[PDF] Vegas Golden Knights (P1) vs. Edmonton Oilers (P2) | Golden Knights win series 4-2

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, Ballisticsports. said:

Elias, I don't buy it is a strategy to draw penalties, i think he just uses his speed and his quick thinking to his advantage and he wants to get by to score not draw a penalty (that is the end result and why his peers say he is the best)

How old was Ovi before he won his 1st cup 33?

For some to say he couldn't hold Crosby's jockstrap is far fetched

Ovi will go down as one of the greatest players and McD still has 7 yrs to win his 1st cup like Ovi along with Drai

Putting them down when they got their teams into the playoffs, would be like putting EP and JT down for not even getting us there

I get the dislike of the Oilers, but within reason 

I will stand by that statement until proven otherwise.  What exactly has McDavid achieved in the NHL besides personal accomplishments?  

 

Hockey is a team sport.  Until McDavid can prove he is a team first player and lead his team to victory, he will never be better than Crosby.  I don't care how many points he scores using his super sonic power play.  

 

Just wait until Petey gets into the playoffs.  You will see the difference.  Next year will be the year.  Petey's game is built for the playoffs...

[BabychStache]

I believe this isn't a matter of Oilers losing, but more of a Vegas winning situation. 

 

Vegas played hard, had several players level up their game and pull through when needed. 

 

Oilers are an incredible team, they just ran into a powerhouse that came together perfectly. Edmonton is not like Toronto, the team is well built. They just need a couple of bounces and a few guys to step up at key moments.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

And they struggled to score 5v5/ES

They had 10 goals at ES/5v5

9 goals on the PP

 

VGK had 20 goals 5v5/ES 

4 goals on the PP

 

Edmonton lost because they got shut down.

McWhiner had 3 points 5v5 in that series.

Dont blame the goalies for not scoring for McWhiner 5v5

 

Thanks for bringing the receipts.  Edmonton can't buy a goal 5 on 5 but somehow it's the goalie's fault for them choking.  Edmonton could have Patrick Roy in net and they still won't win a Stanley Cup until McDraisaitl learn how to score a goal with the same amount of players on the ice for both teams.  Imagine thinking you have a shot at a cup by trying to outscore the opposition while having one more player on the ice than the other team.  I mean, does Edmonton think the NHL are going to change the rules and allow them to play the entire game with an extra man on the ice?   

[AnthonyG]

21 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Well, we can agree to disagree I suppose, but from what I saw, Hill vastly outperformed Skinner last night.

Okay but EDM had 4 low danger goals for and only 1 against.

A lot of their chances were considered low danger chances.

They had 8 more high danger chances for than VGK

EDM HDCF 54

VGK HDCF 46

EDM LDCF 118

VGK LDCF 96

 

Yes VGK had more high danger goals which would back your argument that Hill made bigger saves. But he also had 4x more low danger goals. So to me that kind of washes out any big saves he made.

 

Last nights game

 

EDM

HDCF 15

HDSF 8

 

VGK

HDCF 7

HDSF 7

 

EDM didnt block 1 single high danger shot/attempt. All 7 chances registered a shot.

EDM

LDCF 33

LDSF 15

 

VGK

LDCF 17

LDSF 6

 

The large majority of EDM’s shots were low danger.

VGK despite getting outshot heavily, managed to have more high danger shots than low danger. They also plugged up the middle and helped make Hill’s job easier.

Skinner allowed 3 high danger goals at 5v5

VGK allowed 1 low danger goal.

Say what you want, but they didnt help Skinner at all.

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Okay but EDM had 4 low danger goals for and only 1 against.

A lot of their chances were considered low danger chances.

They had 8 more high danger chances for than VGK

EDM HDCF 54

VGK HDCF 46

EDM LDCF 118

VGK LDCF 96

 

Yes VGK had more high danger goals which would back your argument that Hill made bigger saves. But he also had 4x more low danger goals. So to me that kind of washes out any big saves he made.

 

Last nights game

 

EDM

HDCF 15

HDSF 8

 

VGK

HDCF 7

HDSF 7

 

EDM didnt block 1 single high danger shot/attempt. All 7 chances registered a shot.

