Not a good recipe, it's just not, this team is destined for more failure.

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Ummm yes...2013/2014.  That's when our stated "retool" started.  We have never opted to rebuild.  Yzerman took over in April of 2019, essentially not starting a full season until 2020, or the covid seasons.  It does not matter who was in charge of Vancouver as GM at the time as the message has stayed exactly the same.  retool.

 

Yzerman in his 4 short years has accumulated 40 ish draft picks if you include the very first draft he was GM of in 2019 of which he had zero control over but DID make some trades that net him extra picks in his first draft.  He also has managed to draft 12 NHL worthy players/prospects since 2019s draft.  He currently holds 5 picks in the first 2 rounds this year and one is  the #9 pick and a shot at bedard with 19 total picks over the next 2 drafts.  His teams have drafted 4th, 6th and 8th respectively under him and show signs of progressing with the 3rd line he effectively drafted being labeled at mid season one of the toughest and most productive in the league

 

VS the Canucks who over the same amount of time between two management groups who have drafted a total of 26 times and having 14 total draft picks over the next 2 drafts.  finishing 17th (bubble year) 24th, 18th and 22nd respectively.

 

Both teams stated a chosen direction and both teams have remained on that course regardless of management.  The Red Wings have consistently improved under Yzerman and the Canucks have remained essentially static under the previous and current management group.

 

To say he hasn't shown much while also ignoring the path both teams have remained on is to ignore what he has done vs what our team has done in comparison.

 

Yzerman HAS in fact improved his team in the standings, draft capital, prospects, cap space and talent on the roster.

 

Yzerman has had 4 years with Detroit yes, his 4th full years draft is this year.  

 

I reiterate.  Has in fact improved the Wings without question.

 

You can ask again "what has he done" but I have already pointed out what he has done on a rebuilding path.  He has drafted a top and back up goalie, a top pairing or #1 defenceman.  Numerous prospects defencemen both rhd/lhd, created one of the largest 3rd lines in hockey which was again, the hardest scoring and most prolific 3rd line in the league up to the midway point.  

 

The guy has in fact improved his team and set them up quite well for the future.  In comparison to Jr we can even do a side by side if youd like from Dec last year.

 

Detroit improved their teams position by 6 points.  Accumulated 6 picks.  2 in this years second as well as an additional first while shedding almost $6.4 million in cap since Dec 2021 when JR took over.  

 

Vancouver since Dec when JR took over regressed from last year by 9 points and accumulated net zero picks in fact losing draft capital by again trading away earlier round picks and prospects but accumulating Hronek who is in fact still injured with the same shoulder issue and Raty; but also signing some intriguing NCAA players.

 

If we are going back to around Dec 10th 2021 when JR took over, we can actually see Detroit has in fact been the better managed team in terms of shedding cap, accumulating picks and in fact improving their season. 

Detroit is rebuilding, we're building around our core. You're comparing apples to oranges. The two teams are in different positions on different paths.

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Negative rants over and over again year after year.

Month after month, week after week, day after day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second ... 

 

Always remember, as long as the Canucks never win or are never on the rise in the eyes of the negatives, the negatives will always be right. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[iinatcc]

11 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

I am sick of people posting negatives about the Canucks. Alf wins.  Some of the rest of you should get a hobby. Lol.

 

Negative rants over and over again year after year.  Give it a rest. or how about just go join Drance in the woe is me club.

 

The Canucks are on the rise.  Have added Hronek Hirose Raty Aman Beau Lekk Johansson Karlsson Bear Kuz Mikhaev under the new mngmt in a little over a year.

 

Hughes and Petey have just had break out superstar years.

 

Miller is solid.  Demko is back.

 

But sure.  Just crap all over everything for another year or ten. 

 

Blah.

 

 

I like your optimism but it's a misguided one. I think we've been saying the Canucks have been on the rise for many seasons now it's amounted to nothing.

 

I mean pointing out on individual players is one thing but, as the folks in Sportnet 650 would say, it's all about the results and, eventually, we have to stop making excuses and we just have to accept what the team is. A team that can't get over the hump and make the playoffs. And I think 3 seasons is enough sample set to know what this team is.

 

As Drance would say (paraphrasing) you can rollout the names of the roster all you want but what have they done as a team?

