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realistically gauge our prospects potential and future role


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#31 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:09 AM

^ Correct in saying we should be patient with our prospects in general, like we were with Schneider.

Flawed in pointing out that we could've taken Rodin in 1st round instead of Schroeder. Yay?


Overall, our prospect pool looks shallow to some, in that we don't have a ton of scoring stars or stud d-men, but to me it looks quite full in terms of team-first oriented guys and role players. But a lot of guys are still some time away. ie. It looks like the prospect pool of a team that is enjoying current success in the NHL.

Opportunites on the NHL squad need to exist for these prospects to flourish anyway. Oh, and there also needs to be NHL hockey again.
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#32 Jägermeister

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:14 PM

Well it could be worse... We could be San Jose.
They have only have Thomas Hertl, Freddie Hamilton, and maybe Matt Nieto who could develop into NHLers.
We're still probably in the bottom 5 in terms of future talent, but San Jose is last by a long shot.
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#33 Jaku

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:25 PM

Well it could be worse... We could be San Jose. They have only have Thomas Hertl, Freddie Hamilton, and maybe Matt Nieto who could develop into NHLers. We're still probably in the bottom 5 in terms of future talent, but San Jose is last by a long shot.


It's true San Jose's prospect pool is weak.
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#34 Langdon Algur

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

Goaltenders:
-Eddie Lack: NHL Backup/ 1b Starter - (NHL comparable: Craig Anderson)
-Joe Cannata: AHL starter
-------------------------------------------
-David Honzik: BUST

Defense:
-Chris Tanev: NHL 2nd/3rd pairing (NHL comparable: Cody Franson)
-Kevin Connauton :NHL 2nd pairing, PP QB (NHL comparable: Ryan Ellis, Christian Ehroff)
-Frank Corrado: NHL/AHL split 3rd pairing NHL (NHL comparable: Evan Oberg)
-Yann Sauve: NHL/AHL split 3rd pairing NHL (NHL comparable: Arron Rome)

--------------------------------------
-Adam Polasek: Europe top 6

LW:
--------------------------------------------
-Darren Archibald: AHL bottom 6/4th liner
-Steven Anthony: BUST
-Bill Sweatt: AHL 1st liner/NHL injury plug (NHL/AHL comparable: Brett Sterling)

RW:
-Nicklas Jensen: NHL 2nd liner (NHL comparable: Kris Versteeg/ David Booth)
-Zack Kassian: NHL 3rd liner (NHL comparable: Chris Neil)
------------------------------------------
-Anton Rodin: Europe top 6


Centers:
-Jordan Schroeder: NHL 2nd liner (NHL comparable: Cliff Ronning)
-Brendan Gaunce: NHL 3rd liner (NHL comparable: Manny Maholtra)
-------------------------------------------
-Alexandre Mallet: AHLer with occassional NHL callups (NHL comparable: Steve Pinizotto)
-Prab Rai: BUST
-Alex Freisen: hard to tell but likely AHLer
-Stefan Schneider: AHL 4th liner
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#35 Bodee

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:15 PM

I doubt Connauton, Lack, Jensen, Mallet will make the NHL.

Mallet would have to develop like RR to make the NHL, Connauton doesn't play his size or with enough intensity similarly Jensen and Lack is imo just too tall/lanky to make it for us............maybe another team.

We are really struggling imo.

Gaunce, Sweatt, Tanev, Schroeder, Kassian and maybe Suave and Rodin with Connauton as an outside chance if he develops more aggression.

Edited by Bodee, 26 November 2012 - 01:19 PM.

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#36 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:34 PM

Gotta love how you say that Kassian will be a second liner, and then compare him to Todd Bertuzzi... Yeah, he was a pretty alright second liner... What was it? 46 goals during the dead puck era?


i was thinking about more in the way he plays instead of points and stuff. i can see kassian as a 45-60 point guy throughout his career. 60pts would be his high
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#37 thad

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

can someone please PM King of ES and tell him about this thread
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#38 SamJamIam

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:05 PM

I doubt Connauton, Lack, Jensen, Mallet will make the NHL.

