[PDF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Edmonton Oilers (P2) | Golden Knights win series 4-2

[Kevin Biestra]

2 hours ago, ktcy2 said:

Let’s face it. The nhl playoffs is a complete crapshoot. It isn’t about skill anymore. It’s all about the grind and who is tougher. Refs don’t call the penalties and oilers lose as simple as that. I am a hockey fans for over 20 years and I don’t want to hear all that Stanley cup is the hardest trophy to win bullshit. VGK and the Kraken may be playing each other in the western finals. Let that sink it for a moment. Two of the newest expansion teams playing each other. The so called hardest trophy to in in all sports might be won by expansion teams in the last 7/8 years. Which superstar is left now? Eichel? Robertson? … I mean let’s not pretend the playoffs is about the art of hockey. It’s about which team can grind the most and the fastest. Skilled players don’t mean jack in the playoffs and this is why I lose interests after the first round. You almost know what is gonna happen. Big fast grinding team wins every freaking year. You don’t need your superstars. Just be big and fast and hard working. That’s all. 

 

Two expansion teams in the final within a few years of arriving in the league is kind of gross but that's more a testament to the expansion conditions for Vegas and Seattle, probably the most favorable terms for expansion teams in the history of sports.  The rest of us from the 1970 expansion through to the 90s expansions had to suffer first or else the other few teams had to build their roster in the WHA before arriving.

[Kevin Biestra]

Oh Oilers...  This one is largely on Skinner I have to say unfortunately.  Oilers were primed to score their way out of anything these playoffs but no team can outgun a Dan Cloutier situation.  Oilers D didn't help matters any but 4 goals allowed on 17 shots in an elimination game.  Yikes...

 

People are laughing at the Oilers but they outshot the Knights something like 40-18.  The Vegas goalie just did them the way Demko did Vegas for us that year.  I said before that these Oilers remind me of something in between the 1981 / 1982 Oilers in the playoffs and the 1983 Oilers.  I think next year you might see the 1983 version.  They've learned some playoff lessons the same way the Canucks did in 1991 through 1993...and 2007 through 2010.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[iinatcc]

Seattle vs. Vegas conference finals here we come 

[Crimson-JH]

6 hours ago, theo5789 said:

 

 

If you watch the full video of the handshakes line, he does this on all of the VGK players, not just Pietrangelo… same goes with McDavid too…

 

man, those guys seriously are two peas in a pod… 

 

it was the most unfriendly handshakes ever for the Oilers

 

https://youtu.be/FLURubvfzXo

Edited May 15, 2023 by Crimson-JH

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, CanuckRookieFan said:

Saw some dude saying Florida, Nevada, Texas, Washington don't have income tax so that's why the teams from there always get into playoffs. Like wtf lol?

 

Awful take, what does taxes have to do with anything? No one is thinking about that I may be new to hockey and a fan but you are reaching really deep to have to convince me or any fan taxes is actually something to hang your hat on when choosing champions. Hint, ITS NOT.

TB has no state tax, and has a laundry list of stars who would ask for more if they were playing in Toronto, or SJ.   Stamkos is a case study on this.   What it reportedly would take for him to go to SJ or TO, is exactly what he took in net pay over 8 years instead of 7, as much as 13 million.   His pay is 9.5ish.  But he didn't leave a dollar on the table either.  

 

There is some truth to this.  It's a cap world.  And low state tax teams tend to get better deals, in exchange for a NMC/NTC.       COL won a cup last year, 41% tax instead of 53%...TB 3 finals 36.4 tax.   Seattle and Vegas 36.4% tax.   Dallas 36.4% tax.    SJ and  MTL  only relatively high tax state and max provincial tax team that's been to the final the last little while.  MTL is the only one that ever has actually, since the cap came in.      118 million over the cap Kucherov made T-Shirts of this after winning their cup (once the playoffs start, there is no cap, anyone on LTIR can return when they are ready).    When the cap first came in it took some time for things to settle down.   ANA won a cup.   When Vancouver went to the final their tax rate was an ok 47%(same as Alberta's teams are), now it's 53%.  That's a 6% difference.   And it takes no time to get to the max rate really.   Even 750k is 14% different then six US cities.  Miller lost 550k per season since traded to Vancouver, but i'm sure he's not complaining, no way he'd get a deal like he's got now if Green didn't give him a chance on the first line.    And of course he's mentioned how us giving him that chance was a big reason why he signed with us and took less then he'd likely get on the market.   It's going to take an entire teams commitment, and that leadership he showed for sure meant something to me as a fan.   But Horvat sure didn't get the memo.  Hope EP does.   Every deal JB made ... folks were thinking it was a tad too much.  Not sure Allvin is going to find it much easier, and JR has already said since coming from PIT he misjudged this market, to me part of that inference is that what it takes to sign guys here is different then what he's used too - 43% tax lol.   That's 10%.   You can absolutely bet that it's what these guys are considering.   

