smithers joe Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 owners and management have stated the they are doing a retool, not a rebuild. so what would a successful retool look like in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 To me it means shedding the 30+ year old defenders, moving Miller for someone younger and cheaper, then building around Petey, Hughes and Demko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Zamboni Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 FA is a tool. need new ownership. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) Shipping out veterans and replacing them with younger talent. Bolstering our prospect pool by actually using top picks instead of flipping them out. Out: Miller, Myers, OEL, Pearson. OEL is the guy we'll probably have to wait a while longer on because his buyout isn't very palatable and it'll get easier as time goes on. The other three could be shipped out sooner than later though. Edited March 4, 2023 by Coconuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 55 minutes ago, goalie13 said: To me it means shedding the 30+ year old defenders and building around Petey, Hughes, Miller and Demko. FTFY. Because you do need some veteran presence that can go to bat for the team. He does...he was vocal when he didn't like what was happening with the post COVID schedule, etc. He's not afraid of backlash. Also someone who'll grab a guy who's targeting our guys and is willing to go if need be. Throw players out of our crease (or, as was the case the other night, back them out, face to face). We need more of that, not less of it. Remember...30 isn't 80. Some guys are in great shape at 30+ (depending a lot on lifestyle). Plus, his points are awfully valuable and even a guy like Petey probably appreciates the help there. We shouldn't be so afraid of having an older guy on the team...most teams do. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 For the retool to be successful, I would need to be able to invision a scenario where I could see the Canucks winning a cup. Even if it took a lot of luck and some well calculated moves, it could still be in the realm of possibility. As it stands right now, in my eyes, our last hope is winning the draft lotto this year. If we draft 7-10, it's nearly Impossible for me to invision a cup in our contention window (demkos contract) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 9 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: For the retool to be successful, I would need to be able to invision a scenario where I could see the Canucks winning a cup. Even if it took a lot of luck and some well calculated moves, it could still be in the realm of possibility. As it stands right now, in my eyes, our last hope is winning the draft lotto this year. If we draft 7-10, it's nearly Impossible for me to invision a cup in our contention window (demkos contract) Our idea of success is cup contention. Management's idea of success is to get swept in the first round. What did Sutter call it last year? A "waste of eight days"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 27 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: For the retool to be successful, I would need to be able to invision a scenario where I could see the Canucks winning a cup. Even if it took a lot of luck and some well calculated moves, it could still be in the realm of possibility. As it stands right now, in my eyes, our last hope is winning the draft lotto this year. If we draft 7-10, it's nearly Impossible for me to invision a cup in our contention window (demkos contract) So I guess you are saying 1 player is going to make or break us? What kind of window do you see us having? You say Demko, so would you say 8-9 years is the window with him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 21 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Our idea of success is cup contention. Management's idea of success is to get swept in the first round. What did Sutter call it last year? A "waste of eight days"? In your eyes, what do the two look like? What do we need to do differently to get to "Cup contention" status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 1 minute ago, EdgarM said: So I guess you are saying 1 player is going to make or break us? What kind of window do you see us having? You say Demko, so would you say 8-9 years is the window with him? Yup. With Petey, Demko, Hughes, Hronek we have a 7-10 year window to build winning teams each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWN. Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Coconuts said: Shipping out veterans and replacing them with younger talent. Bolstering our prospect pool by actually using top picks instead of flipping them out. Out: Miller, Myers, OEL, Pearson. OEL is the guy we'll probably have to wait a while longer on because his buyout isn't very palatable and it'll get easier as time goes on. The other three could be shipped out sooner than later though. There in lies the issue with the retool. Like we've both said in so many different posts, you can't shed contracts without sending out pick/prospects. This perpetual retool is destroying the future of sustainable success. We've been retooling in one way or another since 2012. We've traded 3 of our last 4 picks, and 4/6 when you include this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. With Petey, Demko, Hughes, Hronek we have a 7-10 year window to build winning teams each year. Yes totally, and some are freaking out like we have run out of time. Patience, Patience, Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 1 minute ago, MattWN. said: There in lies the issue with the retool. Like we've both said in so many different posts, you can't shed contracts without sending out pick/prospects. This perpetual retool is destroying the future of sustainable success. We've been retooling in one way or another since 2012. We've traded 3 of our last 4 picks, and 4/6 when you include this year. Yeah, this is why I wouldn't be looking to pay to move Myers during the offseason. Retain 50% of his deal at next season's deadline and you likely get a taker. Maybe Pearson sits on LTIR, maybe not, but he's got one season remaining. OEL's buyout hurts sooner than later, it'd be better to bite the bullet and player him 2-3 more seasons before considering a buyout. Miller could be moved, might still be moved if the Canucks handling of him closer to the deadline are any indication. At the very least they were willing to listen and there was a lot of chatter out there, could easily circle back to Carolina or Pittsburgh if they underwhelm down