HKSR Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Warhippy said: To be completely honest. Size matters. Since 2011's Bruins cup win the following is the accurate average height and weight of every cup winning team in the NHL 2011 Bruins: 6 foot 1, 202 pounds 28.5 age 2012 Kings: 6 foot 2 209 pounds 26.85 age 2013 Hawks: 6 foot 2 203 pounds 27.85 age 2014 Kings: 6 foot 2 208 pounds 27.25 age 2015 Hawks: 6 foot 1 197 pounds 28.23 age 2016 Pens: 6 foot 1 196 pounds 27.34 age 2017 Pens: 6 foot 1 195 pounds 28.71 age 2018: Caps: 6 foot 1 202 pounds 27.18 age 2019: Blues: 6 foot 2 203 pounds 27.10 age 2020: Bolts: 6 foot 1 205 pounds 28.10 age 2021 Bolts: 6 foot 2 205 pounds 28.87 age 2022 Avs: 6 foot 1 199 pounds 27.51 age 2023 Knights: 6 foot 2 203 pounds 28.40 age As one can see, aside from the Penguins and their 4 HOF playing core of Letang, Malkin, Crosby and Fleury (5 if you include Kessel who will be in there at this rate) it was only the Avs and Hawks who tipped the scales under 200 pounds. When we consider this and weight it against Vancouver the Canucks in the same order of time, the Canucks have only 4 times been heavier than 200 pounds, and won 2 presidents trophies during that time. They have averaged 6 foot 1 inch in height while topping 6 foot 2 5 times and since 2014/2015 have consistently been 27.5 years of age or younger. BUT! Have averaged 196 pounds as a team since 2016/2017 with the past 3 seasons seeing the Canucks as one of the smallest teams by weight in the league at an average 193 pounds. When we "base things off of one playoffs" yes it is meaningless. But when we look back and see that only 2 of the cup winning teams in this last 12 years have been smaller; and both of those teams had a minimum of 4 future hall of famers on them in the Hawks (Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, Seabrook) and the Pens (Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury, Kessel) we can see that yes, in fact teams that are in fact heavier and do have players that play a heavier style of game do in fact win out in the playoffs over smaller teams. In fact, ironically. Only 2 teams went to the finals being the larger team in the matchup and lost in that time. One being the 2011 Vancouver Canucks. When you consider that the average cup winning team has a blue line that averages 6 foot 2 and 2010 pounds or heavier over the past 12 years and the averaged out size towards the 200-205 pound mark is due to the forward core; you realize how important size really is in the playoffs and why. It's not really a surprise. It's simply the fact that when you're the bigger team, you can withstand the punishment of the playoffs for a longer period of time. The playoffs are war, and you need the physical size to battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_Hawk Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 50 minutes ago, aGENT said: Yeah I don't get the $4+ comments... Same folks that want to pay Bear $3m with an injured shoulder I guess...? At +/- (preferably -)$3m x 3 or 4, I think he'd be a great fit as a 4B/5A next to Hronek and still be reasonably priced/term to slide down to 3rd pair eventually if a guy like Hirose (or other) surpasses him. With a lot of the exact qualities our D is lacking. But yes, bigger dollars need to be reserved for a guy like Graves/Mayfield as UFA or a Pesce or Carlo in trade. Yes, he is a 3rd pairing guy on a team with a good D. I'm all about bringing him in for ~3mx3, but not a long term nor a penny more. He is NOT a 2nd pair LHD on the D I hope with can build in the next couple years. If we sign him longer term, he will just block guys like Hirose's development. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 All for adding Soucy if he's game, and if it's a sensible contract for a player who is really a number 5 defenseman, depth wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 10 hours ago, Citizen Erased said: I get what you’re saying and I agree to a point, but I was mostly referring to the height of players. It’s why I used Myers as an example. Obviously, we don’t need rail thin defencemen. I’m just saying they don’t need to be 6’5” or taller all the time. I would gladly take a defenceman that isn’t a giant, but has filled out completely and more importantly, plays a physical style. Yeah, same. I'd take 6'0" 210lbs over 6'3" 195lbs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: All for adding Soucy if he's game, and if it's a sensible contract for a player who is really a number 5 defenseman, depth wise. The gamble will be can he be second pairing guy when partnered with d the level of Hronek. Where Hronek leads the pairing and he just makes the simple/physical plays etc if our management projects it I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt since for the most part their pro scouting has been pretty good much better then we are use to lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, R3aL said: The gamble will be can he be second pairing guy when partnered with d the level of Hronek. Where Hronek leads the pairing and he just makes the simple/physical plays etc if our management projects it I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt since for the most part their pro scouting has been pretty good much better then we are use to lol Without a doubt. I feel that the coaching staff is solid enough that they'll be able to bring out the best in anyone they bring in. I've had my reservations about management, but they have made some serious moves that show an actual direction with some actual forethought. Good points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Warhippy said: I had to do a deep dive on it the other day. Case in point, Colton Parayko in St Louis. 