[Signing] Canucks sign Carson Soucy

[coryberg]

25 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Dear Eight Pound, Six Ounce, Newborn Infant Jesus, don't even know a word yet, just a little infant, so cuddly, but still omnipotent. We prey that Gonchar and Foote can help mold Mr soucy into a top 4 dman. 

 

 Also due to a binding endorsement contract that stipulates I mention PowerAde at each grace, I just wanna say that PowerAde is delicious and it cools you off on a hot summer day and we look forward to PowerAde's release of mystic mountain blueberry. Thank you, for all your power and your grace, Dear Baby God, Amen.'

[PhillipBlunt]

19 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Dear Eight Pound, Six Ounce, Newborn Infant Jesus, don't even know a word yet, just a little infant, so cuddly, but still omnipotent. We prey that Gonchar and Foote can help mold Mr soucy into a top 4 dman. 

 

 Also due to a binding endorsement contract that stipulates I mention PowerAde at each grace, I just wanna say that PowerAde is delicious and it cools you off on a hot summer day and we look forward to PowerAde's release of mystic mountain blueberry. Thank you, for all your power and your grace, Dear Baby God, Amen.'

[shiznak]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

Who's claiming he's a saviour? He's a 4B/5A who brings some much needed tools and skill sets to this team and will complement our smaller, puck moving D (while not being a puck moving liability himself) help our D zone play, PK etc.
.

 

You're generally a pretty smart poster, that I agree with a lot, but this comparison to Dumba is a bit weird an oversimplified. Like they're completely different players, and especially at the point of the expansion draft, Dumba was considered a clearly better/top 4 player. He still is (though quickly declining in effectiveness and oft injured) and I still wouldn't want any part of him on this team right now as he doesn't have the tools or skill sets this team needs at the moment. Especially at likely more cap and term than Soucy required. "Better" player or not. He simply doesn't have the tools or skill set we need as he's basically an older, broken version of Hronek, whom we already have.

 

And you have no idea SEA didn't want him. He may have told them he wanted to explore free agency.

I mean, after he signed that extension Dumba has been regressing every year since. That expansion year, Soucy and Dumba practically had the same amount of points, while Soucy having no PP minutes. Soucy also led the entire team in +/- (yeah not really a fruitful stat, but still meaningful). So, they could have easily went with a different route and exposed Dumba and give Soucy a more predominant role on the team. Especially, a team that was cap strapped.

 

I’m just saying, I would have preferred management try and court Dumoulin (4m/yrs) over here and re-sign Burroughs. Rather than paying Cole and Soucy 3m each. The former option probably would have saved us a million of cap.

[Tower102]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:32 PM, Provost said:

I actually think it will be Cole with Hughes and a Soucey-Hronek pairing.  At least it makes the most sense on paper.

 

He played on the Tampa top pairing for a stretch on the right side with Hedman.l and actually did well.

 

I think having a really solid 2nd pairing is actually way more important than who you pair Hughes with.  I mean the guy makes everyone who plays with him look good.  A good 2nd pairing makes Hughes way better as he doesn’t have to play 28 minutes a game.

Agreed. Top players like Hughes and Hronek can carry players, plus they can both play to full potential with the freedom of having a defensive guy beside them opposed to each other. Hronek and Hughes can still pair at times as well. Plus I'd rather 45-50 minutes of Hughes or Hronek on the ice than 25. It also allows us to shelter the 3rd pairing even more. 

[eeeeergh]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

I mean, after he signed that extension Dumba has been regressing every year since. That expansion year, Soucy and Dumba practically had the same amount of points, while Soucy having no PP minutes. Soucy also led the entire team in +/- (yeah not really a fruitful stat, but still meaningful). So, they could have easily went with a different route and exposed Dumba and give Soucy a more predominant role on the team. Especially, a team that was cap strapped.

 

I’m just saying, I would have preferred management try and court Dumoulin (4m/yrs) over here and re-sign Burroughs. Rather than paying Cole and Soucy 3m each. The former option probably would have saved us a million of cap.

Heh but then Burroughs would be paired with Hughes or Hronek which is simply unacceptable 

[aGENT]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

I mean, after he signed that extension Dumba has been regressing every year since. That expansion year, Soucy and Dumba practically had the same amount of points, while Soucy having no PP minutes. Soucy also led the entire team in +/- (yeah not really a fruitful stat, but still meaningful). So, they could have easily went with a different route and exposed Dumba and give Soucy a more predominant role on the team. Especially, a team that was cap strapped.