Mallet would have to develop like RR to make the NHL, Connauton doesn't play his size or with enough intensity similarly Jensen and Lack is imo just too tall/lanky to make it for us............maybe another team.

We are really struggling imo.

Gaunce, Sweatt, Tanev, Schroeder, Kassian and maybe Suave and Rodin with Connauton as an outside chance if he develops more aggression.


What in the crap? There is so much derp in there I don't even know where to start.

-Jensen is the highest-scoring rookie on one of the most terrible teams that has played in the SEL in quite some time. Plus he's 6'2" and 200lbs at 19!

-Mallet got drafted a few months ago and he's already a bust? Arniel has no idea what to do with the kid. How can he excel without a role?

-Conversely, Gaunce hasn't played a single pro game and he's somehow a guaranteed NHLer?

-Sweatt isn't exactly kicking ass either. He's got wheels but I'm seeing Rodin do far more impressive things than Sweatt at the moment.

Plus there's all the players that seem very much off your radar. LaBate, Corrado, McNally and Cannata are all looking pretty damn promising. Are you sure your conclusions aren't all based off of one Wolves game?
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#39 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:44 PM

can someone please PM King of ES and tell him about this thread


why? whats wrong with it?
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#40 Tangerines

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

why? whats wrong with it?



nothing
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#41 Salmonberries

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

Did Mike Gillis really say he was planning to draft Anton Rodin in the FIRST ROUND!!??

Wow.

Edited by Keke Mortson's helmet, 26 November 2012 - 05:10 PM.

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#42 canucklehead44

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:06 PM

I agree with many of your evaluations.

Goaltenders:
-Eddie Lack: NHL 1A (Niemi, Anderson)
-Joe Cannata: NHL Backup/AHL starter-clemmensen like
-------------------------------------------
-David Honzik: Does not make NHL, possible AHL Backup

Defense:
-Chris Tanev: NHL 2nd pairing-kevin klein
-Kevin Connauton :NHL 3rd pairing, offensive D -Matt Niskanen, Kurtis Foster
-Patrick McNally : NHL 7/8 -Alex Sulzer
-Frank Corrado: NHL 2nd pairing-Jordan Leopold
-Yann Sauve: NHL 7/8 - Theo Peckham
-Ben Hutton: NHL top 4 - Andrej Meszaros
--------------------------------------
-Henrik Tommernes: Europe top 4
-Jermey Price: AHL top 4
-Adam Polasek: Europe top 6
-Evan McEneny: AHL top 6
-Peter Andersson: Europe top 6

LW:
--------------------------------------------
-Darren Archibald: AHL bottom 6/4th liner
-Ludwig Blomstrand: Europe 3rd liner
-Steven Anthony: AHL bottom 6
-Bill Sweatt: AHL top 6
-Wesley Myron: AHL 3rd liner
-Matthew Beatie: AHL 3rd liner

RW:
-Nicklas Jensen: NHL 2nd line- Andrei Kostitsyn
-Zack Kassian: NHL 2nd line- Ryan Clowe
-Anton Rodin: NHL call-up - Matt Pettinger
------------------------------------------
-Alexandre Grenier: Europe top 6
-Pathrik Westerholm: Europe 3rd liner
-Kellan Tochkin: Europe 3rd liner

Centers:
-Jordan Schroeder: Undersized NHL 2nd/3rd liner - PM Bouchard
-Brendan Gaunce: NHL 2nd/3rd line two way forward - Brooks Laich
-Joseph Labate: fringe NHL player
-Alexandre Mallet: NHL 3rd/4th line agitator - Gregory Campbell
-------------------------------------------
-Prab Rai: AHL 3rd liner/ECHLer
-Alex Freisen: AHL 3rd liner
-Stefan Schneider: AHL 3rd/4th liner

Edited by canucklehead44, 26 November 2012 - 06:12 PM.

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#43 Pears

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:18 PM

I doubt Connauton, Lack, Jensen, Mallet will make the NHL.