6 foot 6 230 pounds. Siegenthaler washington, 6 foot 2 218 pounds. Brooks orpik washington 6 foot 3 217 pounds. Actually, it would be easier for me to point out the smaller players. Penguins 16/17 Daley, 5 foot 11 199 pounds. Smallest D man on the team. Next is letang at 6 foot 201 pounds. Penguins 2017. Chard Ruhwedel 5 foot 11 191 pounds then Matt Hunwick at 5 foot 11 194 pounds. Blues. Butler and Del zotto at 6 foot and 6 foot 1; 196 and 197 pounds Caps. Djoos and Ness 6 foot 169 and 5 foot 10 184 By and large when you pour through the rosters of the cup winners over the last 12 years going back to the Bruins you see there are 1-2 smaller puck moving defencemen, but almost across the board the main core is 6 foot 2 and larger bodied at an average of 210 ish which honestly is wild as even orlov while 5 foot 11 was 217 pounds. In fact, it was the 14/15 hawks that had the overall smallest defence of any cup winning team over the past 12 years with an average height/weight of 6 foot 2.5 inches and 204 pounds. New strategy Get the shortest guys we possibly can So theyre below the sight lines of the gorillas all of these other teams are icing if our guys are short enough, theyll be able to skate around completely unnoticed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Lasso Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 13 hours ago, aGENT said: I'd still prefer we spend some of that cap space on a better partner for Hughes. Whether that's a Graves/Mayfield, or a trade for a Carlo or similar etc Hughes, Graves/Mayfield/Carlo etc Soucy, Hronek Prospect/UFA, Schenn Likewise. It makes sense to invest in at least one higher end shutdown D. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Would be a nice player to anchor the third pair, PK…. But no thanx to top 4 deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 14 hours ago, aGENT said: I'd still prefer we spend some of that cap space on a better partner for Hughes. Whether that's a Graves/Mayfield, or a trade for a Carlo or similar etc Hughes, Graves/Mayfield/Carlo etc Soucy, Hronek Prospect/UFA, Schenn True. Start at the top, ensuring that Hughes is paired with a long-term partner. That makes the most sense. The last thing Quinn needs is a revolving door of defensive partners. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Size can be a tricky thing at times. If we iced a bottom 6 that included Scott Walker, Rick Rypien and Derek Dorsett it would look quite small on paper. But... you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, HKSR said: Yeah, same. I'd take 6'0" 210lbs over 6'3" 195lbs. Height is an odd fixation with hockey fans. Anyone who has spent time following combat sports knows that there's no such thing as a heightclass. Fighters are separated by weight for a reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 2 hours ago, HKSR said: Yeah, same. I'd take 6'0" 210lbs over 6'3" 195lbs. So you're saying I got a chance? Cause I'm taller than Garland but weigh the same as Boeser 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: So you're saying I got a chance? Cause I'm taller than Garland but weigh the same as Boeser I think we all have a chance. I'm sure some of us are shorter than Garland but weigh as much as Chara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: So you're saying I got a chance? Cause I'm taller than Garland but weigh the same as Boeser You need to get your heart rate and cholesterol checked 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Baratheon said: Height is an odd fixation with hockey fans. Anyone who has spent time following combat sports knows that there's no such thing as a heightclass. Fighters are separated by weight for a reason. This is exactly why Ive been advocating for the 4'10'' 200lb guys. They have this incredibly low center of gravity, imagine trying to knock over a wall. It simply cant be done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Baratheon said: Height is an odd fixation with hockey fans. Anyone who has spent time following combat sports knows that there's no such thing as a heightclass. Fighters are separated by weight for a reason. Yes, but it's no secret that height has an affect. There's a reason Jon Jones was an absolute animal at light heavyweight, he was bigger and faster than everyone else. Conor McGregor dominated lower weight classes as well because of his taller frame. Height allows for adding more weight without losing speed. Bisping mentioned that George St Pierre looked slower at middleweight than welterweight. Cause it was harder for GSP to support that weight on a smaller frame. There's a reason taller fighters opt to fight in lower weight classes than they should. McGregor fought at featherweight and looked pretty gross not gonna lie, but he was dominating cause he was 5'9. For reference the current featherweight champ, Volkanovski, is 5'6. But that's two different sports. So height matters more in fighting cause reach advantage can change the dynamics of a fight more than reach advantage can affect hockey. Myers has major reach advantage on most players but is still kinda garbage defensively. He's a glorified pylon some nights. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, eeeeergh said: This is exactly why Ive been advocating for the 4'10'' 200lb guys. They have this incredibly low center of gravity, imagine trying to knock over a wall. It simply cant be done. Lowkey this is pretty much what Hoglander is. 5'9 but is 185 pounds, shorter than Garland (at least Garland's listed height, I feel like they gave him an extra inch. Lucky guy) but is listed as 20 pounds heavier than Garland. Hogs is a tank and is why I think he's one of the few players that could play a bottom 6 role despite being short. Guy is sturdier on his skates than Petey who is 6'3. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 as a number 5 guy I'm fine with this, as a top 4 no thanks unless PA is landing a another top 3 d man like Hanifin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeergh Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Just now, N7Nucks said: Lowkey this is pretty much what Hoglander is. 5'9 but is 185 pounds, shorter than Garland (at least Garland's listed height, I feel like they gave him an extra inch. Lucky guy) but is listed as 20 pounds heavier than Garland. Hogs is a tank and is why I think he's one of the few players that could play a bottom 6 role despite being short. Guy is sturdier on his skates than Petey who is 6'3. The tall guys are sometimes built like sticks And they end up like Bambi on skates Hoglander is built like a fridge Imagine pushing a fridge down an icy surface, once it gets momentum, get out of the way b/c its going right through you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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