[Report] Penguins name Kyle Dubas as President of Hockey Operations & GM

[rekker]

57 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He traded a 1st round pick just to get rid of one year of Patrick Marleau's contract.  He traded Nazem Kadri and a 3rd round pick for Alex Kerfoot and Tyson Barrie.  He traded Sean Durzi and a 1st round pick for Jake Muzzin.  He traded Trevor Moore plus two 3rd round picks for Jack Campbell.  He traded Mason Marchment for Denis Malgin.  He traded a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick to get Ryan O'Reilly for 2 months.  He traded two 2nd round picks and one 3rd round pick for a way past his prime Mark Giordano.  He traded a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick for Stefan Noesen, who played one game for Toronto.  He traded a 7th round pick for Jared McCann and then left him unprotected in the expansion draft and McCann was scooped up by Seattle and is now a 40-goal scorer.

 

I think in terms of trades, Kyle Dubas was worse than Jim Benning and Mike Gillis.  Probably one of the worst GM's in NHL history in terms of making trades really.  Not to mention the fact that he only signed Matthews to a 5-year deal instead of an 8-year deal and now Toronto is in danger of losing him for nothing.  He also signed Tavares to an $11 million per year deal when he was barely a PPG player in New York.  Only signed Marner to a 6-year deal instead of an 8-year deal.  And he also screwed up the Nylander deal by allowing him to hold out after his 3-year entry contract had expired and allowed Nylander to put a gun to his head to get a 6-year $45 million contract after a 61-point season.

 

Dubas is probably one of the worst GM's in NHL history to be honest with you...

Thank you, so well said. Yet so many fanboys talk of the value adds by Dubas?? He had probably five bad moves to every good one, that may be generous. Such an overrated term for Dubas in TO that is defended simply because it is TO. He was horrible. How many picks did he leave them with over the next two years? Bahaha. 

[flat land fish]

7 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Is Benning big on analytics?

Ya know the number 1 looks a lot like the number 7 which is pretty foundational to numeracy

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

Thank you, so well said. Yet so many fanboys talk of the value adds by Dubas?? He had probably five bad moves to every good one, that may be generous. Such an overrated term for Dubas in TO that is defended simply because it is TO. He was horrible. How many picks did he leave them with over the next two years? Bahaha. 

And Treliving is worse. And both are still 100x better than Benning. 

[rekker]

21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And Treliving is worse. And both are still 100x better than Benning. 

Lol. Can't really disagree. Other than I like how Treliving leans towards a more physical lineup.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He traded a 1st round pick just to get rid of one year of Patrick Marleau's contract.  He traded Nazem Kadri and a 3rd round pick for Alex Kerfoot and Tyson Barrie.  He traded Sean Durzi and a 1st round pick for Jake Muzzin.  He traded Trevor Moore plus two 3rd round picks for Jack Campbell.  He traded Mason Marchment for Denis Malgin.  He traded a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick to get Ryan O'Reilly for 2 months.  He traded two 2nd round picks and one 3rd round pick for a way past his prime Mark Giordano.  He traded a 1st round pick and a 4th round pick for Stefan Noesen, who played one game for Toronto.  He traded a 7th round pick for Jared McCann and then left him unprotected in the expansion draft and McCann was scooped up by Seattle and is now a 40-goal scorer.

 

I think in terms of trades, Kyle Dubas was worse than Jim Benning and Mike Gillis.  Probably one of the worst GM's in NHL history in terms of making trades really.  Not to mention the fact that he only signed Matthews to a 5-year deal instead of an 8-year deal and now Toronto is in danger of losing him for nothing.  He also signed Tavares to an $11 million per year deal when he was barely a PPG player in New York.  Only signed Marner to a 6-year deal instead of an 8-year deal.  And he also screwed up the Nylander deal by allowing him to hold out after his 3-year entry contract had expired and allowed Nylander to put a gun to his head to get a 6-year $45 million contract after a 61-point season.

 

Dubas is probably one of the worst GM's in NHL history to be honest with you...