  

Those are Seattle, Vegas, Florida, TB and Dallas.   How many conference  finals have they been too?   16.4% is a lot of extra room to play with when negotiating deals.   AP was offered the Same deal in St. Louis ... but he's making 8% more pay.    It all adds up, one million here, 500k there, in Stamkos's case 3.5.     Their rosters have been stacked for years.   

 

    Athletes are also different now, playing in Canada isn't as desirable as it used to be, high taxes and media (fish bowl life) according to Friedman, are the reasons when they can choose, they often leave.    It makes zero mathematical sense, that no Canadian city has won a cup since MTL did, right around when salary disclosure first came out.    Starts to make some sense when you consider they haven't had it easy.   Paying in US funds cost us both WNP and Quebec, right off the hop, and for awhile our beloved Canucks were also at high risk, same with the Oilers.  

 

 

Here is a calculator.   It includes all the taxes, including home and away games for no state tax teams.   This is Millers contract.   Take a gander: 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Two expansion teams in the final within a few years of arriving in the league is kind of gross but that's more a testament to the expansion conditions for Vegas and Seattle, probably the most favorable terms for expansion teams in the history of sports.  The rest of us from the 1970 expansion through to the 90s expansions had to suffer first or else the other few teams had to build their roster in the WHA before arriving.

You bet.   And it got a lot harder as the league grew past the mid 20's.   CLB ... how many times have they made the playoffs, and how long did it take them to get there?  A decade plus.   They've been around for a couple decades now and have won exactly one round.   Against TB.    Have been dead set against expansion since the dead puck era and the round of expansion in the 90's that forced teams into the trap and just finding the biggest guys to hold things up.    Was nice to add Ottawa though, we lost WNP and the Nordiques.   

 

It led to one of the worst eras of hockey i've ever watched (the 2000's), there simply wasn't enough talent to replace the guys from the 80's and early 90's to keep it going.   But they kept expanding anyways.    

 

It's finally caught up which is encouraging.     And get that the Columbus round was goofy as heck.   So they needed to make a change.  But it appears they went a little too far.   Teams should have to put their lumps in.  Not like CLB had too either.    No team should have to suffer through a decade without a playoff appearance either.    Buffalo.  CAR 9 years.   League needs to bring back the play-ins.   2/3 of the teams used to make the show for a long time, and it had so many great storylines.    SJ defeating the mighty Wings in the early 90's.   Us going to the final for the first time.    Half isn't enough, especially within the cap.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by IBatch

[Wanless]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Two expansion teams in the final within a few years of arriving in the league is kind of gross but that's more a testament to the expansion conditions for Vegas and Seattle, probably the most favorable terms for expansion teams in the history of sports.  The rest of us from the 1970 expansion through to the 90s expansions had to suffer first or else the other few teams had to build their roster in the WHA before arriving.

It also kinda shows that depth is more important than star power

 

both seattle and vegas have great depth

[Ghostsof1915]

What's interesting is Toronto and Edmonton have already gone "all in". And they have no cap space.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Oh Oilers...  This one is largely on Skinner I have to say unfortunately.  Oilers were primed to score their way out of anything these playoffs but no team can outgun a Dan Cloutier situation.  Oilers D didn't help matters any but 4 goals allowed on 17 shots in an elimination game.  Yikes...