 

on this point

 

11 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

The Canucks are on the rise.  Have added Hronek Hirose Raty Aman Beau Lekk Johansson Karlsson Bear Kuz Mikhaev under the new mngmt in a little over a year.

 

Last Season - 92 points and 5th in the Pacific

This Season - 83 points and 6th in the Pacific

 

If anything the team declined

 

Also the names you mentioned, how many are actually NHL'ers ? 

Edited April 17, 2023 by iinatcc

[Timråfan]

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Ummm yes...2013/2014.  That's when our stated "retool" started.  We have never opted to rebuild.  Yzerman took over in April of 2019, essentially not starting a full season until 2020, or the covid seasons.  It does not matter who was in charge of Vancouver as GM at the time as the message has stayed exactly the same.  retool.

 

Yzerman in his 4 short years has accumulated 40 ish draft picks if you include the very first draft he was GM of in 2019 of which he had zero control over but DID make some trades that net him extra picks in his first draft.  He also has managed to draft 12 NHL worthy players/prospects since 2019s draft.  He currently holds 5 picks in the first 2 rounds this year and one is  the #9 pick and a shot at bedard with 19 total picks over the next 2 drafts.  His teams have drafted 4th, 6th and 8th respectively under him and show signs of progressing with the 3rd line he effectively drafted being labeled at mid season one of the toughest and most productive in the league

 

VS the Canucks who over the same amount of time between two management groups who have drafted a total of 26 times and having 14 total draft picks over the next 2 drafts.  finishing 17th (bubble year) 24th, 18th and 22nd respectively.

 

Both teams stated a chosen direction and both teams have remained on that course regardless of management.  The Red Wings have consistently improved under Yzerman and the Canucks have remained essentially static under the previous and current management group.

 

To say he hasn't shown much while also ignoring the path both teams have remained on is to ignore what he has done vs what our team has done in comparison.

 

Yzerman HAS in fact improved his team in the standings, draft capital, prospects, cap space and talent on the roster.

 

Yzerman has had 4 years with Detroit yes, his 4th full years draft is this year.  

 

I reiterate.  Has in fact improved the Wings without question.

 

You can ask again "what has he done" but I have already pointed out what he has done on a rebuilding path.  He has drafted a top and back up goalie, a top pairing or #1 defenceman.  Numerous prospects defencemen both rhd/lhd, created one of the largest 3rd lines in hockey which was again, the hardest scoring and most prolific 3rd line in the league up to the midway point.  

 

The guy has in fact improved his team and set them up quite well for the future.  In comparison to Jr we can even do a side by side if youd like from Dec last year.

 

Detroit improved their teams position by 6 points.  Accumulated 6 picks.  2 in this years second as well as an additional first while shedding almost $6.4 million in cap since Dec 2021 when JR took over.  

 

Vancouver since Dec when JR took over regressed from last year by 9 points and accumulated net zero picks in fact losing draft capital by again trading away earlier round picks and prospects but accumulating Hronek who is in fact still injured with the same shoulder issue and Raty; but also signing some intriguing NCAA players.

 

If we are going back to around Dec 10th 2021 when JR took over, we can actually see Detroit has in fact been the better managed team in terms of shedding cap, accumulating picks and in fact improving their season. 

If you are trying to compare teams you have to do it with the same period in their ”era”z.

Wich means Detroits first period with Yzerman contra JR or PA.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

If you are trying to compare teams you have to do it with the same period in their ”era”z.

Wich means Detroits first period with Yzerman contra JR or PA.

Ok.

 

Even with that metric, Detroit aside from point totals edges out Vancouver in terms of growth, cap management and draft capital 

[Timråfan]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Ok.

 

Even with that metric, Detroit aside from point totals edges out Vancouver in terms of growth, cap management and draft capital 

Hasn’t PA amassed almost 20 players plus one draft.

How do you compare cap management?

[awalk]

11 hours ago, Baggins said:

Detroit is rebuilding, we're building around our core. You're comparing apples to oranges. The two teams are in different positions on different paths.

