DeNiro Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Boudrias said: I won’t argue against your view as this is the history of the Canucks. I think we will have a better view of this Pres and GM attitude by the end of summer. Who do they draft and what players ar3 they able to move out and who comes back. I am already excited for the fall camp. There will be significant changes. I’m excited too and it’s obvious we have a lot of great pieces in place I’m not gonna argue that. I think we were one big piece away though and that was another elite center. It’s just frustrating to see that slip away with less than 20 games to go. But I just hope they can acquire a top young center or D with that first cause I fully expect it to be traded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. If our core was old or very young, then sure the direction should be different. But our core is at the perfect age to build around to have a 5 - 7 year run of high level compete. When have we ever had a great goalie, a fabulous 1C, an excellent 2C, a franchise level 1D, and a high end 2D all either in or just entering their primes? The closest would have been the Twins with Luongo and Kes. They were all older than our current core though. Gillis build a fabulous supporting cast, but the winning was short lived because the core was older. Now our key core is at a much better age. Plus, if we get lucky at the draft and snag another key core piece, when he’s competing at a high level (and requires a cap allocation that represents that) then we can trade the guy he’s replacing. Our immediate future and long term look very bright. We should start a club. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Captain of the Kool aid crew also reporting. #triggered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: We’re missing an elite young center coming up behind Pettersson. This was the draft to get that player. Having a center developing behind Petey means that they’ll be in their prime and ready to take the reins when Pettersson is on the decline. That’s how you keep your window open for longer. This teams development of center and D depth has been pathetic over the years to say the least. But if our pick is around the 10 mark I’m expecting us to trade it for a young center or D. Hopefully we can acquire a good player with it. Because if not I see this teams window being closed in about 4 years. Might get one run in that time if we’re lucky. Petey is going to be a great player for another 8 years. Miller is only 29. He can definitely support Petey in the 2C role for another 5 years. A checking, right shot, 3C is a supporting piece. Gillis found Malholtra. (Left shot, of course, but was a perfect get for that group) This management will find us the right guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said: #triggered Oh sorry. Do you prefer Dr. Kool Aid? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 One thing that has been noticeable over the last few games, is the reduced amount of poor defensive passes in the D zone. Together with the puck support offered the whole dynamic of the team has changed. Also noticeable that Myers has become more defensively aware. He barely crosses the blue line into to O-zone now... For all the sadness of seeing Bruce go, Tocchet has certainly tightened up the ship defensively... one can only wonder if that would have been enough to get the team to the play offs... Its irrelevant now, but it bodes well for the next season. Especially with the addition of Hronek... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Captain of the Kool aid crew also reporting. Tank on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, bh90 said: Problem is the Canucks were never and they can not be as bad as Columbus (due to injuries), Chicago, Anaheim, Arizona, San Jose. Those teams are terrible ... we have superstar/borderline superstars on our team. If we want to compete for bottom spot in the league than we need to get rid of Petey, Hughes, Demko, Miller, Kuzy etc. It was never realistic for the Canucks to be bottom 3 team in the league.... so i really don't understand why people keep getting so frustrated - a lot of "experts" picked the Canucks to make the playoffs this year. If we finish bottom 10 at least we still have a chance of winning the lottery. Bottom 3 finish does not equal a guarantee on Bedard. I think, unless we move up, or are passed by a club moving up (so we drop) we will draft 9OA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Petey is going to be a great player for another 8 years. Miller is only 29. He can definitely support Petey in the 2C role for another 5 years. A checking, right shot, 3C is a supporting piece. Gillis found Malholtra. (Left shot, of course, but was a perfect get for that group) This management will find us the right guy too. See I’d rather Miller move to wing and have that young center develop in that second slot. To me that keeps the window open for much longer and it stacks our top 6. But if that’s not in the cards hopefully we acquire one through trade. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 hours ago, KFan said: Totally agree. This is nowhere near the team that the downers claim is the same thing over and over. Also OUT - Benning and his management team, and Green/Boudreau and their coaching team And IN - Rutherford and his management team, and Tocchet and his coaching team With the exception of most of the core and a few players we can't get rid of because of past management decisions, this is a new team with a different structure. It isn't the same thing over and over. 38 minutes ago, DeNiro said: It’s not about what players you move in and out it’s the method in which this organization continues to build their teams that people have a problem with. They cut corners and throw away draft picks to try and shorten the timeline. It really doesn’t matter what GM and coach are in place when the directive is to constantly push for playoffs before the teams done being built. All that’s gonna equal is another capped out team without good depth to fill in the holes. Yes, you are correct. They are going about it the same way. Cutting corners and trading away picks while being a bottom feeder team, trying to win now at all costs. Is that to say it won't work? No of course not, there is a chance it could work. But, as we've seen demonstrated it can easily go stale and upside down pretty quick. The margin of error is so slim it's pretty much zero. It's why I have been advocating for building the team up through draft picks for once in our existence. Maybe we win a cup in 3 or 4 years this way, but if we don't we're going to be doomed in 5 years and face another 7 year retool/rebuild or whatever you call it with no building blocks to start from ala Gillis. It is the same thing over and over for those of us who are old enough to have lived through the last 20 years+ of Canuck hockey. Will it work? Who knows but it's getting pretty tiresome. All I can say is that I guess it's exciting in that we should at least be competing for something (wildcard) the next few years as compared to knowing we've lost before we start. Only one word comes to mind though ... Impatience. I'm hoping I actually get to see us lay the groundwork for being successful before I die. The SC itself seems like a pipe dream at this point. I don't think people understand just quite how large of a commitment it takes to get there. You need to make sacrifices ... the kind we seem unwilling to make. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I’m excited too and it’s obvious we have a lot of great pieces in place I’m not gonna argue that. I think we were one big piece away though and that was another elite center. It’s just frustrating to see that slip away with less than 20 games to go. But I just hope they can acquire a top young center or D with that first cause I fully expect it to be traded. Totally agree. Depending on possible UFA or NCAA signings might impact the selection especially if the NCAA players get a look see before end of season. A big C would be fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: False. Steve Yzerman is one of the best GMs in the league and he knows how to patiently build up depth and not put the cart before the horse. He could have easily pushed for playoffs this season but he realized he needed more pieces before his team was ready. So he traded two of his best players for futures. Thats the kind of patient approach fans were hoping to see. And that doesn’t mean tear it down, it just means making more rational moves based on where the team is at in their cycle. The best GM in the league who can't do no wrong but, he has a whiff rate of 90% on all his draft picks in Tampa. Including absolute terrible draft record in the 1st and 2nd rounds. I encourage you to look at his draft record as GM if you have not already. So yes his approach may or may not pay off. He is gambling that all these drafts picks he is accumulating will pay off. The reason Yzerman is taking this approach is because he realizes he doesn't have the core superstars on his team to compete - so he is using the lottery to try to find those ... the Canucks already have those. When he went to Tampa Bay - he already had Stamkos and Hedman. And once there, he made moves geared to re-tooling and winning. he also gave out a bunch of bad contract (Callahan, Gourde, Johnson, etc), bad trades, and bad draft choices along the way. He got lucky by finding gems in the 4th and 5th rounds and for Vasilevsky to develop in an all-world goalie. And i stand by my assumption that he got lucky with his draft picks in the later rounds because his draft picks in the first 3 rounds were not very good... so it's not logical to assume he was an awesome talent evaluator. on another note ... Yzerman built a Stanley Cup winning team by striking gold in the later rounds ... well the canucks have plenty of late round picks The point i'm trying to make is that i do no understand why people view Yzerman as the gold standard ... is it because he won Stanley Cups in Tampa Bay as GM? No he didn't, they actually won Stanley Cups after he left... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Oh sorry. Do you prefer Dr. Kool Aid? I know ... I know ... wet blankets have feelings too ... we get it already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: See I’d rather Miller move to wing and have that young center develop in that second slot. To me that keeps the window open for much longer and it stacks our top 6. But if that’s not in the cards hopefully we acquire one through trade. Who gets moved? Some are saying Beau. That pass he made last night to Kuz was extraordinary. Sweeet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, Alflives said: What key core pieces are we missing though? Yes, we need to improve the supporting cast, but the key core is in place. elite goalie elite #1 D elite #2 D Elite #1 C Elite #2 C Our supporting cast is changing over to better. Mik, Kuz, Podz, Aman, Joshua. Yes we need to move on from OEL, Myers, Boeser, Garland. Will happen this summer. Buyout OEL. Trade Myers after his bonus. Trade Boeser with 1.65 retention. Trade Garland. Combined we clear over 20 million in cap with those moves. Lots of room to bring in even better supporting players. We're