No denying it - he made some bad moves during some of those playoff pushes.  Marleau stands out for me.  The extensions to Marner and Matthews were also heavily criticized for the way they expired immediately after UFA status.  But his strength was in finding cheap talent.  Bunting was dirt cheap.  Mikheyev was dirt cheap.  Giordano (I dont care what you think - he is a Norris-winner who has aged more gracefully than any other veteran in recent history and he has literally all the stats to back it up) was dirt cheap.  He needed those depth players to help fill out a very top-heavy squad.  It kept the team competitive over the five years.

 

Dubas has probably one of the strongest GM records to start his career.  221-109-42.  .651 points percentage.  That is a VERY good number - probably the best ratio for a Leafs GM (or even the entire league) that even Punch Imlach would get jealous over.  His job in Toronto was to give the team a chance to succeed in the playoffs and he certainly put them in a good position every April.  

 

95% of GMs get fired because they failed to win in the regular season.  The worst GMs are the ones who promise to make playoffs every year and fail.  Jim Benning is the prime example (2/7 playoff appearances).  Kyle Dubas is the 5% exception (5/5 playoff appearances).  And that's why Dubas was unemployed for about two weeks and got a PROMOTION while Benning... did Toronto interview him?  I heard that rumour and saw the airport photo.

 

How anyone can think Dubas belongs anywhere in a "worst in NHL history" is beyond me.  8 or so GMs have been fired in the past two years and none of them were as controversial and debated over like Dubas' was.

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

41 minutes ago, rekker said:

Thank you, so well said. Yet so many fanboys talk of the value adds by Dubas?? He had probably five bad moves to every good one, that may be generous. Such an overrated term for Dubas in TO that is defended simply because it is TO. He was horrible. How many picks did he leave them with over the next two years? Bahaha. 

He consistently iced a team that showed promise to succeed in the playoffs.  If you're first or (close to first) in your division in February, it's not surprising for the GM to go for all-in pushes.  Tampa did it.  Boston did it.  New York did it.  Even Florida did it last year.  If he truly made five bad moves to every good one, the Leafs would've crashed out of playoff contention every December and Dubas would've been fired many Januaries ago.

[King Heffy]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And Treliving is worse. And both are still 100x better than Benning. 

Treliving>Benning>Dubas and it's not even close.  I'm not suggesting any of them are good, but Dubas is by far the worst of the bunch and only longevity prevents him from being in the same conversation as Mike Milbury.  This idiot has made history with his incompetence.

[canuck73_3]

“You won’t see me next week somewhere else”

 

He wasn’t lying, it’s been 2 weeks. 

[canuck73_3]

13 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Treliving>Benning>Dubas and it's not even close.  I'm not suggesting any of them are good, but Dubas is by far the worst of the bunch and only longevity prevents him from being in the same conversation as Mike Milbury.  This idiot has made history with his incompetence.

Dubas is nowhere near that bad, neither is Treliving tbh. 
 

Benning not making up his mind between win now or build will always be his down fall. 

[Tony Romo]

Considering FSG have won multiple world series in Boston, and multiple trophies in Liverpool I think this is a massive boost for Dubas reputation. 

 

Please note that while public opinion on FSG seems to be low, Liverpool fans are being ridiculous considering what life was like before FSG (other ownership groups might have fired Klopp this year which would have been a mistake) and Boston fans complain about everything since they are spoiled. 

[ilduce39]

Old Dubie said something to the effect of “I wouldn’t bet against Sullivan, Crosby, Malkin and Letang” regarding a rebuild.

Does that mean a Miller deal could still be on the menu? 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

No denying it - he made some bad moves during some of those playoff pushes.  Marleau stands out for me.  The extensions to Marner and Matthews were also heavily criticized for the way they expired immediately after UFA status.  But his strength was in finding cheap talent.  Bunting was dirt cheap.  Mikheyev was dirt cheap.  Giordano (I dont care what you think - he is a Norris-winner who has aged more gracefully than any other veteran in recent history and he has literally all the stats to back it up) was dirt cheap.  He needed those depth players to help fill out a very top-heavy squad.  It kept the team competitive over the five years.