3 points apart in the standings. What's so different? We have Petey and Hughes, they have Larkin and Seider. To me, there's a lot of similarities in the teams actual positions. The difference is in the perception of where the team is at, and the apparent plan forward by management and ownership. And only time will tell which plan / approach is the correct or successful one.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, awalk said:

3 points apart in the standings. What's so different? We have Petey and Hughes, they have Larkin and Seider. To me, there's a lot of similarities in the teams actual positions. The difference is in the perception of where the team is at, and the apparent plan forward by management and ownership. And only time will tell which plan / approach is the correct or successful one.

Luck of the draft. There was dead silence at the Rogers draft party when Pettersson was drafted. Who? If you recall fans were hyped about drafting Glass with Vilardi as the very popular 2nd choice. Pettersson was never mentioned. Was it a good thing we dropped 3 spots in that draft. The scouts got one right. We're not doing the same things Detroit is doing because they are rebuilding and we are building. They are trading for futures, we're trading to imrpove now (Bear, Hronek).

 

How many years of Petey, Hughes, and Demko do you want to waste crossing your fingers and hoping draft picks pan out? The Sedins had a small window to compete because it took too long to build the team around them. Toews and Kane had a big window to compete because they came at the end of Chicago's rebuild and a lot was in place already. But picks don't come with guarantees. Chicago took Skille 7th and Barker 3rd just before getting Toews and Kane. Toews and Barker were both 3rd overall picks. You never truly know unitl they reach the NHL. But the faster you build around your young stars the bigger the window they get. You can't simply sit back and depend entirely on draft picks panning out.

 

In the final two weeks Chicago beat Pittsburgh and Calgary, plus an OT loss to Philly. Omg, 5 points! What were they thinking?

[Westcoasting]

20 hours ago, Warhippy said:

How the hell do you get that math of 2025/2026?  You stated "since JR took over" and I posted the side by side from Dec 2021 here.

 

Detroit improved their teams position by 6 points.  Accumulated 6 picks.  2 in this years second as well as an additional first while shedding almost $6.4 million in cap since Dec 2021 when JR took over.  

 

Vancouver since Dec when JR took over regressed from last year by 9 points and accumulated net zero picks in fact losing draft capital by again trading away earlier round picks and prospects but accumulating Hronek who is in fact still injured with the same shoulder issue and Raty; but also signing some intriguing NCAA players.

 

If we are going back to around Dec 10th 2021 when JR took over, we can actually see Detroit has in fact been the better managed team in terms of shedding cap, accumulating picks and in fact improving their season. 

 

By simply posting the improved records or regressed records of each team, the draft capital accumulated or shed, the cap space accumulated or shed.  Detroit IS the better managed team since dec 10th 2021 when JR took over in a side by side comparison between Detroit/Yzerman and Vancouver/Rutherford.

 

As well, nobody is suggesting JR is the man at fault going back to the 2014 season.  What IS being stated is that JR is following the EXACT same mantra of the previous management group of spending to the cap ceiling, RETOOLING; trading for or signing underperforming players 23 and under to "bridge the age gap" and suggesting that this team is a couple of pieces away from competing.  Whereas, Yzerman came in and said we are going to rebuild and he has stuck it it.

 

The side by side comparison between Yzerman and JR as of Dec 10th 2021 is very easily found in the records of each teams trade histories, season finishes; cap space and draft capitals.  That comparison shows Yzerman has been the better manager.  If both teams finish almost identically last year we can even say that If Hronek can not recover from his shoulder injury; if he gets signed to a long term contract that doesn't pan out and or if Yzerman hits on the Islanders pick it is even more skewed towards Yzerman.

 

This can not be called a win by any metric until such time as sufficient time has passed for both teams prospects and trade histories.  But as of RIGHT now since, Dec 10th 2021 the numbers show Yzerman is ahead in terms of successfully bettering his team in the standings, the cap and prospect depth/draft capital.

So after 4 years without any results they are now shedding cap? Lol

[IBatch]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:14 AM, Baggins said:

Detroit is rebuilding, we're building around our core. You're comparing apples to oranges. The two teams are in different positions on different paths.

Actually Detroit and Vancouver started around the exact same time.    Hollands attempt at post Datsyuk/Zetterberg Lidstrom kind of flopped, was flat.  Bertuzzi, Mantha, Larkin ... Yzerman properly assessed and well they are still rebuilding, plus parted ways on most of Hollands stuff. 