EDM

LDCF 33

LDSF 15

 

VGK

LDCF 17

LDSF 6

 

The large majority of EDM’s shots were low danger.

VGK despite getting outshot heavily, managed to have more high danger shots than low danger. They also plugged up the middle and helped make Hill’s job easier.

Skinner allowed 3 high danger goals at 5v5

VGK allowed 1 low danger goal.

Say what you want, but they didnt help Skinner at all.

 

 

 

Skinner can only do so much when the players in front of him are playing pond hockey and the forwards refuse to backcheck.  As you correctly stated, Edmonton allows alot more high danger chances than the other teams.  I would bet alot of money that if you switched the goalies last night the result would have been the same...

[RUPERTKBD]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Okay but EDM had 4 low danger goals for and only 1 against.

A lot of their chances were considered low danger chances.

They had 8 more high danger chances for than VGK

EDM HDCF 54

VGK HDCF 46

EDM LDCF 118

VGK LDCF 96

 

Yes VGK had more high danger goals which would back your argument that Hill made bigger saves. But he also had 4x more low danger goals. So to me that kind of washes out any big saves he made.

 

Last nights game

 

EDM

HDCF 15

HDSF 8

 

VGK

HDCF 7

HDSF 7

 

EDM didnt block 1 single high danger shot/attempt. All 7 chances registered a shot.

EDM

LDCF 33

LDSF 15

 

VGK

LDCF 17

LDSF 6

 

The large majority of EDM’s shots were low danger.

VGK despite getting outshot heavily, managed to have more high danger shots than low danger. They also plugged up the middle and helped make Hill’s job easier.

Skinner allowed 3 high danger goals at 5v5

VGK allowed 1 low danger goal.

Say what you want, but they didnt help Skinner at all.

So, I'm not sure who gets to decide what is "high danger" and what is "low danger", but if you're saying that Skinner outplayed Hill last night, all I can say is that's not how I saw it....

[rekker]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Thanks for bringing the receipts.  Edmonton can't buy a goal 5 on 5 but somehow it's the goalie's fault for them choking.  Edmonton could have Patrick Roy in net and they still won't win a Stanley Cup until McDraisaitl learn how to score a goal with the same amount of players on the ice for both teams.  Imagine thinking you have a shot at a cup by trying to outscore the opposition while having one more player on the ice than the other team.  I mean, does Edmonton think the NHL are going to change the rules and allow them to play the entire game with an extra man on the ice?   

Yip. Was nice to see the missed high stick on Ekholm, or what probably happened, the refs though it was another dive and looked the other way. The diving and embellishment from the Oilers this season was shameful and embarrassing to the sport. It was part of their game plan to gain that man advantage any way possible. 

[Darius]

24 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes, I am.  Isn't that the point?  So, McDavid has zero fault for his team choking 2 years in a row?  It's the rest of the team's fault?  Doesn't McDavid play like 25 minutes a night?

 

If your team has the most lethal powerplay in hockey history, it makes sense to orient your game towards that.  You shouldn't fault a player or a team for playing to its strengths.

 

This is what you said in regards to the Oilers and McDavid.  You are making the point that McDavid is using the PP to try and win hockey games.  We know that strategy doesn't work in the playoffs and last night was a perfect example of why.  As you pointed out top playoff teams don't take alot of penalties, so why are the Oilers still trying to use that strategy?  Are they not capable of scoring 5 on 5 enough to win a hockey game?  Is McDavid not capable of changing his game in the playoffs?  If not, then is that not his fault?

 

McDavid had 20 points in the playoffs, 12 of them on the PP.  In comparison, Eichel had 14 points in the playoffs, but only 2 points on the PP.  So, at even strength Eichel is a better player.  Why can't McDavid outscore Eichel at 5 on 5?  You say it is not his fault, it is the team's fault.  This is confusing to me.  McDavid plays 25 minutes a night but can't outscore Jack Eichel 5 on 5.  And this is supposedly not McDavid's fault, it is the teams fault.  That makes no sense.

 

What makes total sense is that 5 on 5 McDavid isn't actually the best player in the league.  He can't even outscore Jack Eichel when it counts the most.  Sorry, but McDavid is a product of his environment.  Put him on a team that doesn't get alot of PP's and he's not even a 100-point player.  He couldn't hold Crosby's jockstrap.  