 

Dubas has probably one of the strongest GM records to start his career.  221-109-42.  .651 points percentage.  That is a VERY good number - probably the best ratio for a Leafs GM (or even the entire league) that even Punch Imlach would get jealous over.  His job in Toronto was to give the team a chance to succeed in the playoffs and he certainly put them in a good position every April.  

 

95% of GMs get fired because they failed to win in the regular season.  The worst GMs are the ones who promise to make playoffs every year and fail.  Jim Benning is the prime example (2/7 playoff appearances).  Kyle Dubas is the 5% exception (5/5 playoff appearances).  And that's why Dubas was unemployed for about two weeks and got a PROMOTION while Benning... did Toronto interview him?  I heard that rumour and saw the airport photo.

 

How anyone can think Dubas belongs anywhere in a "worst in NHL history" is beyond me.  8 or so GMs have been fired in the past two years and none of them were as controversial and debated over like Dubas' was.

 

 

The difference between Benning and Dubas is that Benning actually had to draft his entire core while he was the GM. Dubas was given a core and even then managed to never win a playoff round until this year. 
 

I’m not gonna stick up for Benning. He made some horrible moves. But he also drafted Petey, Hughes and Demko. And traded for Miller. Which impact player did Dubas acquire in his 5 years as a GM?  Zero. Not only that he traded away a core player in Kadri who went on to win a Stanley Cup with Colorado. 
 

With the core group that was handed to Dubas, he should have done a lot more that win one playoff round in 5 years. He has now left that organization in a shambles. Their core 4 all need new contracts over the next 2 years, they have no depth, no prospects and no draft picks. So not sure how you can say that Toronto is better off now than when Dubas arrived 5 years ago. 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The difference between Benning and Dubas is that Benning actually had to draft his entire core while he was the GM. Dubas was given a core and even then managed to never win a playoff round until this year. 
 

I’m not gonna stick up for Benning. He made some horrible moves. But he also drafted Petey, Hughes and Demko. And traded for Miller. Which impact player did Dubas acquire in his 5 years as a GM?  Zero. Not only that he traded away a core player in Kadri who went on to win a Stanley Cup with Colorado. 
 

With the core group that was handed to Dubas, he should have done a lot more that win one playoff round in 5 years. He has now left that organization in a shambles. Their core 4 all need new contracts over the next 2 years, they have no depth, no prospects and no draft picks. So not sure how you can say that Toronto is better off now than when Dubas arrived 5 years ago. 

Keep in mind that burden here is on you to prove that Dubas is "one of the worst GMs in NHL history".  You essentially have to discount the fact that he has had an absurdly high winrate in the regular season.  Again - GMs get fired mainly for not making playoffs.  And you're putting Dubas who has a 5/5 score below all of them?  After this year, you can bet your ass that Flyers/Pens fans wish they had someone better in charge.  You have to argue that "Fletcher and Hextall did better jobs than Dubas".  That's on you.

 

You are faulting Dubas for things well outside his control.  Yes, he never inherited a rebuilding team.  Even in year one the team was already expected to contend in the playoffs.  What's your point?  He went all-in every year because the team was so strong in the regular season.  That is what top teams do.  Top teams usually don't have prospect pools because they traded it all away.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a GM's primary job is to get wins in the regular season.  That is the main factor that determines whether or not a GM gets fired.  Treliving probably would've remained the Flames GM had he got his team a wild card spot.  Cheveldayoff would DEFINITELY be fired if his team didn't qualify this year.  No doubt the GM deserves part of the criticism of failing in the playoffs, but you must acknowledge that in sports (especially hockey), the more talented team doesn't always win.  The Presidents' Trophy curse is a thing.  In the case of a team like Florida... you can't stop destiny.  Hell, in the Leafs' past two series with Tampa, the better team lost each time.

 

It's just weird that a Canucks fan places all the weight of a GM's success on playoff wins... when our team repeatedly fails to qualify.  The Panthers squeaked in this year - we all know the story.  If they beat Vegas, nobody is going to turn around and suggest Bill Zito was the best GM this season.  Nobody.

