing Miller for calling Miller a point per game player, even though he scored 99 points in 82 games?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

You absolutely have....you keep calling him a 50-60 pt player.

 

It's entirely possible that that is what he will be, but you don't know that. It's also possible that his current season is an indication of a career trending upward. That's why Lou had to give him the deal he did.

If Bo is trending upward, as you suggest, why are his numbers (since joining the Islanders) reflecting a 50-60 point player?  

[CanucksJay]

11 hours ago, Provost said:

I don’t think OEL can be moved without a big sweetener and don’t think we should do that.

 

The other guys you move as many or all of them depending on finding takers.

 

Boeser and Garland can be replaced for cheaper and there is a decent chance we could move them without having to include a big sweetener.   We would be lucky to lose them at this point.
 

Teams will be looking for centres, exactly like I mentioned with St. Louis.  Horvat and Larkin are off the market, so not a lot of options.

I think best case scenario is an OEL Hronek pairing working out and a Hughes Myers pairing working out where Hughes and Hronek carry the play while Myers and OEL just worry about steady defense. 

The fact Hughes made. Schenn look this good is a testament to how good Hughes is. 

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Watched a lot of Islander games after the Bo trade. He’s back to his regular 50-60 point self. Brock Nelson is a much better player than Bo. 

Brock is a hell of a player. Like him a lot. I've watched most of their games. Your assessment is pure garbage. Bo is doing exactly what he was brought in to do. Win hockey games. You sound like like an 11 year old who had her favorite  toy stolen at lunch hour and is telling everyone she didn't like it anyway.

 

Pathetic, move on man. I thought you were a Canucks fan. Bo is over there, Hronek is over here. Focus!

 

Not to mention the sample size is sh!t. I can actually understand these comments from big Miller supporters venting because of the slack Miller gets but this is just gross. Attacking a guy like Bo is low, really low after what he gave to this franchise. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Nucker 67]

I hope Bo does well with NYI, he's a good person from what I gather.

 

I'm excited about Hronek though, which really doesn't have anything to do with Bo Horvat. Any idea on when Hronek is able to join his new team?

 

Another tweak or two to the D this off season and next year the Canucks are going to rock. The already good PP will become better, as both units will now have a skilled D skater who can dish the puck, or score. Hronek's shot too. How long has it been since the Canucks had a Dman with a big shot?  Salo?

 

 

[Jester13]

14 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I hope Bo does well with NYI, he's a good person from what I gather.

 

I'm excited about Hronek though, which really doesn't have anything to do with Bo Horvat. Any idea on when Hronek is able to join his new team?

 

Another tweak or two to the D this off season and next year the Canucks are going to rock. The already good PP will become better, as both units will now have a skilled D skater who can dish the puck, or score. Hronek's shot too. How long has it been since the Canucks had a Dman with a big shot?  Salo?

 

 

Looks like Bo's offence has dried up a little over there, but they're winning games still. 

Hronek should be arriving to see our doctors today or tomorrow. Salo, yup. Now we'll have two Salo shots on the team at the same time: Hronek and Petey.