Honestly don't know what Dumba has to do with Soucy, or how you got on this tangent but it's not really here nor there. They're entirely different players. And it's pretty obvious why they'd pick a guy with an obvious history of being a top 4, right side D. If nothing else, they probably felt he'd at least have more trade value, and that defensive D like Soucy are easier assets to find (which they are, we just signed two good ones for minimal cap and term). 

 

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

 

I’m just saying, I would have preferred management try and court Dumoulin (4m/yrs) over here and re-sign Burroughs. Rather than paying Cole and Soucy 3m each. The former option probably would have saved us a million of cap.

And given us less capable D overall... I loved Burroughs, but he was a solid 7-8 guy. Cole and Soucy can both play top 4 (even if Soucy is a borderline 4B/5A). IMO your being obtuse.

Edited July 4, 2023 by aGENT

[Gawdzukes]

11 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I have a feeling that Foote and Gonchar are going to mold this defense into something far better than what fans have been used to. 

If they can beat

 

 then yes

 

Maybe some sticky Mozza D.

 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Tower102 said:

Agreed. Top players like Hughes and Hronek can carry players, plus they can both play to full potential with the freedom of having a defensive guy beside them opposed to each other. Hronek and Hughes can still pair at times as well. Plus I'd rather 45-50 minutes of Hughes or Hronek on the ice than 25. It also allows us to shelter the 3rd pairing even more. 

I like Hronek quite a bit but elevating him to Hughes level is a bit much. I'm not saying directly you are doing this but I'm seeing this more and more. Let's see what Hronek is for us before deciding we only need two D.

[PhillipBlunt]

42 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

If they can beat

 

 then yes

 

Maybe some sticky Mozza D.

 

Yes. The Swiss cheese style of defense, where forwards slip right past the defensemen isn't very effective. 

[shiznak]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Honestly don't know what Dumba has to do with Soucy, or how you got on this tangent but it's not really here nor there. They're entirely different players. And it's pretty obvious why they'd pick a guy with an obvious history of being a top 4, right side D. If nothing else, they probably felt he'd at least have more trade value, and that defensive D like Soucy are easier assets to find (which they are, we just signed two good ones for minimal cap and term). 

 

And given us less capable D overall... I loved Burroughs, but he was a solid 7-8 guy. Cole and Soucy can both play top 4 (even if Soucy is a borderline 4B/5A). IMO your being obtuse.

I don’t see how Soucy is a borderline top 4B/5A, when analytically he and Burroughs has the same statistics, defensively. Soucy also has never played in the top 4 in either Minnesota or Seattle averaging 30 seconds per game against elite competition in his career. While Burroughs averages about the same as Soucy (he actually averages .02 seconds higher), in his short NHL career. 
 

If you compare both players on natural stat trick, this season. They pretty much have an identical advance stats, with Soucy being the better offensive defensemen.

Edited July 4, 2023 by shiznak

[aGENT]

28 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I don’t see how Soucy is a borderline top 4B/5A, when analytically he and Burroughs has the same statistics, defensively. Soucy also has never played in the top 4 in either Minnesota or Seattle averaging 30 seconds per game against elite competition in his career. While Burroughs averages about the same as Soucy (he actually averages .02 seconds higher), in his short NHL career. 
 

If you compare both players on natural stat trick, this season. They pretty much have an identical advance stats, with Soucy being the better offensive defensemen.

Advanced stats aren't everything...

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I don’t see how Soucy is a borderline top 4B/5A, when analytically he and Burroughs has the same statistics, defensively. Soucy also has never played in the top 4 in either Minnesota or Seattle averaging 30 seconds per game against elite competition in his career. While Burroughs averages about the same as Soucy (he actually averages .02 seconds higher), in his short NHL career. 
 

If you compare both players on natural stat trick, this season. They pretty much have an identical advance stats, with Soucy being the better offensive defensemen.

I think you need to spend some time watching hockey games. The difference is night and day if you watch them. Stats don't tell the whole story ... they don't even tell half the story.

 

What @aGENT said is completely obvious if you've watched both players for any amount of time.