missing: Reliable Defensive 2C Defensive, PKer 3C Defence, size, and two way players in the top 6 Defence in the bottom 6 PK'ers in the bottom 6 Heavy, gritty, tough minute munching bottom 6 Top 4 RD Top 4 LD Defensive Depth in the bottom D #5 - #9 Backup Goalie (maybe Silovs) ELC contracts / sustainability Depth Other than that we're right up there with the likes of Colorado and Tampa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, DeNiro said: False. Steve Yzerman is one of the best GMs in the league and he knows how to patiently build up depth and not put the cart before the horse. He could have easily pushed for playoffs this season but he realized he needed more pieces before his team was ready. So he traded two of his best players for futures. Thats the kind of patient approach fans were hoping to see. And that doesn’t mean tear it down, it just means making more rational moves based on where the team is at in their cycle. Yeah Stevie Y's moves completely juxtaposes what the canucks would have done. Would we sell high on a top 4 RHD who we could retain as an RFA in 2 years while we were still within striking distance of the playoffs? Most we would have done is status quo and hold Hronek til next season while we try to get into the playoffs this year. But here's the other side of it. Is Det as a team overachieving this year? I was amazed by their turnaround from last year to this year. Will they continue to get better at this current rate? Who do they have? What young players in the 20-25 age group can they build around? Id say besides Seider, Rasmussen , our high end guys are much higher. We have a much better roster which underachieved terribly this year while I would say Det overachieved. This is reminiscent to the canucks bubble year where we took vegas to game 7. The worst thing we did then was buy. I don't think this situation is the same as then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said: Not bad for a hardened criminal eh @King Heffy? Why would I bother watching that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Yes, you are correct. They are going about it the same way. Cutting corners and trading away picks while being a bottom feeder team, trying to win now at all costs. Is that to say it won't work? No of course not, there is a chance it could work. But, as we've seen demonstrated it can easily go stale and upside down pretty quick. The margin of error is so slim it's pretty much zero. It's why I have been advocating for building the team up through draft picks for once in our existence. Maybe we win a cup in 3 or 4 years this way, but if we don't we're going to be doomed in 5 years and face another 7 year retool/rebuild or whatever you call it with no building blocks to start from ala Gillis. It is the same thing over and over for those of us who are old enough to have lived through the last 20 years+ of Canuck hockey. Will it work? Who knows but it's getting pretty tiresome. All I can say is that I guess it's exciting in that we should at least be competing for something (wildcard) the next few years as compared to knowing we've lost before we start. Only one word comes to mind though ... Impatience. I'm hoping I actually get to see us lay the groundwork for being successful before I die. The SC itself seems like a pipe dream at this point. I don't think people understand just quite how large of a commitment it takes to get there. You need to make sacrifices ... the kind we seem unwilling to make. For sure it could very well work this time that’s what we’re all gonna cheer for. But yea if we’re setting up for another short window of success followed by another 7 year retool I can’t go through that again. I wanna see this team follow the model of successful organizations that build up depth to critical mass and then have a constant stream of young talent coming in. When you reach that point you can continue to trade non core players for picks and prospects and continue to cycle in young talent. That along with good drafting can keep a window open for 15 years. But the more you trade those 1sts and 2nds the harder and harder it is to build up that depth. And then you start to see those age gaps between core players and your prospects grow too big. We saw that under Gillis and Benning. That’s what’s always gonna keep leading to these extended retools. I just hope we keep more focus on the future with this management group. That will ultimately decide how many chances this core gets at winning the cup. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Strawbone said: We should start a club. I’ve found your President & CEO. @Primal Optimist 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted March 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Gawdzukes said: We're missing: Reliable Defensive 2C Defensive, PKer 3C Defence, size, and two way players in the top 6 Defence in the bottom 6 PK'ers in the bottom 6 Heavy, gritty, tough minute munching bottom 6 Top 4 RD Top 4 LD Defensive Depth in the bottom D #5 - #9 Backup Goalie (maybe Silovs) ELC contracts / sustainability Depth Other than that we're right up there with the likes of Colorado and Tampa Miller is a very good 2C. We have Mik, Kuz, Aman, Joshua, Podz. Very good support players in their roles. It’s clear we have the key core in place, and they are at the perfect age to build around. We continue building the supporting cast. Yes, we need a right shot defensive minded 3C and a couple other supporting pieces. A lot easier to acquire those pieces than the key core. And we have an excellent key core. 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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