 

People are laughing at the Oilers but they outshot the Knights something like 40-18.  The Vegas goalie just did them the way Demko did Vegas for us that year.  I said before that these Oilers remind me of something in between the 1981 / 1982 Oilers in the playoffs and the 1983 Oilers.  I think next year you might see the 1983 version.  They've learned some playoff lessons the same way the Canucks did in 1991 through 1993...and 2007 through 2010.

Yes this exactly.  It's also on the coach.  Kept going back to the same well, even though it wasn't working .. 875ish sp is exactly around where Cloutiers career playoff game total was, owns a league record, for the worst save percentage of any goalie who played 25 or more games in the playoffs.    Not a record you'd want for your goalie.  

 

Like that you brought that up.   They do have some similarities.   They've definitely "learned how to lose".   And don't mind that the coach deflected saying it's a team win, and a team loss.   But for sure they lost due to poor goaltending.    They've got another crack at it next season.   They'd be smart to find a veteran back-up that has a flair for the dramatic when it really matters.    Tough to win a cup with average goaltending, impossible to win a cup with below average or poor goaltending.  

 

Only part of this series that is fun for the future, is Vegas and EDM have started a rivalry, that could go on for awhile.   Good references.   Back then EDM had to go through MTL,  Robinson was smashing guys left and right, and Messier cocked his stick like he was going to smash it over his head.   It's considered the origin story of his coming out party.   They didn't really know what they had in Messier until that moment.   

 

Draisaitl also had his coming out party.   Liked that he didn't shake APs hand lol, i'm sure his wrist is pretty darn sore still.  If the Canucks don't make the playoffs, at least we have this storyline to enjoy next season.    Just hope Dallas can beat Seattle.    And Dallas can beat Vegas. 

[johngould21]

5 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Two expansion teams in the final within a few years of arriving in the league is kind of gross but that's more a testament to the expansion conditions for Vegas and Seattle, probably the most favorable terms for expansion teams in the history of sports.  The rest of us from the 1970 expansion through to the 90s expansions had to suffer first or else the other few teams had to build their roster in the WHA before arriving.

I, among others was trashing Ron Francis and his choices during the expansion draft. He turned them into draft picks through trades and did it the right way. Vegas did the same. Saying that, compare the players available to what the Canucks got in 1970 and it's not even close. The teams that were allowing Seattle and Vegas to pounce were doing so because of cap issues, plain and simple.

How many picks does Seattle have this year? They're still reaping the benefits of that expansion draft, plus didn't they get a plum pick in the amateur draft as well?

[johngould21]

7 hours ago, ktcy2 said:

Let’s face it. The nhl playoffs is a complete crapshoot. It isn’t about skill anymore. It’s all about the grind and who is tougher. Refs don’t call the penalties and oilers lose as simple as that. I am a hockey fans for over 20 years and I don’t want to hear all that Stanley cup is the hardest trophy to win bullshit. VGK and the Kraken may be playing each other in the western finals. Let that sink it for a moment. Two of the newest expansion teams playing each other. The so called hardest trophy to in in all sports might be won by expansion teams in the last 7/8 years. Which superstar is left now? Eichel? Robertson? … I mean let’s not pretend the playoffs is about the art of hockey. It’s about which team can grind the most and the fastest. Skilled players don’t mean jack in the playoffs and this is why I lose interests after the first round. You almost know what is gonna happen. Big fast grinding team wins every freaking year. You don’t need your superstars. Just be big and fast and hard working. That’s all. 

153 points mean nothing. This is the most difficult trophy in all of sports to win. All you need is a spot in the playoffs and anything could happen. It's a team game, and teams that are built for the grind, usually win. This shows you how teams can shut superstars down in the playoffs, and how teams are built. Two teams with 4-6 players earning most of the salary cap, that have AHL goalies and suspect defense shouldn't win either. That's you Oilers and Leafs.

I was at the last Leaf game in Vancouver, a Canuck team that didn't make the playoffs beat them in all aspects of the game. Right now, I'd take EP over Matthews, or Marner, or Tavares any day.

[Gnarcore]

Must suck for Oilers fans. Looked so promising then to lose AND wake up knowing you live in Edmonton....

