Bennings terrible pro scouting and player analysis

[ilduce39]

It’s notable that JR / Allvin have basically continued the overall Benning aggressive building strategy - just thusfar showing a lot more skill at bringing in effective players.  
 

They also seem content to build around JB’s core.

 

I really hope they can get this group to the consistent playoff level - for all of Benning’s mistakes he brought in some players who could go down as all-time Canuck greats.

[DownUndaCanuck]

9 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The main problem was hiring two complete idiots to coach the team.  I wonder what the bubble team could have done under an actual coach instead of Green and the baboons he had for assistants.

Absolutely this - the bad coaches we had over the last half a decade cost JB his career IMO. They wanted to try and give some rookies/AHL guys a chance and it back-fired big time, I think it was during the spree where guys (in Pittsburgh mainly) were going in with no experience and having success. WD and Green were such bad coaches and it shows - neither have a full time NHL career going forward now.

 

When you look at the wins for the coaches, I think it correlates more with the coaching staff than the GMs. Crawford was well over 0.500, AV had almost double the wins to losses, then obviously our big core gets destroyed and Torts comes in - 0.500 hockey ever since. WD and Green were below 0.500 and we finally get a tried-and-tested coach in BB who somehow coaches that same Green (133-147-34) team to 50-40-13. 

 

I think back when we hired WD and Green there was a good coaching carousel going on and we whiffed on some big names.

[King Heffy]

48 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Absolutely this - the bad coaches we had over the last half a decade cost JB his career IMO. They wanted to try and give some rookies/AHL guys a chance and it back-fired big time, I think it was during the spree where guys (in Pittsburgh mainly) were going in with no experience and having success. WD and Green were such bad coaches and it shows - neither have a full time NHL career going forward now.

 

When you look at the wins for the coaches, I think it correlates more with the coaching staff than the GMs. Crawford was well over 0.500, AV had almost double the wins to losses, then obviously our big core gets destroyed and Torts comes in - 0.500 hockey ever since. WD and Green were below 0.500 and we finally get a tried-and-tested coach in BB who somehow coaches that same Green (133-147-34) team to 50-40-13. 

 

I think back when we hired WD and Green there was a good coaching carousel going on and we whiffed on some big names.

The best Canucks coaches all had experience too: Neilson, Quinn, Crow, AV.

[Timråfan]

18 hours ago, Gurn said:

I find it interesting, and a bit strange how some people will talk of what a mistake it was too let Forsling and .... go. "Too soon" they say; yet some  will now say it is fine to have Hironek, rather than wait for the draft picks to develop.

If it was a timing issue, fine; but for a lot it is simply because 'new shiny management' better than old management-even though that is also too soon to really tell.

You’re reaching now. 

 

18 hours ago, Gurn said:

New shiny management has made multiple mistakes, along with their good moves.

Jury still out, pending further evidence.

State those mistakes and let’s see if they are mistakes anyone would bother about.

 

I say Tocchet, Kuz and Hronek.

What do you raise with?

[Timråfan]

11 hours ago, eeeeergh said:

Bennings two biggest problems:

 

1. no patience 

2. disdain for analytics 

 

 

I would say his worst problem is the part where you build a team, both in management and players.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Absolutely this - the bad coaches we had over the last half a decade cost JB his career IMO. They wanted to try and give some rookies/AHL guys a chance and it back-fired big time, I think it was during the spree where guys (in Pittsburgh mainly) were going in with no experience and having success. WD and Green were such bad coaches and it shows - neither have a full time NHL career going forward now.

 

When you look at the wins for the coaches, I think it correlates more with the coaching staff than the GMs. Crawford was well over 0.500, AV had almost double the wins to losses, then obviously our big core gets destroyed and Torts comes in - 0.500 hockey ever since. WD and Green were below 0.500 and we finally get a tried-and-tested coach in BB who somehow coaches that same Green (133-147-34) team to 50-40-13. 

 

I think back when we hired WD and Green there was a good coaching carousel going on and we whiffed on some big names.

With respect, I hope you didn't have higher expectations during a period of time when this team was supposed to suck.    Torts is/was a proven coach.   He got probably the best results anyone could expect.    Crow had a very good team to coach most of the time, and of course AV did too (how'd he do in PHI by comparison, and that team was actually pretty good at the start of his tenure?).   Green had a pretty bad to mediocre at best roster, that was constantly changing, for most of his time with us.    Bruce had a worse start than Green had with the same roster, and got canned, goaltending was only great when Bruce came in ....   That's two coaches this roster killed.    And of those coaches, only one actually won a round (well two because they recorded the play-ins as playoff games, and rightly so).    

 

Not saying good experienced NHL coaches don't make a difference, because they do (Torts in CLB?).   Bruce lost because he didn't recognize goaltending wasn't up to par and install a system to help them.   Green lost because he didn't adjust his system(s), and made a critical error wasting his pre-season on finding the 13th man (Chiasson over Gadj, for that one year he was actually right though) and instead should have focused on the massive roster change and had those guys all playing games right away to get used to each other.     The players themselves also killed both coaches,  Horvat, Brock and EP came in not ready with Green, and this season Miller was guilty of that too.. 