[awalk]

21 hours ago, Baggins said:

Luck of the draft. There was dead silence at the Rogers draft party when Pettersson was drafted. Who? If you recall fans were hyped about drafting Glass with Vilardi as the very popular 2nd choice. Pettersson was never mentioned. Was it a good thing we dropped 3 spots in that draft. The scouts got one right. We're not doing the same things Detroit is doing because they are rebuilding and we are building. They are trading for futures, we're trading to imrpove now (Bear, Hronek).

 

How many years of Petey, Hughes, and Demko do you want to waste crossing your fingers and hoping draft picks pan out? The Sedins had a small window to compete because it took too long to build the team around them. Toews and Kane had a big window to compete because they came at the end of Chicago's rebuild and a lot was in place already. But picks don't come with guarantees. Chicago took Skille 7th and Barker 3rd just before getting Toews and Kane. Toews and Barker were both 3rd overall picks. You never truly know unitl they reach the NHL. But the faster you build around your young stars the bigger the window they get. You can't simply sit back and depend entirely on draft picks panning out.

 

In the final two weeks Chicago beat Pittsburgh and Calgary, plus an OT loss to Philly. Omg, 5 points! What were they thinking?

Finding it hard to pick which part of your message to reply to here. I'll try to stay focused on the difference between Detroit and Vancouver and where each team is at currently. Taking off the rose colored glasses, both teams appear to be in a very similar spot. 3 points apart in the standings, and have been doing some form of rebuilding for around the same amount of time. One team is selling for futures, one team is buying for next season. I'm not sure which is the right approach, we'll see in a couple years.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, awalk said:

Finding it hard to pick which part of your message to reply to here. I'll try to stay focused on the difference between Detroit and Vancouver and where each team is at currently. Taking off the rose colored glasses, both teams appear to be in a very similar spot. 3 points apart in the standings, and have been doing some form of rebuilding for around the same amount of time. One team is selling for futures, one team is buying for next season. I'm not sure which is the right approach, we'll see in a couple years.

Do you really think the two are currently in the same position? 

 

[TiTaniuM]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Actually Detroit and Vancouver started around the exact same time.    Hollands attempt at post Datsyuk/Zetterberg Lidstrom kind of flopped, was flat.  Bertuzzi, Mantha, Larkin ... Yzerman properly assessed and well they are still rebuilding, plus parted ways on most of Hollands stuff. 

This. However the major difference is we have 1C,1D and G set with elite players that may be top 5 or easily top 10 in their positions.  Steve Y knows he needs elite players that can make differences when the going gets tight. Hence he is getting rid of players out of sync with his timeline that can recoup 1st rounders. To win the cup you have to have Mckinnons, Makars, Kucherovs, Hedmans type of players and he knows he may not have that in Larkin or Seider. 

[awalk]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Do you really think the two are currently in the same position? 

 

Where it matters.

[hockeyking]

35 minutes ago, awalk said:

Where it matters.

I mean one of the main reason they are there is because of Hronek who is on the Canucks now and we are probably lower than we should be because demko was injured for like half the season. So it's not really that accurate of a picture. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, TiTaniuM said:

This. However the major difference is we have 1C,1D and G set with elite players that may be top 5 or easily top 10 in their positions.  Steve Y knows he needs elite players that can make differences when the going gets tight. Hence he is getting rid of players out of sync with his timeline that can recoup 1st rounders. To win the cup you have to have Mckinnons, Makars, Kucherovs, Hedmans type of players and he knows he may not have that in Larkin or Seider. 

Demko isn't easily top ten, just has a lot of promise.   Jury is still out on that.  Watched so many goalies come in and actually do a lot more over the same time period and fade to give him that handle yet.   Biestra was correct on another thread to point that out no matter how much that may hurt or rub folks the wrong way.   Ranford was unreal in 1990, but didn't stay on top for long,    Murray recently and Binnington.  Sure both PIT and St. Louis fans thought they got a good one.   Craig Anderson is actually about the best I think we can hope for.    Brian Elliot.   Boucher - five consecutive shutouts wasn't good enough to make the PHI goaltending circus since Hextall was around.   