 

Won't even get into the Petey comparisons.  Petey is like a 100+ point player on a non-playoff team who could win the Selke trophy.  That type of player is exactly what you need in the playoffs to win a Stanley Cup...

This is why im not buying the "McDavid is better than Gretzky" arguments i see (admittedly mostly from younger fans).  Gretzky could play 4 d chess out there, 5 v 5 he was amazing.  

 

When I see McDavid im thinking "a better version of Bure and Selanne".  Would love to have seen what the latter 2 would do with no two line off side, no clutch and grab, no opposing team goon trying to kill you.  Granted today the D men are more mobile and goaltending is better but Selanne got 76 goals as a rookie.   

 

McDavid is no Gretzky, hell he might not even be the best overall player on his own team.  Drai looks scarier in the playoffs.

[King Heffy]

Just now, rekker said:

Yip. Was nice to see the missed high stick on Ekholm, or what probably happened, the refs though it was another dive and looked the other way. The diving and embellishment from the Oilers this season was shameful and embarrassing to the sport. It was part of their game plan to gain that man advantage any way possible. 

The NHL really needs to crack down.  5 minutes and a game for diving, with repeat offenders getting suspended would be the right idea.  The Oilers and their outright refusal to play like men is a disgrace to the sport, but it will continue until the league stops rewarding these gutless floppers. 

[McBackup]

7 hours ago, Crimson-JH said:

If you watch the full video of the handshakes line, he does this on all of the VGK players, not just Pietrangelo… same goes with McDavid too…

 

man, those guys seriously are two peas in a pod… 

 

it was the most unfriendly handshakes ever for the Oilers

 

https://youtu.be/FLURubvfzXo

Ehh. Draisaitl was pissy, unsurprising. I don't think so for McDavid though. He grasped their hand, made eye contact and said "good series" or whatever to everyone. It was perfectly cordial. He met whatever standards are there for the handshake line and I wouldn't expect any player to go above and beyond if they just got eliminated either. 

[AnthonyG]

4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

So, I'm not sure who gets to decide what is "high danger" and what is "low danger", but if you're saying that Skinner outplayed Hill last night, all I can say is that's not how I saw it....

No im not saying that at all. His team allowed 7 high danger chances and all 7 chances registered a shot.

VGK blocked half of the high danger chances they allowed.

All 3 goals that were scored 5v5 were high danger goals on Skinner, so none of them were weak goals. Hill DID allow 1 weak goal which was the McDavid goal.

Not just that but how many 2 on 1s did EDM allow last night that luckily for them wound up being a bad pass? There were quite a few odd man opportunities for Vegas last night

 

Skinners “team” didnt do anything to help and with only 1 PP they were clueless how else to score

[Ballisticsports.]

13 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The NHL really needs to crack down.  5 minutes and a game for diving, with repeat offenders getting suspended would be the right idea.  The Oilers and their outright refusal to play like men is a disgrace to the sport, but it will continue until the league stops rewarding these gutless floppers. 

How do you determine all falls as dives?

 

Try walking slow and have someone give you a lil push, it is very easy to recover

Now run as fast as you can and have that same push, not so easy at that speed to stay upright

 

I agree we don't want the NHL to become the European Football (soccer)

That is so pathetic to watch a guy acting like a bear just mauled him and then get up and run full tilt and yet they don't have a player sit for embellishment and poor sportsmanship

Edited May 15, 2023 by Ballisticsports.

[iceman64]

38 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Not really...

It shouldn't, especially if it's from Vancouver media or hacks like Canucks army blah blah blah.. worse than useless! 

 Well good ole summer and the daily search of "Canucks news" 

I sometimes read the b.s. in the media when I'm bored but it ends up good for a laugh, they're still screaming for forwards, some have switched to D after AL mentioned it but omfg talk about cluelessness!

 Half the folks in the CDC could write better than those schmucks! 

[RUPERTKBD]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

No im not saying that at all. His team allowed 7 high danger chances and all 7 chances registered a shot.

VGK blocked half of the high danger chances they allowed.

All 3 goals that were scored 5v5 were high danger goals on Skinner, so none of them were weak goals. Hill DID allow 1 weak goal which was the McDavid goal.