 

Once context is added ... things don't look the same.   AV, if we kept him, maybe we'd of had a couple more ok years with that "stale core"... we did have one 7th finish overall left ... AV, doubt his record would have been much better than Greens during the down years.  Same with WD.   You know when Edler was -35 and the Sedins could barely manage 50 points.   Ben Hutton, Del Zotto, Stecher in the top four ... yikes.   Guddy.    Aside from Edler and Tanev, who were never top level top pairing guys our D-core was awful.   For all the Green hate,  he rejuvenated Pearson's career (and Pearson has always appreciated Green for that),  and was smart enough to add Brock to the PP early,  EP too, and give QHs the time he needed to learn from his mistakes instead of getting 14 minutes a night, four on the PP that some hard ass coaches do with their rookies/young players.    We owe him some gratitude for that - some coaches would bench young players for making mistakes.    And it's not like he wasn't an experienced coach.   Two other teams wanted him at the time. 

 

Torts is friends with Green and they talked ... one thing he's going to do differently if the losing starts, is not go hide in his apartment lol, and he's sure Green will get another gig if he wants.    Funny thing happens with the best coaches.   They end up playing mostly for good teams.    Pretty easy to understand why.   New coaches, usually have to start on a rebuilding or bad team.   

 

Edit:  As for Tochett.   Early returns seem very good.   Like how he does the media - and really like how he's a hands on teaching coach.    Our D core is lucky to have Foote and Gonchar.    Players also seem to really like that about him and his assistants.   A good group considering the age of our team now.   5th youngest?  

Edited May 23, 2023 by IBatch

[RU SERIOUS]

Funny how all the Benning-lemmings shouted their overwhelming support when he was given that last contract renewal with his AHL Calibre coach - sidekick Green (just before they were both fired, put on a barge and pushed out to sea), when most "Normal" Canucks fans were screaming for both their dismissals years prior - proving how tone deaf and incapable Aqua-Lini is in managing this team.  There is no excuse for the stupidity that Aqua-Lini allowed this franchise to endure under his incapable ownership.   

 

Let's not lose sight of the real issue at hand with this franchise!! 

[Snake Doctor]

New management will destroy this team even worse. It’s going to be brutal watching this team next year.

[Baggins]

19 minutes ago, Snake Doctor said:

New management will destroy this team even worse. It’s going to be brutal watching this team next year.

[alt kilgore]

I didn't start this OP but I'll jump on the dog pile if its there. 

 

The problem with JB......was that there wasn't any one problem.  It was the plethora of bad decision on top of bad decision on top of bad decision. It wasn't just the obvious big deal flops like LE, Gudbranson, OEL, it was because there were so many other smaller terrible trades and signings that compounded things that rapidly devalued the team every year.

 

It wasn't just overpaying one or two acquisitions, it was overpaying/over terming pretty well all of them. JB showing his desperation to agents. And his arrogance and stubbornness. He wooed Arizona for two years trying to land OEL, without actually watching him play in those two years apparently.

 

It wasn't just over valuing and badly evaluating pro free agents and where they were in their on ice production, it was doing that with almost all of them.  I have to laugh at the excuse some Benning defenders make..."nobody could have predicted so and so would not work out here...."  Um....to quote a cliche, that's why he was paid the big bucks.  He was supposed to be the one that played in the NHL, worked in other organization's management, Do some actually have the balls to say they should be just as good as one of the a select 32 people hired as an NHL GM?

 

It wasn't just not stocking up on draft picks, it was trading away the amount of picks to where JB, the "draft king" reduced his picks to less than even the allotted number during his term.  On a team with no farm to speak of.

 

And to those who point to his #1 picks he didn't trade away that worked out.  Implying that picking Petey and Hughes forgives everything?  He also flubbed Virtanen and Joulevi, and the others are still proving themselves.  Over eight years of drafting near the top, and including the miserably low number of picks after the first round developed here and thriving here, and missing on players like Tchatuck and Nylander,  I'd still put his drafting on balance at a C at best.

 

He left the team with no identity, no direction. No prospects. No culture. No plan, and the wrong coach. Like hiring a first time chef who doesn't actually know how to cook. Or how to get all the items on the plate at the same time.  He did manage to pick out some nice main course luxury proteins, but not enough side dishes or salads, wine pairings, to complete the meal.  And now those proteins are going to spoil unless this new group of chefs can manage to find the right ingredients and dishes to compliment them, with a strict budget,  before we have to throw them out and start over.  JR and PA still have a lot of work cut out for them. Its complicated.  i wish them good luck, they're going to need it

 

 

 

 

[iceman64]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:33 PM, vannuck59 said:

Yah Benning is the worst GM ever. Stupid moves any 5th grader could have done better.