 

Gibson in ANA was wasted.   Now he's pretty much done.   Jones in SJ.    Heck back in the WCE era, Cloutier had 7 shutouts one year ... still his ballon got popped every playoffs.   Demko is a great guy and hope the best for him.   But one good season doesn't mean much in this league.    Goalies are the most fickle players in the league.  He's got time on his side ... but injuries are worrisome.     At this point, he's our number one goalie, needs a couple solid seasons under his belt before labelling anything. 

 

Agree Yzerman knows he's got to draft some impact players.  Larkin and Seider are not enough.    We do have a legit top five center and top 5-8th defenseman.   And some good support players too, Miller is legit right now too.   

[ilduce39]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:01 AM, awalk said:

3 points apart in the standings. What's so different? We have Petey and Hughes, they have Larkin and Seider. To me, there's a lot of similarities in the teams actual positions. The difference is in the perception of where the team is at, and the apparent plan forward by management and ownership. And only time will tell which plan / approach is the correct or successful one.

The difference is also:

 

our leadership core seems pissed of but motivated and want to organize guys in town for some captain skates before the season.

 

Dylan Larkin spent time crying in front of the cameras a month ago because he knows his team is going to be cheeks for the foreseeable future. 

[Kevin Biestra]

19 hours ago, IBatch said:

Demko isn't easily top ten, just has a lot of promise.   Jury is still out on that.  Watched so many goalies come in and actually do a lot more over the same time period and fade to give him that handle yet.   Biestra was correct on another thread to point that out no matter how much that may hurt or rub folks the wrong way.   Ranford was unreal in 1990, but didn't stay on top for long,    Murray recently and Binnington.  Sure both PIT and St. Louis fans thought they got a good one.   Craig Anderson is actually about the best I think we can hope for.    Brian Elliot.   Boucher - five consecutive shutouts wasn't good enough to make the PHI goaltending circus since Hextall was around.   

 

Gibson in ANA was wasted.   Now he's pretty much done.   Jones in SJ.    Heck back in the WCE era, Cloutier had 7 shutouts one year ... still his ballon got popped every playoffs.   Demko is a great guy and hope the best for him.   But one good season doesn't mean much in this league.    Goalies are the most fickle players in the league.  He's got time on his side ... but injuries are worrisome.     At this point, he's our number one goalie, needs a couple solid seasons under his belt before labelling anything. 

 

Agree Yzerman knows he's got to draft some impact players.  Larkin and Seider are not enough.    We do have a legit top five center and top 5-8th defenseman.   And some good support players too, Miller is legit right now too.   

 

Yeah I can name a lot of goalies who achieved as much as or more than Demko has in a short period and probably nobody around here but maybe you and me and a few others know their names.  Tim Cheveldae, Mario Lessard, Murray Bannerman, Michel Dion, Denis Herron, Bob Froese, Daren Puppa...  In most cases they faded back away before five really good years ever happened.  In some cases like Bob Sauve or Reggie Lemelin or Rick Wamsley or Brian Hayward or Dan Bouchard it was a long career but who knows their names now and nobody calls them superstars of the past, and they all did more and for longer than Demko has so far.  Brian Hayward was top seven in Vezina voting four times and won three Jennings Trophies.  Thirty years later...Brian who?

 

Or take our own Gary Smith.  Twice led goalies in the NHL with more than 70 games, won a Jennings (back when it was the Vezina), was 3rd in AS voting when that was really the Vezina Trophy, 6th in Hart Trophy voting and closed it all out as the starting goalie for the final AVCO Cup winning team in the WHA.  And he doesn't even get respect on these boards...for the team where he got those All Star and Hart Trophy votes.  Certainly isn't called a superstar anyway.

 

A guy like Steve Penney basically entered the picture exactly like Demko did in the playoffs (led the playoffs in GAA and shutouts with virtually no experience) and then followed that up the next year with 7th place for the Vezina.  He played in the NHL for three more years...18, 8 and 7 games.