Mallet would have to develop like RR to make the NHL, Connauton doesn't play his size or with enough intensity similarly Jensen and Lack is imo just too tall/lanky to make it for us............maybe another team.

We are really struggling imo.

Gaunce, Sweatt, Tanev, Schroeder, Kassian and maybe Suave and Rodin with Connauton as an outside chance if he develops more aggression.

You sir, are quite a ways off with your predictions. Jensen, Lack and Connauton won't make the NHL? :lol: Jensen will easily be a top six forward, Connauton a very solid top 4 D man, and Lack will be a very solid back up.

Gaunce and Schroeder will be very effective 2nd/3rd liners, and Tanev will be a good top 4 D man, think like a poor man's Dan Hamhuis.
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#44 etsen3

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

I think people underestimate Kassian's offensive skills. He has 1st line potential. There's a reason he played for Team Canada and was a top-15 pick.

Other than that our prospect pool is pretty shallow. We have a few guys with potential to be impact players, but Kassian is the only blue-chip.
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#45 bossram

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:53 PM

I'm just going to try to rank the prospects in order of realistic potential. I'll only do the more significant prospects, a lot of them are already longshots and will likely not make the NHL anyway. I'll try to list a "comparable" player for each.

1. Nicklas Jensen - 55+ point goalscorer, 25ish goals; more versatile Michael Ryder or more responsible Alex Semin
2. Zack Kassian - Top-six power player, maybe 50ish points; obviously everyone hoping for a Milan Lucic
3. Jordan Schroeder - I think he will be a top-six center, but not on this team, and not right now; I think he'll break out around Desharnais age
4. Eddie Lack - Back-up goalie pushing for playing time; someone used a Lindback examply and I think that makes sense
5. Chris Tanev - Upper end is a puck-moving, mobile defenseman who can play in the top-four if necessary; thinking Andrew Ference
6. Frank Corrado - Solid, all-around, top-four defenseman; Hamhuis-lite
7. Kevin Connauton - I think he'll be an NHL player, tough to say; maybe a MAB that can actually take a regular shift
8. Anton Rodin - I have a feeling he'll be an NHL player too; same production as Hansen but flashier and not as feisty
9. Alex Mallet - 4th line player with more offense to give, can fight; Lapierre
10. Yann Sauve - Depth NHL defenseman - Andrew Alberts type

11. Joseph Labate - I think he'll make the NHL; depth 4th line; Cory Emmerton type or Abdelkader at the higher end
12. Bill Sweatt - NHL call-up in an injury depleted lineup
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#46 G-52

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

The kids went from living in Minnisota to Winnipeg then to Chicago. Has went from having Arniel, Noel, MacTavish, now back to Arniel as his coachs in 4 years.....

Schneider is a bust to right, took him what? 5-6 years to become a starter.

He was essentially a "free" pick since Gillis said he was gonna take Rodin in the first but nobody took Schroeder.


Schneider isnt a bust, he played well in the AHL. And hes a goalie.. very few goalies play before early in their career.

Rodin would have been an even worse pick, and you wonder why everyone passed on schroeder.. lol
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#47 Kooner91

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:07 PM

Goaltenders:
-Eddie Lack: Good NHL Starter, not elite/Excellent Backup
-Joe Cannata: Fringe Starter at best/ NHL Backup

Defense:
-Chris Tanev: NHL #3/4 Shutdown guy with great first pass(Hamhuis)
-Kevin Connauton :NHL #4/5 #1PP Time(Ehrhoff)
-Frank Corrado: NHL #3/4
-Yann Sauve: NHL #6/7 (Alberts)

LW:
-Darren Archibald: AHL regular/NHL 4th liner
-Bill Sweatt: NHL 3rd Line checker(Hansen)

RW:
-Nicklas Jensen: NHL 1/2 line
-Zack Kassian: NHL 2nd line
-Anton Rodin: NHL bottom 6
-Alexandre Grenier: NHL 4th liner

Centers:
-Jordan Schroeder: NHL 2nd/3rd liner(Morrison-lite)
-Brendan Gaunce: NHL 2nd/3rd liner(J. Staal-Lite)
-Alexandre Mallet: NHL 4th liner(Too many of these players)

Edited by Kooner91, 26 November 2012 - 11:07 PM.

