[Discussion] Draft and Off Season Talk

[iceman64]

10 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I think you're on the right track but something tells me our mgmt group will trade away that pick in an effort to package one of our many "deadbeat" players up with it because they are in serious Cap Trouble!

Well let's talk about our said deadbeats, as many other team you have a core and you build around it and properly for a change, is something that isn't going to happen over night and people and the media need to stop pushing for $$$ RFA's but even now more than ever, we're going to need quality ELC's and properly developed depth, without is a ticket punched to nowhere, which is Canucks hockey has been all about since day F'n one.. 

 I don't know about you but imo, this is getting way past ridiculous. 

If it doesn't stop, Lord Stanley isn't coming anytime soon and 40 years will easily turn in 50 then 60++++ 

 Are we there yet? This is way past old.. sarcastically laughs! 

 Like c'mon.. step one, STOP listening to the media like they always know what their talking about because oftentimes they have no clue. Just conjecture, not based in reality. 

 I'll prove it, I came to this conclusion after seeing all the media screaming for, especially in the last 4 I don't years, we should trade for this forward it that forward, it was in every online hacks and sports media out there. 

 Yet here we are, and I'm not the only by a mile screaming for D instead and what do we lack today?! 

 That a lot of us here on the CDC have known for years, with Salo, Elder, Tanev etc often injured and no one to step in to speak of so we'd go on losing streaks by other teams taking advantage knowing we had no one and capitalize on it. Sound familiar? Lol! How many years did we go through that? 

Omg lol but yet, yeah let's go after a 2nd need after D first... Like c'mon... 

This thinking about RFA's will somehow win it without depth is crazy! 

 With all that in mind, we need obviously to develop support players, we don't need top 6 forward futures, bottom 6 with top 6 ceilings who can step in seamlessly and D of course, it's not like we don't have enough fire power and yes depth there too is needed but first things first but the media would tell and has told you more forwards, more forwards, more forwards!!!  

Seriously??? And people buy it... Omfg! Lmao! 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, -DLC- said:

I don't agree but that's fine. You can be Makar's cheerleader and I'll be Petey's.

Agree to disagree but I’ll make one thing clear. 
 

I am no cheerleader here. I am just making an objective opinion, setting aside my  biases and subjective preferences of our players and team. Basing my points on the facts and reality. 
 

I love Petey but I am not gonna be blinded by him in conservations such as this. When we play the Avs I hope he breaks Makar’s ankles. 
 

The only type of person who’d put Petey as #1 overall in his draft year is someone who can’t set aside their biases or really doesn’t watch Makar, see his impact and accomplishments in comparison to Petey. 
 

It’s not close in comparison. No one else would have him over Makar. Not yet anyway. Perhaps down the road. 
 

Canucks till I die, even if I don’t agree with direction, but have to respect the better talent that’s out there just like our players do on a nightly basis. I love hockey. 

[McBackup]

2 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Wow, The Hockey Writers have a crazy mock draft and I can see it happening too. With so many strong performances in the U18 tourney this is their list

https://thehockeywriters.com/2023-nhl-mock-draft-lottery/

 

It's what I've been saying, the Canucks have a chance to get a crazy fall.

The fall here is Benson. He and Smith are the next tier after the big 4 in this draft. If he is available and the Canucks take Sandin-Pellikka over him, that is a horrific reach. ASP's stock is rising due to the position he plays and his shot, not his projections. 

[Pure961089]

58 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

If that happens and we pass on Benson, I’m going to start a rumor that Allvin has chronic flatulence which impedes him from sound decision making 

He'd never pass on Benson if he fell to us. But I can see him dropping like Caufield did. 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, McBackup said:

The fall here is Benson. He and Smith are the next tier after the big 4 in this draft. If he is available and the Canucks take Sandin-Pellikka over him, that is a horrific reach. ASP's stock is rising due to the position he plays and his shot, not his projections. 

The guy to reach for is Wood, who has been consistently rising over the last 2 seasons.  Historically, guys who fall badly usually do so for a reason.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

Sure… we would all be crying in our beers being stuck with Fantilli, Carlsson, Michkov.  All players who would likely be a #1 pick most draft years.

 

Give you head a shake.  These dumb made up strawman arguments are nonsense.

 

Bedard is amazing, but everyone was talking about a high pick, there are other elite players at the top of the draft.  Few superstars, or even top of the lineup players come out of the #11 pick.

How do you think Anaheim feels after sinking to the bottom of the pile? Or Columbus would have, had 2 teams overtaken them. 
 

i'm sure, if Canucks had been bottom of the pile and 2 other teams had overtaken them, the Canucks fans would have said ' oh well nevermind, at least we got Calsson or Mickov...'

If you think so, maybe you are the one that should give your head a shake...

 

Lets be honest here, the coverted prize was/is Bedard with Fantilli second. 
 