Not just that but how many 2 on 1s did EDM allow last night that luckily for them wound up being a bad pass? There were quite a few odd man opportunities for Vegas last night

 

Skinners “team” didnt do anything to help and with only 1 PP they were clueless how else to score

Well, I think we're just going back and forth here, so I'll make two points and call it a discussion:

 

1 - I think Edmonton is still playing if they get decent goaltending.

2 - I think a lot of people here are influenced by their dislike of the team.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

22 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes, I am.  Isn't that the point?  So, McDavid has zero fault for his team choking 2 years in a row?  It's the rest of the team's fault?  Doesn't McDavid play like 25 minutes a night?

 

If your team has the most lethal powerplay in hockey history, it makes sense to orient your game towards that.  You shouldn't fault a player or a team for playing to its strengths.

 

This is what you said in regards to the Oilers and McDavid.  You are making the point that McDavid is using the PP to try and win hockey games.  We know that strategy doesn't work in the playoffs and last night was a perfect example of why.  As you pointed out top playoff teams don't take alot of penalties, so why are the Oilers still trying to use that strategy?  Are they not capable of scoring 5 on 5 enough to win a hockey game?  Is McDavid not capable of changing his game in the playoffs?  If not, then is that not his fault?

 

McDavid had 20 points in the playoffs, 12 of them on the PP.  In comparison, Eichel had 14 points in the playoffs, but only 2 points on the PP.  So, at even strength Eichel is a better player.  Why can't McDavid outscore Eichel at 5 on 5?  You say it is not his fault, it is the team's fault.  This is confusing to me.  McDavid plays 25 minutes a night but can't outscore Jack Eichel 5 on 5.  And this is supposedly not McDavid's fault, it is the teams fault.  That makes no sense.

 

What makes total sense is that 5 on 5 McDavid isn't actually the best player in the league.  He can't even outscore Jack Eichel when it counts the most.  Sorry, but McDavid is a product of his environment.  Put him on a team that doesn't get alot of PP's and he's not even a 100-point player.  He couldn't hold Crosby's jockstrap.  

 

Won't even get into the Petey comparisons.  Petey is like a 100+ point player on a non-playoff team who could win the Selke trophy.  That type of player is exactly what you need in the playoffs to win a Stanley Cup...

And Erik Karlsson is a 100 point player on a non-playoff team who could win the Norris trophy.  I'm not sure that suddenly qualifies him to be playoff material.

 

It's a team game, more than any other in sports.  McDavid vs Eichel is a sensationalist narrative.  The Oilers as a team got outscored, not just any individual.  When I watch hockey I see team systems going against each other until one breaks down.  Sometimes neither side crumbles and it's just a lucky bounce that leads to a win.  Getting on the powerplay isn't a McDavid strategy - it's a Woodcroft strategy.  Just like how Vegas' disciplined comeback this year shows how good of a coach Cassidy is.  Vegas didn't win because Eichel was better than McDavid.  They won because the whole team showed up while Edmonton's didn't.  In fact, the best player on Vegas was obviously Hill.

 

But if you really want to get to individual stats... McDavid got 20 points in 12 playoff games.  That's less than last year but still remarkable.  He did get to go on the powerplay against Vegas (as disciplined as they are) and he scored a lot.  Doesnt matter how the points came - he outscored Eichel by a lot too.  If I score two powerplay goals and you score one at even strength, who made the bigger impact on the game's outcome?

 

McDavid has also proven himself to be a pretty effective penalty killer by being a constant scoring threat even while shorthanded.  If he was forced to adopt a different playstyle by a new coach, McDavid could absolutely adjust his game.  But that is a coaching decision, not an individual one.

 

Again.  Put McDavid on any team and he will naturally draw penalties because of his explosive playstyle.  You're treating that like it's a flaw.  Pettersson is also excellent at drawing penalties because of how elusive he is.  Is that bad?  As for him being Selke level, I recall you posting a very biased article and treating it like gospel.  He'll get there eventually but this year's numbers did not earn him a nomination.  Those are hard facts.

[AnthonyG]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Well, I think we're just going back and forth here, so I'll make two points and call it a discussion:

 

1 - I think Edmonton is still playing if they get decent goaltending.