[flat land fish]

4 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

153 points mean nothing. This is the most difficult trophy in all of sports to win. All you need is a spot in the playoffs and anything could happen. It's a team game, and teams that are built for the grind, usually win. This shows you how teams can shut superstars down in the playoffs, and how teams are built. Two teams with 4-6 players earning most of the salary cap, that have AHL goalies and suspect defense shouldn't win either. That's you Oilers and Leafs.

I was at the last Leaf game in Vancouver, a Canuck team that didn't make the playoffs beat them in all aspects of the game. Right now, I'd take EP over Matthews, or Marner, or Tavares any day.

Interesting both Leafs and Oilers were let down by goaltending.  It’s like having a Lamborghini and you ran out of money for headlights so you can only drive in the daytime.

[Gnarcore]

7 hours ago, CanuckRookieFan said:

Saw some dude saying Florida, Nevada, Texas, Washington don't have income tax so that's why the teams from there always get into playoffs. Like wtf lol?

 

Awful take, what does taxes have to do with anything? No one is thinking about that I may be new to hockey and a fan but you are reaching really deep to have to convince me or any fan taxes is actually something to hang your hat on when choosing champions. Hint, ITS NOT.

Because not paying taxes is a huge draw for millionaires. It does matter honestly. 

[johngould21]

35 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

Because not paying taxes is a huge draw for millionaires. It does matter honestly. 

This only applies to FA's. If a player is traded to Vancouver, he plays in Vancouver regardless. If a Free Agent choses to go to a market where they play less income tax, that's a whole different ballgame. Draft picks go where they're drafted, unless your name is Lindros. None of these two teams in the quarter finals, Leafs or Oilers, were built properly.

[Fakename70]

Could possibly be an interesting summer in Edmonton with Gallant, Laviolette and Sutter available. Seems Torts was right when he gave his opinion as a studio analyst a couple years ago on McDavid and the Oilers. Maybe they should’ve hired him when they had the chance. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

What's interesting is Toronto and Edmonton have already gone "all in". And they have no cap space.

Edmonton is a bit of a long-term all in.  They've already locked up their biggest pieces, and they have some tough decisions to make, but nothing like Toronto.  If Edmonton can unload Yamamoto and Foegele, they can re-sign Bouchard.  After that, they can decide on what do with their secondary pieces (Kostin, McLeod, Ryan, Janmark).  Toronto has to re-sign Bunting and Samsonov, so they're likely going to lose Ryan O'Reilly, which really hurts.  Probably loses Kerfoot too.

[Mando27]

Pretty surprised at this outcome tbh, I thought that Oilers had an easy route to the finals this year. Goaltending was their downfall this series.

[Elias Pettersson]

10 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

Elimination game:

 

Draisaitl  - 4

 

Eichel    + 4

 

 

 

Eichel had a great game, especially defensively. He outplayed both McDavid and Draisaitl. 
 

Edmonton will never win a cup playing pond hockey. And with AHL goaltending and an AHL defence.  Nurse at $9.25 million for another 7 years is probably the worst contract in the NHL. Maybe only slightly better than Huberdeau. 

[ktcy2]

2 hours ago, johngould21 said:

153 points mean nothing. This is the most difficult trophy in all of sports to win. All you need is a spot in the playoffs and anything could happen. It's a team game, and teams that are built for the grind, usually win. This shows you how teams can shut superstars down in the playoffs, and how teams are built. Two teams with 4-6 players earning most of the salary cap, that have AHL goalies and suspect defense shouldn't win either. That's you Oilers and Leafs.

I was at the last Leaf game in Vancouver, a Canuck team that didn't make the playoffs beat them in all aspects of the game. Right now, I'd take EP over Matthews, or Marner, or Tavares any day.

Then how are you supposed to build a team then. I don’t see anyone on the knights roster that jumps out and scream “I am only built for the playoffs”… McDavid is a monster in the regular season and means nothing in the playoffs. Does it have to do with how the game is called? If 50% of the penalties go uncalled then what is the point of rules? I truly believe that the “anything can happen” rhetoric is because the game is called different in the playoffs from the regular season. This shouldn’t be the case. The same standard should apply both in the regular season and the playoffs to maintain consistency.