[rekker]

2 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

He consistently iced a team that showed promise to succeed in the playoffs.  If you're first or (close to first) in your division in February, it's not surprising for the GM to go for all-in pushes.  Tampa did it.  Boston did it.  New York did it.  Even Florida did it last year.  If he truly made five bad moves to every good one, the Leafs would've crashed out of playoff contention every December and Dubas would've been fired many Januaries ago.

Dubas iced a great shinny team. He failed miserably at adding a legit, cup calibre goalie, the D is still terrible. The bottom six is average at best. The core four simply can't elevate from their free wheeling, regular season play. Yip, he built a great regular season shinny team that can't elevate at playoffs. Spent all future draft capital and still, a shinny team. He had years and some star players to build a playoff team and failed miserably. I can't believe anyone can call his tenure a success.

[Rick_theRyper]

Do the stars line up for a Miller trade for the 14th? Flip that for a lower pick and a Defensmen? Draft a center with the 11?

[PhillipBlunt]

10 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Benning is dying to get back in the game, Kyle. Scoop up him and Green before they’re gone. 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Do the stars line up for a Miller trade for the 14th? Flip that for a lower pick and a Defensmen? Draft a center with the 11?

Miller cares too much about winning for Dubas to have any interest.

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Keep in mind that burden here is on you to prove that Dubas is "one of the worst GMs in NHL history".  You essentially have to discount the fact that he has had an absurdly high winrate in the regular season.  Again - GMs get fired mainly for not making playoffs.  And you're putting Dubas who has a 5/5 score below all of them?  After this year, you can bet your ass that Flyers/Pens fans wish they had someone better in charge.  You have to argue that "Fletcher and Hextall did better jobs than Dubas".  That's on you.

 

You are faulting Dubas for things well outside his control.  Yes, he never inherited a rebuilding team.  Even in year one the team was already expected to contend in the playoffs.  What's your point?  He went all-in every year because the team was so strong in the regular season.  That is what top teams do.  Top teams usually don't have prospect pools because they traded it all away.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a GM's primary job is to get wins in the regular season.  That is the main factor that determines whether or not a GM gets fired.  Treliving probably would've remained the Flames GM had he got his team a wild card spot.  Cheveldayoff would DEFINITELY be fired if his team didn't qualify this year.  No doubt the GM deserves part of the criticism of failing in the playoffs, but you must acknowledge that in sports (especially hockey), the more talented team doesn't always win.  The Presidents' Trophy curse is a thing.  In the case of a team like Florida... you can't stop destiny.  Hell, in the Leafs' past two series with Tampa, the better team lost each time.

 

It's just weird that a Canucks fan places all the weight of a GM's success on playoff wins... when our team repeatedly fails to qualify.  The Panthers squeaked in this year - we all know the story.  If they beat Vegas, nobody is going to turn around and suggest Bill Zito was the best GM this season.  Nobody.

You are faulting Dubas for things well outside his control.

 

What exactly does this even mean?  Dubas didn’t have control over himself when he pissed away the future of the Toronto franchise?  
 

a GM's primary job is to get wins in the regular season. 
 

Is this statement some type of a joke?  So a GM’s job is not to win playoff games and win a Stanley Cup? 
 

Keep in mind that burden here is on you to prove that Dubas is "one of the worst GMs in NHL history". 

 

I’ve already proven that Dubas is one of the worst GM’s in NHL history. My prior posts with all the factual supporting information proves that. It’s up to you to disprove it. 
 

The Leafs are a complete mess right now. Their superstar player is 30 days away from having 100% control over his future. He has Treliving by the balls. He literally can reject any contract extension and walk to free agency at 26 years old with Toronto getting nothing in return. And you’re trying to convince me that Dubas had no control over that situation?  He is the one who literally created that situation. 
 

Toronto has no depth, no prospects and no draft picks. The only reason Dubas got another job is because he is a part of the club. We all know that. We’re not stupid. 

[Rick_theRyper]

14 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Miller cares too much about winning for Dubas to have any interest.

Huh?

[King Heffy]

Just now, Rick_theRyper said:

Huh?

Look at the guys Dubas invested in long-term in Toronto.  Miller isn't exactly the type of player Dubas seems to prioritize.  He much prefers paying soft floaters who are afraid of the puck.