2 - I think a lot of people here are influenced by their dislike of the team.

But still, they failed to score 5v5. Even with decent goaltending, they struggled to score 5v5. If goaltending was such a concern, why were they not blocking more shots?

VGK blocked 28 shots

EDM blocked 14…..

 

That is the true difference in game 6. Vegas did whatever it took to get the win. Edmonton did not.

Edited May 15, 2023 by AnthonyG

[Elias Pettersson]

17 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

No im not saying that at all. His team allowed 7 high danger chances and all 7 chances registered a shot.

VGK blocked half of the high danger chances they allowed.

All 3 goals that were scored 5v5 were high danger goals on Skinner, so none of them were weak goals. Hill DID allow 1 weak goal which was the McDavid goal.

Not just that but how many 2 on 1s did EDM allow last night that luckily for them wound up being a bad pass? There were quite a few odd man opportunities for Vegas last night

 

Skinners “team” didnt do anything to help and with only 1 PP they were clueless how else to score

Vegas put on a clinic in the 3rd period.  I didn't see any high danger shots from the Oilers, except maybe one Bouch bomb that got through.  McDavid was so frustrated he literally whiffed on a shot with like 2 minutes left.  He literally took a shot and missed the puck.  I started laughing after that.  I'm like, is that all he has with 2 minutes left?  He couldn't penetrate the Vegas defence because they know his schtick.  He flies around trying to find an opening, but Vegas didn't give him one.  He was basically a perimeter player for the entire 3rd period and without a power play he couldn't even get going.  

 

Crosby would have handled that alot differently.  Same with Gretzky.  Crosby would have literally charged the net like he always does and got his nose dirty.  He would have scored a dirty goal from 3 feet out.  He does that all the time.  McDavid doesn't know where the crease is located.  Gretzky would have set up shop behind the net and waited until Vegas made a mistake and would have set up Kurri for the game winner.  

 

Great players know how to win.  They do whatever it takes.  Not sure McDavid has that in him.  I'd love for him to prove me wrong though.  But last night didn't help his cause.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[DownUndaCanuck]

Surprised to see Edmonton fade away in such a key game but Vegas plays hard, proper deep 4 line playoff hockey and it was just too much. No surprise that goaltending gives up the game - Skinner cracks under pressure with 4 goals against in what, 2 periods? I guess they'll just hope he can become the starter they need but that's one hole they've neglected for years and years. Not to say it was the only thing that cost them but they almost out-shot Vegas 2 to 1 and get creamed. On the flip-side, Draisaitl and Nurse are a combined -7 while Eichel and Pietrangelo are a +8 (although IMO they didn't look that great or different).

 

This is just the problem with top heavy teams - they look great in the regular season, they're great on the PP because of such high end skill, but the playoffs are a different game - your top forwards and lines are often checked to death by top defencemen and there's less room on the ice because everyone's playing much safer defensively. There's not as many risks or gambles so not as many openings or odd-man rushes against and certainly (should be) less penalties (which there finally were in this game, sealing Edmonton's fate really). You need your 3rd and 4th lines to win games. 

 

I think you have to give credit especially to Vegas, Marchessault just came alive - 3 goals tonight, 3 assists last night and he had a couple of goals previously too - 8 points in his last 4 games. I don't see Dallas or Seattle causing them too much of a problem but Carolina or Florida may well do.

[King Heffy]

6 minutes ago, Ballisticsports. said:

How do you determine all falls as dives?

 

Try walking slow and have someone give you a lil push, it is very easy to recover

Now run as fast as you can and have that same push, not so easy at that speed to stay upright

 

I agree we don't want the NHL to become the European Football (soccer)

That is so pathetic to watch a guy acting like a bear just mauled him and then get up and run full tilt and yet they don't have a player sit for embellishment and poor sportsmanship

There's already a penalty for diving, it's just not enough of a deterrent.  At the very minimum, the league needs to start only penalizing the dive when it's used. They're also issuing fines, so clearly they think they can figure it out.  The Oilers were painfully obviously going down far too easily, and have been for years.  Enough is enough; they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt and frankly the refs should be penalizing Mcdiver additionally for every tantrum he throws.

[bishopshodan]

Edm is top heavy like a 90's stripper... and no back end to speak of.