Yeah Demko Petey Quinn JTM etc.. All useless! POS Bums! Get rid of them!! NOW! 

 My God how people can be just THAT stupid? 

No wonder people think  most Canucks fans are really just idiots, and to be fair, most are. 

Prove it? Well how many here believe the bush league media here? LOTS!  

Edited May 24, 2023 by iceman64

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Yeah Demko Petey Quinn JTM etc.. All useless! POS Bums! Get rid of them!! NOW! 

could you please show me where anyone said what you are alleging?

I'd love to see the quotes.

[iceman64]

29 minutes ago, Gurn said:

could you please show me where anyone said what you are alleging?

I'd love to see the quotes.

Alleging? Ummm the thread might have something to do with it, this has been going on for 2 years now, this isn't new! Where you been?

 Ok you want proof to start off with? JT Miller, the moron media said we got stiffed on it yet he comes in and pulls a 100 point season and first line on most teams but everyone (except for some of us) jumped on the wagon, came on the CDC and parroted everything they said as if it had a oz of f'n truth to it.. good grief! Lmao! 

Edited May 24, 2023 by iceman64

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Alleging? Ummm the thread might have something to do with it, this has been going on for 2 years now, this isn't new! Where you been? 

so no quotes of people saying that those players suck?

Dang I was so looking forward to seeing that stuff in print.

 

Well I guess I'll just leave you to get upset about stuff nobody said. 

Have fun.

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

so no quotes of people saying that those players suck?

Dang I was so looking forward to seeing that stuff in print.

 

Well I guess I'll just leave you to get upset about stuff nobody said. 

Have fun.

Are you clueless? Lol  Nobody said anything? Omfg! Yeah RIGHT! 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Are you clueless? Lol  Nobody said anything? Omfg! Yeah RIGHT! 

Waiting for you to quote people saying those players suck.

But do go on building strawmen, that you can then get mad at.

[Dr. Crossbar]

Benning, Benning ... suddenly is trending ... hot damn ... he is the son of ... spending!

[iceman64]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

Waiting for you to quote people saying those players suck.

But do go on building strawmen, that you can then get mad at.

Omg your funny, your on here enough, and signing the players I mentioned were great pick ups mixed with some bad but that's normally every GM, yet lots of people hang him out to dry like he did nothing and I clearly argue that's not true and I always have, and actually it's lame bringing it up over and f'n over because it is f'n over!  

 But nooooo we had such a bad team because of Benning yet said roster went on winning streaks so how the F is it ALL his fault, because honestly, if we ended up with the same roster if JB started the job with just "some" locked in players instead of what Gillis locked in and able to trade right away, and picks and a farm with depth.. 

 There was none of that, locked in term contracts, next to zero picks because we traded them away for the roster and no one in the pipeline!  

What a shi t show this team was at the time, and it stayed with the broken identity for years until the whole team was finally gone and that just happened 2 years ago from 2012

 Yet people said we have nothing but a crappy team like our core is garbage and tear it down.. how the F have you missed any of this??  and you ask for proof? Quotes?  

Exhibit A..  this thread.. and how many like it have been posted? Omfg! Seriously? Lmao.. c'mo...  

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Omg your funny, your on here enough, and signing the players I mentioned were great pick ups mixed with some bad but that's normally every GM, yet lots of people hang him out to dry like he did nothing and I clearly argue that's not true and I always have, and actually it's lame bringing it up over and f'n over because it is f'n over!  

 But nooooo we had such a bad team because of Benning yet said roster went on winning streaks so how the F is it ALL his fault, because honestly, if we ended up with the same roster if JB started the job with just "some" locked in players instead of what Gillis locked in and able to trade right away, and picks and a farm with depth.. 

 There was none of that, locked in term contracts, next to zero picks because we traded them away for the roster and no one in the pipeline!  

What a shi t show this team was at the time, and it stayed with the broken identity for years until the whole team was finally gone and that just happened 2 years ago from 2012

 Yet people said we have nothing but a crappy team like our core is garbage and tear it down.. how the F have you missed any of this??  and you ask for proof? Quotes?  

Exhibit A..  this thread.. and how many like it have been posted? Omfg! Seriously? Lmao.. c'mo...  

Still waiting for you to quote anyone that actually said those players suck.

 

 

[iceman64]

6 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Still waiting for you to quote anyone that actually said those players suck.

 

 

How many said Petey sucked at the beginning of his contract when he wasn't producing. 

 How many said Bubble Demko was dead when he wasn't playing well this season? 

 How many roasted JTM for slowly getting off the ice in a game and CDC went off the rails? 

 How many said Hughes was too small when he got here and wouldn't make it? 

 I'm not going to sit here any longer explaining the past few years to you if you haven't been paying attention, go back and read Canucks forums for the last 5 years ffs! It's been constant! Are you for real?  

You have never heard we suck tear it down before? 1000's of times in the last 5 years? Really? Now that's funny.. we're done here lol