the stretch or during the playoffs. It'd be easier to make the moving parts work with the offseason looming anyway. But yeah, moving out picks to dump contracts is a poison pill I'd rather not continue to swallow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 minutes ago, MattWN. said: There in lies the issue with the retool. Like we've both said in so many different posts, you can't shed contracts without sending out pick/prospects. This perpetual retool is destroying the future of sustainable success. We've been retooling in one way or another since 2012. We've traded 3 of our last 4 picks, and 4/6 when you include this year. I really think there is other issues with OEL , he played well last year. This year has been the exact opposite. I still think he can be usable as he is still just 31, Burns on the other hand , is 37 years old and can still play. Miller is at least usable for the next 4-5 years. The others we can let their contracts run out naturally, therefore not "paying" to rid ourselves of them. So with the picks, Hronek can be usable for the next ,say, 10 years? Does that not say "sustainable success"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWN. Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I really think there is other issues with OEL , he played well last year. This year has been the exact opposite. I still think he can be usable as he is still just 31, Burns on the other hand , is 37 years old and can still play. Miller is at least usable for the next 4-5 years. The others we can let their contracts run out naturally, therefore not "paying" to rid ourselves of them. So with the picks, Hronek can be usable for the next ,say, 10 years? Does that not say "sustainable success"? No. It doesn't say sustainable success because we have one of the worst prospect pools in the entire leauge. Every other team around us is going to have a glutten of high end ELC contracts coming in and making an impact. If you wanna just let the contracts run out, that's great, but our mangement just came out and said they're pushing for the playoffs next year. We can't be pushing for the playoffs without unloading the crap now, they aren't about to wait it out. So how does a team with the highest cap hit, the shallowest prospect pool, and a 27th overall roster... how the f**k do you turn that into a sustainable winning team without selling off draft capital? Please tell me your plan, would love more details than just letting contracts run out, because that doesn't build a winning team either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 27 minutes ago, MattWN. said: No. It doesn't say sustainable success because we have one of the worst prospect pools in the entire leauge. Every other team around us is going to have a glutten of high end ELC contracts coming in and making an impact. If you wanna just let the contracts run out, that's great, but our mangement just came out and said they're pushing for the playoffs next year. We can't be pushing for the playoffs without unloading the crap now, they aren't about to wait it out. So how does a team with the highest cap hit, the shallowest prospect pool, and a 27th overall roster... how the f**k do you turn that into a sustainable winning team without selling off draft capital? Please tell me your plan, would love more details than just letting contracts run out, because that doesn't build a winning team either. Can you be more specific on this: "Every other team around us is going to have a glutten of high end ELC contracts coming in and making an impact." I guess you are going to make a prediction on every other teams prospects that they are going to be successful of making it to the big leagues from the minors? Are you psychic? "Pushing for the playoffs" is not saying we are done building and so we won't be drafting or developing anymore from here on out. Petey and Hughes are just now coming into their primes, Petey just started growing into his man body for ch#$t sakes. Think of the next couple of years as a "transition period" where we: vie for the playoffs, rid ourselves of unwanted contracts, get the core to gain chemistry together, continue to draft and develop, trade when opportunities arise. If our core has say a 8-9 year window to compete, then that still leaves us some good years to vie for a Cup once we get out of this "transition period". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 hours ago, EdgarM said: In your eyes, what do the two look like? What do we need to do differently to get to "Cup contention" status. Go back in time. The team is committed to trying to win with its current core. I suppose they can completely give up and go for a full rebuild, but they should've done that years ago. We are maxed out on cap, which means there's very little room for us to improve. The only way to improve is by trading away good draft picks for players like Hronek. It's essentially an all-in move just to try and squeak into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 3 hours ago, EdgarM said: So I guess you are saying 1 player is going to make or break us? What kind of window do you see us having? You say Demko, so would you say 8-9 years is the window with him? 1 player never makes and breaks a team. But a star player in an elc would certainly do a lot for the success right. Our window is Demko, and that's absolutely not 8-9 years. 25-26 his contract expires and he will no longer be one of the few surplus values this team currently has. Because of the way this team is currently constructed, that's the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 7 hours ago, smithers joe said: owners and management have stated the they are doing a retool, not a rebuild. so what would a successful retool look like in your eyes? LA Kings (now), Boston Bruins(have been able to retool and stay competitive for a decade), St Louis Blues (when they moved on Oshie and Backes then won a cup after), you could argue Rutherford's time with the Pens was also a retool Lesson ... Retools can work if executed properly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Revamp on our D which has started. Trading players like Miller , BB, Myers if you aren't going to play Rathbone then trade him. Sweeteners to deals could be Rathbone, Hogs, Karlsson. Getting a C for second line via trade or ufa. Buyouts players like OEL,Pearson,Poolman Grab some college and university players this off season,maybe another khl player wants to come over. Lots to do but we would have more then enough cap space moving forward plus a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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