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#48 Bodee

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:58 AM

What in the crap? There is so much derp in there I don't even know where to start.

-Jensen is the highest-scoring rookie on one of the most terrible teams that has played in the SEL in quite some time. Plus he's 6'2" and 200lbs at 19!

-Mallet got drafted a few months ago and he's already a bust? Arniel has no idea what to do with the kid. How can he excel without a role?

-Conversely, Gaunce hasn't played a single pro game and he's somehow a guaranteed NHLer?

-Sweatt isn't exactly kicking ass either. He's got wheels but I'm seeing Rodin do far more impressive things than Sweatt at the moment.

Plus there's all the players that seem very much off your radar. LaBate, Corrado, McNally and Cannata are all looking pretty damn promising. Are you sure your conclusions aren't all based off of one Wolves game?


No, I watch every Wolves game and it may surprise you to hear that I stand by everything I have written above. Take your rose coloured specs off and study the games............it sounds like you are the one not watching. If I haven't mentioned players it's because I haven't seen them enough.

How many games have you seen from the 4 you mention..........and in what league? .............Yeh I thought so.


I didn't write Mallet off. I am saying that he is in a league now where he does not look physically superior to most of the opposition, he is even meeting smaller guys in the AHL who are tough b-------s and unless he seriously works on his ability to back up his plays (hence the RR reference) he will lose out to players with more "game" to offer.

Part of the reason we have so much garment renting and player bashing on here is because most people, like you, seem to overestimate our players (and some compound it by denigrating the opposition)

Reference your point concerning Arneil I don't know what effect the coach is having on these guys...........but again most on here wet themselves at his appointment and are still soothing their butt from the "Let's replace AV with McTavish"nonsense. I watched Wolves last year too and quite honestly last year they were very average but still looked better than what I'm seeing so far this year.

We have no cohesion, and find it difficult to match the intensity of some of the other teams. What success we are having is due, it seems, to cameos from players like Schroeder, Tanev, Sterling and Kassian.

Edited by Bodee, 27 November 2012 - 03:06 AM.

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#49 Ossi Vaananen

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:58 AM

No, I watch every Wolves game and it may surprise you to hear that I stand by everything I have written above. Take your rose coloured specs off and study the games............it sounds like you are the one not watching. If I haven't mentioned players it's because I haven't seen them enough.

How many games have you seen from the 4 you mention..........and in what league? .............Yeh I thought so.


I didn't write Mallet off. I am saying that he is in a league now where he does not look physically superior to most of the opposition, he is even meeting smaller guys in the AHL who are tough b-------s and unless he seriously works on his ability to back up his plays (hence the RR reference) he will lose out to players with more "game" to offer.

Part of the reason we have so much garment renting and player bashing on here is because most people, like you, seem to overestimate our players (and some compound it by denigrating the opposition)

Reference your point concerning Arneil I don't know what effect the coach is having on these guys...........but again most on here wet themselves at his appointment and are still soothing their butt from the "Let's replace AV with McTavish"nonsense. I watched Wolves last year too and quite honestly last year they were very average but still looked better than what I'm seeing so far this year.

We have no cohesion, and find it difficult to match the intensity of some of the other teams. What success we are having is due, it seems, to cameos from players like Schroeder, Tanev, Sterling and Kassian.


I agree to some extent about your cohesion point, but when lines are frequently juggled and players are rotated, it becomes difficult to create that chemistry. I blame it on the coach, and his inability to find line combinations that work and play to a player's strengths. Combine this with a struggling leadership core on the Wolves - namely Ebbett and Haydar - who are not producing and the lack of cohesion is visible. That being said, Schroeder, Kassian, Tanev and Sterling have easily been the most consistent players on the Wolves, far more than 'cameo appearances'.

I've watch every Wolves game this year and participated in every GDT, and to my recollection I see nateb in every GDT and more active in the prospects forum. I hope that clears up this pissing match.