 

I have a pretty good feeling that Demko will pan out pretty well...but that's more of a gut thing than based on accomplishments.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah I can name a lot of goalies who achieved as much as or more than Demko has in a short period and probably nobody around here but maybe you and me and a few others know their names.  Tim Cheveldae, Mario Lessard, Murray Bannerman, Michel Dion, Denis Herron, Bob Froese, Daren Puppa...  In most cases they faded back away before five really good years ever happened.  In some cases like Bob Sauve or Reggie Lemelin or Rick Wamsley or Brian Hayward or Dan Bouchard it was a long career but who knows their names now and nobody calls them superstars of the past, and they all did more and for longer than Demko has so far.  Brian Hayward was top seven in Vezina voting four times and won three Jennings Trophies.  Thirty years later...Brian who?

 

Or take our own Gary Smith.  Twice led goalies in the NHL with more than 70 games, won a Jennings (back when it was the Vezina), was 3rd in AS voting when that was really the Vezina Trophy, 6th in Hart Trophy voting and closed it all out as the starting goalie for the final AVCO Cup winning team in the WHA.  And he doesn't even get respect on these boards...for the team where he got those All Star and Hart Trophy votes.  Certainly isn't called a superstar anyway.

 

A guy like Steve Penney basically entered the picture exactly like Demko did in the playoffs (led the playoffs in GAA and shutouts with vritually no experience) and then followed that up the next year with 7th place for the Vezina.  He played in the NHL for three more years...18, 8 and 7 games.

 

I have a pretty good feeling that Demko will pan out pretty well...but that's more of a gut thing than based on accomplishments.

 

 

You bet.  Bouchard was actually a great goalie - had two careers, first one he was a total spaz, second one after he discovered the Lord and settled down (his own words).   Also inspired some of the guys that inspired generations of goalies, Patrick Roy (Bouchard was his favourite) and Grant Furh.   Luongo's extra splash making a save, his own words - growing up idolizing Grant Furh and his awesome glove.   Roy of course, popularized the butterfly and literally changed how the game was played.   Who did Roy get that from?  Tape on Glen Hall - the first guy who used that technique, and considered one of the best the games ever had, but never gets recognized for using it, Roy does. 

 

Demko is garden variety compared to a lot of these guys.   Glad you mentioned Cheveldae and earlier Essensa.   Back up Bob was considered a very good goalie in his early WNP days ...   I'd be stoked if he ends up with a career as good as Anderson's.   Over 300 wins is still a great achievement, even with the OT wins and shoot-out wins added.    So far we've had one HHOF goalie who's played for us ... Felix Potvin, Sean Burke were also considered pretty darn good at times too and that goalie circus we had between McLean and Luongo was sure something ... Even Snow and Skudra had their moments. 

 

Also have a good feeling Demko will work out.   Only thing that concerns me, is his durability.   Taller goalies tend to get injured more often.  Bishop also has a couple great seasons.   Rinne set the bar for guys 6'4 and taller.    Also had his share of time off.   Markstrom too. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by IBatch

[Timråfan]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Demko isn't easily top ten, just has a lot of promise.   Jury is still out on that.  Watched so many goalies come in and actually do a lot more over the same time period and fade to give him that handle yet.   Biestra was correct on another thread to point that out no matter how much that may hurt or rub folks the wrong way.   Ranford was unreal in 1990, but didn't stay on top for long,    Murray recently and Binnington.  Sure both PIT and St. Louis fans thought they got a good one.   Craig Anderson is actually about the best I think we can hope for.    Brian Elliot.   Boucher - five consecutive shutouts wasn't good enough to make the PHI goaltending circus since Hextall was around.   

 

Gibson in ANA was wasted.   Now he's pretty much done.   Jones in SJ.    Heck back in the WCE era, Cloutier had 7 shutouts one year ... still his ballon got popped every playoffs.   Demko is a great guy and hope the best for him.   But one good season doesn't mean much in this league.    Goalies are the most fickle players in the league.  He's got time on his side ... but injuries are worrisome.     At this point, he's our number one goalie, needs a couple solid seasons under his belt before labelling anything. 

 

One of the reason I want Silovs and Demko playing almost 50% each is due to injuries at the high level they play. Maybe put in Martin a few games also.

They flex their bodies a lot and when they make those almost impossible save the muscles/ligaments get torn a bit. 
Then they have to play a back to back game and injuries might happen.

So all the small injuries over time is the reason why goalies fade away.