[Pears]

41 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I don’t see how Soucy is a borderline top 4B/5A, when analytically he and Burroughs has the same statistics, defensively. Soucy also has never played in the top 4 in either Minnesota or Seattle averaging 30 seconds per game against elite competition in his career. While Burroughs averages about the same as Soucy (he actually averages .02 seconds higher), in his short NHL career. 
 

If you compare both players on natural stat trick, this season. They pretty much have an identical advance stats, with Soucy being the better offensive defensemen.

I don’t see how we’d be going anywhere if we had Burroughs in the top 4 instead. I liked Burroughs but to even suggest he’d be a better fit in the top 4 over Soucy solely based on fancy stats is insane. 

[canuck73_3]

54 minutes ago, shiznak said:

I don’t see how Soucy is a borderline top 4B/5A, when analytically he and Burroughs has the same statistics, defensively. Soucy also has never played in the top 4 in either Minnesota or Seattle averaging 30 seconds per game against elite competition in his career. While Burroughs averages about the same as Soucy (he actually averages .02 seconds higher), in his short NHL career. 
 

If you compare both players on natural stat trick, this season. They pretty much have an identical advance stats, with Soucy being the better offensive defensemen.

[shiznak]

25 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Advanced stats aren't everything...

 

10 minutes ago, Pears said:

I don’t see how we’d be going anywhere if we had Burroughs in the top 4 instead. I liked Burroughs but to even suggest he’d be a better fit in the top 4 over Soucy solely based on fancy stats is insane. 

It isn’t, but it gives you in an unbiased view of a player. 
 

People suggesting Soucy is a better fit in our top 4, when neither players has ever played in the top 4 throughout their careers. Every micro/advance stats in the book suggests Burroughs is an equal player. 
 

19 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I think you need to spend some time watching hockey games. The difference is night and day if you watch them. Stats don't tell the whole story ... they don't even tell half the story.

 

What @aGENT said is completely obvious if you've watched both players for any amount of time.

I actually do watch both players. I’m curious to see why people think Soucy is a better fit on our top 4? While providing hard evidence.

 

Not “you just need to watch them play”.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Honestly don't know what Dumba has to do with Soucy, or how you got on this tangent but it's not really here nor there. They're entirely different players. And it's pretty obvious why they'd pick a guy with an obvious history of being a top 4, right side D. If nothing else, they probably felt he'd at least have more trade value, and that defensive D like Soucy are easier assets to find (which they are, we just signed two good ones for minimal cap and term). 

 

And given us less capable D overall... I loved Burroughs, but he was a solid 7-8 guy. Cole and Soucy can both play top 4 (even if Soucy is a borderline 4B/5A). IMO you're being obtuse.

As you know, I wanted to draft Bouchard badly.   And still keeping tabs lol.   Whoops!   One thing i'm super happy about, is we got Soucy.   And was vocal about targeting him for a year or so.   Manson too, sure would have been nice, but Soucy is for sure something we need. 

 

   The main thing i based this on, was the bubble.   It was a playoff series, and well,  he was just a beast against us, smashing everything.   Was my first choice of all the UFAs, because his cost wouldn't be great.   And he's exactly what you want in the post season.   Other guy I noticed was Whitecloud, but not as much as Soucy.   

 

Given our PK has been awful since the OEL deal, and we sent them all packing, and the make up of our D and wingers is smurf smurf.    Not sure why anyone would be critical of this deal.    As long as he keeps playing like he has, no way he won't become a fan favourite within a couple weeks.   This is what the "Poolman" deal, should have looked like. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by IBatch

[shiznak]

9 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=y&p1=8477369&p2=8477335&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

 

Near identical. 

[canuck73_3]

12 minutes ago, shiznak said:

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playercompare.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=y&p1=8477369&p2=8477335&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single

 

Near identical. 

If you think they’re on par you don’t watch them play. 
 

 

[Makaramel MacKhiato]

Soucy is such a good fit, plus he's a heavy hitter & fighter. Hronek is probably the perfect pair for him. Although, him and Myers together is a massive blue line pairing. 

[shiznak]

5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

If you think they’re on par you don’t watch them play. 
 

 

Just like how everyone saw how OEL, Myers, Hamonic, Gudbranson, Poolman, etc played on their previous teams before they got here, right?