Fun fact, everyone was having a go a Canucks for winning meaningless games, but Chicago did the same at the end of the season. What's the difference?

They ended 3rd last instead of bottom of the pile, could have been overtaken by two teams and picked 5th instead... you just don't know, what happens next. 
 

I was also on the tank after the shocking start to the season, but thats how the cookie crumbles. I will never not cheer for a win...

As for superstars or top line players come out of the 11th pick, this was supposed to be a very deep draft, and now 11th pick suck?

There's a decent chance a top line / top 6 player or a top 4 if not better D comes at the 11th pick. 

11th OA pick... noticeables

Iginla, Jeff Carter, Kopitar, Philip Forsberg
and to a lesser extend Fiala, Villardi, and a few other. 
 

If this really is a deep draft, we should get a good player. 
 

Finally, would I have loved a top 4 pick? Of course I bloody would, but that was never gonna happen. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by spook007

[McBackup]

2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

He'd never pass on Benson if he fell to us. But I can see him dropping like Caufield did. 

We don't know that. Allvin and this hockey ops department have conducted one draft, we really don't have anything to base this off. 

 

Also, I don't like the Caufield comparisons. Caufield is like 5'6. Benson is 5'10. That's slightly undersized for the NHL, but the average height of a North American male and the same height as Bedard, Kane, Hughes, and several others. He doesn't really play "small" by pretty much every scouting report either. His biggest concern will be adding weight to his frame, but if he is there at 11 they should run to the podium. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Chicago should have lost 3 first round picks. Everything that is wrong with Hockey Canada starts with how they handled Chicago in 2011. 

Things needs to change. 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

Imagine if Chacgo hadn't pointlessly won their 2nd to last game of the season against playoff contending Pittburgh. They would have finished last, a point behind Anahiem, and Columbus would have been in that 3rd spot to get Bedard in the draw. 

 

Edit:

Btw, had Chicago lost that pointless game, Pittsburgh would have made the playoffs and Florida would have missed instead of being a game away from the eastern final. 

Bet there's more than a few Leafs fans cursing that now.... 

[Baggins]

16 minutes ago, Odd. said:

I think the main concern is that Blackhawks got a slap in the wrist rather than what should have seemed like a heftier punishment to where it hurts most: draft picks, from a hockey standpoint. 
 

Covering up the sexual assault in order to not dismantle psyche of the team during its cup runs in which they ultimately came out with 3 has a lingering stench that is hard to get rid of. Yes they fired all the management involved, they were fined $2M (the group that owns the Blackhawks own $4B) and Beach got a measly $2M, which for a top 10 pick and as promising as he was, is significantly on the shorter end of his potential earnings. 
 

Blackhawks should have been punished more, and have had their ability to rebuild and future growth of the team hindered due to covering up abuse at the expense of winning multiple of cups. We’ve seen teams like Arizona and New Jersey forfeit their 1sts for considerably less, Columbus forfeiting their 2nd round pick for signing a coach still under contract to us. However Blackhawks, openly in a rebuild, heading towards a draft with a generational talent, they should have to forfeit their right to draft said talent, due to all those circumstances above.

 

Though anybody suggesting ill towards Bedard need to take a long look at themselves in the mirror. This kid has nothing to do with the past. The amount of crap I’ve seen on social media hoping he has a career ending injury, or he is “part of the problem” for allowing himself to be drafted by Chicago is pure insanity and delusion at its worst.

$50k is a slap on the wrist. $2m is a hefty fine regardless of the owners net worth. Penalizing draft picks typically only happens with tampering charges and this came out a decade after the fact. Were they fined a draft pick it would have been their 2022 pick as the incident was investigated and Chicago fined in October 2021. Btw, the actual offender resigned after the first cup rather than being fired. Would it have affected that or other cup runs had it come out at the time? Who can say about 2010, but I doubt it would have affected further runs. I'm not sure where you got Beach received $2m because all I could find was the settlement was confidential. Agreeing to a confidentiality clause typically adds money to the settlement as well. I'd wager it was much higher than that given the circumstances.

 

I see this as just bitter self righteous fans angry their team didn't win the Bedard sweepstake and even angrier a hated rival did. Where was this outrage before Chicago won the lottery and were sitting 3rd? Better yet, where was all this Chicago outrage last year when they picked 7th overall six months after this scandal was settled?

[hammertime]

27 minutes ago, McBackup said:

We don't know that. Allvin and this hockey ops department have conducted one draft, we really don't have anything to base this off. 

 

Also, I don't like the Caufield comparisons. Caufield is like 5'6. Benson is 5'10. That's slightly undersized for the NHL, but the average height of a North American male and the same height as Bedard, Kane, Hughes, and several others. He doesn't really play "small" by pretty much every scouting report either. His biggest concern will be adding weight to his frame, but if he is there at 11 they should run to the podium. 