I like nateb, disagree with your assessments of Connauton, Lack, Jensen and Mallet. You go on about Mallet like he has never fought someone his size, when even this season he has fought Cody Beach listed at 6'4''. Mallet is a big 6'1'', in as much as his frame is filled out, he also knows how to use it with hits in every game he plays. He needs development no doubt, but far away from being a write off.

Connauton - he was an AHL all-star last year an honour shared with Thomas Hickey, Ryan Ellis, and Alex Plante. Considering these are all promising defensemen isn't it a positive to have him in the same boat? I'm critical about Connauton's defensive game, but with a steady partner his offensive game shines. Once again, too early to write off.

Lack has struggled this season, and this could be concerning if only for the increased talent level down there. I have to believe however that the sample of 2 previous seasons gives us a better idea of what he's capable of. Far from a write off.

As was mentioned above, Jensen is a dynamic forward scoring against men in a partial NHL SEL. I'm confident that he has all the tools to succeed in the NHL. I haven't had a chance to see his SEL games live, but having watched many highlight reels #46 is on there more often than not.

I share your pessimism about guys like Honzik, and Rodin. It is however far too early to call our prospects and development system poor. It seems the requirement to value a young players potential has to be a prolific goal scorer at all levels with size, speed and skating ability that really only exist in the top 5 picks.
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#50 ashbury

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:49 AM

Schroeder: Complete bust.

No it isn't, hes had 3 years since draft and hasn't had a single NHL game and doesn't come close to a point per game in the lower leagues. He is too small to play bottom 6, and not good enough to play top 6. He will be in the AHL for his entire career unless he learns to create plays like a sedin.


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#51 SamJamIam

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 01:56 PM

I agree to some extent about your cohesion point, but when lines are frequently juggled and players are rotated, it becomes difficult to create that chemistry. I blame it on the coach, and his inability to find line combinations that work and play to a player's strengths. Combine this with a struggling leadership core on the Wolves - namely Ebbett and Haydar - who are not producing and the lack of cohesion is visible. That being said, Schroeder, Kassian, Tanev and Sterling have easily been the most consistent players on the Wolves, far more than 'cameo appearances'.

I've watch every Wolves game this year and participated in every GDT, and to my recollection I see nateb in every GDT and more active in the prospects forum. I hope that clears up this pissing match.

I like nateb, disagree with your assessments of Connauton, Lack, Jensen and Mallet. You go on about Mallet like he has never fought someone his size, when even this season he has fought Cody Beach listed at 6'4''. Mallet is a big 6'1'', in as much as his frame is filled out, he also knows how to use it with hits in every game he plays. He needs development no doubt, but far away from being a write off.

Connauton - he was an AHL all-star last year an honour shared with Thomas Hickey, Ryan Ellis, and Alex Plante. Considering these are all promising defensemen isn't it a positive to have him in the same boat? I'm critical about Connauton's defensive game, but with a steady partner his offensive game shines. Once again, too early to write off.

Lack has struggled this season, and this could be concerning if only for the increased talent level down there. I have to believe however that the sample of 2 previous seasons gives us a better idea of what he's capable of. Far from a write off.

As was mentioned above, Jensen is a dynamic forward scoring against men in a partial NHL SEL. I'm confident that he has all the tools to succeed in the NHL. I haven't had a chance to see his SEL games live, but having watched many highlight reels #46 is on there more often than not.

I share your pessimism about guys like Honzik, and Rodin. It is however far too early to call our prospects and development system poor. It seems the requirement to value a young players potential has to be a prolific goal scorer at all levels with size, speed and skating ability that really only exist in the top 5 picks.


Thanks for writing out common sense so I didn't have to. I literally don't have to disagree with a thing you said.

Oh and Bodee, I've watched a dozen AIK games, half a dozen college games, half a dozen OHL games, almost every Wolves game this season and a few others. What? That's far more than you? Thought so.

Edited by nateb123, 27 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.