My concern with Benson is with all the talent he plays with he's not very effective on the PP when the D box out he struggles to create on the inside. Where for instance Heidt slices through the D and feasts on the PP. Just an observation at this point I'm not sure which of the 2 players I prefer. Benson's details are much more polished. 

[Baggins]

33 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Bet there's more than a few Leafs fans cursing that now.... 

There were only two teams in the lottery I definitely didn't want to see Bedard go to - Chicago and Montreal. But that Chicago win causing TO's current playoff woes almost makes it acceptable. 

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, Baggins said:

There were only two teams in the lottery I definitely didn't want to see Bedard go to - Chicago and Montreal. But that Chicago win causing TO's current playoff woes almost makes it acceptable. 

I hate Chicago, and the thought of Bedard going there makes me sick. 
However, if it had to be....

silver lining. 

[swimsWithDucks]

9 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Tanking doesn't even guarantee the 1st overall pick. Sure it gives you a higher chance but we've seen in the past where other teams jump up many spots to win 1st overall. It just wasn't meant to be right now. Hopefully he'll want to play with the Canucks at some point in his career.

Tanking doesn't guarantee getting Bedard. But you're hoping that 8 years from now, Bedard will leave Chicago - a city he would have spent 8 years in - to come to Vancouver because what nostalgia? Super logical

[mordekai]

3 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Hoping Dvorsky or Reinbacher drop to us.. but after reading a bunch of draft articles I’ve changed my tune and maybe it’s fine if we draft a smaller, skilled winger like Benson.  
 

Nate Danielson would be a good pick as well.  Solid, all around right shot C.
 

If we’re fine taking a winger it’s actually a nice spot to draft as there’s a ton of skill out there.
 

Still no idea how Allvin makes the roster make any sense *next* year though.

From articles I have read Reinbacher nor ASP arent game changers but because they are both RHD everyone here is salivating over them. I rather have a game changer or a line driver 

Edited May 10, 2023 by mordekai

[ilduce39]

13 minutes ago, mordekai said:

From articles I have read Reinbacher nor ASP arent game changers but because they are both RHD everyone here is salivating over them. I rather have a game changer or a line driver 

Yeah, that’s kind of what I was saying about Benson - sounds like he has that kind of upside.  If we have to “settle” for a guy who has 1st line potential that isn’t a bad spot at all.
 

Still, I won’t be mad if we take Reinbacher or ASP simply because a promising middle pairing RD has real value around the league - not just within the fanbase.  Same goes with some of the mid-1st round Cs that could be kicking around with our pick.

Edited May 10, 2023 by ilduce39

[mordekai]

14 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Yeah, that’s kind of what I was saying about Benson - sounds like he has that kind of upside.  If we have to “settle” for a guy who has 1st line potential that isn’t a bad spot at all.
 

Still, I won’t be mad if we take Reinbacher or ASP simply because a promising middle pairing RD has real value around the league - not just within the fanbase.  Same goes with some of the mid-1st round Cs that could be kicking around with our pick.

I personally don’t watch any of the players but I trust that we should be getting someone who can drive the play at 11th. I feel Allvin traded for Hronek so he isn’t force to draft a rhd for their first round pick. 

[dougieL]

11 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Tanking doesn't even guarantee the 1st overall pick. Sure it gives you a higher chance but we've seen in the past where other teams jump up many spots to win 1st overall. It just wasn't meant to be right now. Hopefully he'll want to play with the Canucks at some point in his career.

You understand that a draft class does not consist of one high end prospect and 250 other players who are all exactly as good as each other, right?

Edited May 10, 2023 by dougieL

[dougieL]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

This.... imagine how we would all feel, had we been bottom of the pile after selling off the family silver and missing out on Bedard...

 

The fans would have gone crazy...

Sure, the fans would have been disappointed to lose out on Bedard, but I personally would been pretty happy to have the second overall pick. In our current scenario, we also don't have Bedard and we have the 11th pick. I'll let you decide whether no Bedard plus the second pick or no Bedard plus the eleventh pick would be better for the team.

[spook007]

44 minutes ago, dougieL said:

Sure, the fans would have been disappointed to lose out on Bedard, but I personally would been pretty happy to have the second overall pick. In our current scenario, we also don't have Bedard and we have the 11th pick. I'll let you decide whether no Bedard plus the second pick or no Bedard plus the eleventh pick would be better for the team.

Daft way to put it...

would I like a $1000 or a mystery box likely to contain $10-500.... hmmmm

Sure, but that was not really the point, was it?

Tanking doesn't guarentee you 1st OA, and while the consulatiin prize would be good, this fan base would go off their mind if we, finally had the chance for 1OA, especially with a generational talent at the top of the cake, and then dropped. In particular to a team like Chicago....

 

Were you celebrating every loss the past season?