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#52 honey badger36

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Realistically I think our prospect pool is pretty weak. Our future first line will have to be acquired through trades and signings.

here goes

Jensen is our best forward prospect I see him being the only boarder line 1st liner of the bunch but most likely will be a better 2nd liner

Gaunce I'm high on this kid I think he will turn out to be a solid 2nd liner.

Kassian might get time on the first and second lines but he will find his home on the 3rd where he will intimidate and chip in a few timely points. His true value will show in the playoffs where a few star players will undoubtedly end up on the IR after recieving (hopefully clean) body checks from him.

J Schroder I have always seen him as superior to CoHo but Ill eat my hat if Gaunce doesn't push him out of that 2nd line spot down to the 3rd with Kass where they will frustrate the hell out of teams top lines.

Mallet I hope can earn a spot on the 4th

As for defence

Tanev Everyone loves this guy. I'm not so convinced. Great puck mover and clock muncher superb possession. He's the Mason Raymond of defence minus a decent shot. I'm not exactly sure what his benefit is other than giving our top 4d's a breather and calming things down while our offensive or defensive pairing is off the ice. that Makes him a 5th or 6th Paired with either a legit defensive or offensive guy to give that line some dimension.

Corrado he's our next Bieksa

Nauts has showed promise but top 4 or bust and I'm doubtful he will crack the nucks top 4 I hope I'm wrong.

Sauve prob 5 or 6th I hope.

goal.

Lack won't be as good as Schnides but Schnides may be run out of tow in a few years so who knows he might get a chance as a starter.

Cannata back up

I doubt anyone else will become canucks regulars.

Edited by honey badger36, 27 November 2012 - 02:29 PM.

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#53 Jaku

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:06 PM

Realistically I think our prospect pool is pretty weak. Our future first line will have to be acquired through trades and signings. here goes Jensen is our best forward prospect I see him being the only boarder line 1st liner of the bunch but most likely will be a better 2nd liner Gaunce I'm high on this kid I think he will turn out to be a solid 2nd liner. Kassian might get time on the first and second lines but he will find his home on the 3rd where he will intimidate and chip in a few timely points. His true value will show in the playoffs where a few star players will undoubtedly end up on the IR after recieving (hopefully clean) body checks from him. J Schroder I have always seen him as superior to CoHo but Ill eat my hat if Gaunce doesn't push him out of that 2nd line spot down to the 3rd with Kass where they will frustrate the hell out of teams top lines. Mallet I hope can earn a spot on the 4th As for defence Tanev Everyone loves this guy. I'm not so convinced. Great puck mover and clock muncher superb possession. He's the Mason Raymond of defence minus a decent shot. I'm not exactly sure what his benefit is other than giving our top 4d's a breather and calming things down while our offensive or defensive pairing is off the ice. that Makes him a 5th or 6th Paired with either a legit defensive or offensive guy to give that line some dimension. Corrado he's our next Bieksa Nauts has showed promise but top 4 or bust and I'm doubtful he will crack the nucks top 4 I hope I'm wrong. Sauve prob 5 or 6th I hope. goal. Lack won't be as good as Schnides but Schnides may be run out of tow in a few years so who knows he might get a chance as a starter. Cannata back up I doubt anyone else will become canucks regulars.


To be honest I really hope that you are wrong about Kassian. I think he is the best prospect in the Canucks system, and has a great offensive upside to his game, while he does have to develop his game more on both offense and defense, that will come with time and experience. I honestly believe that Zack will be a top 6 forward who will produce realistically good numbers. Zack will play on the third when the NHL comes back, but when he develops his pro game it would be hard not seeing him play top 6 minutes.
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#54 sting

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

LOL at critiqing other peoples scouting.

player projection comparable

Zach Kassian top 6 PF Scott Hartnell
Niklas Jensen top 6 W Johan Franzen
Jordan Schroeder top 6 RW/C Brad Marchand
Brendan Gaunce 2-3C Ryan O'Reilly
Anton Rodin btm 6 W Lars Eller (only if he can bulk up)

Frank Corrado top 4 RD Kevin Bieksa
Chris Tanev top 4 RD Dan Girardi
Kevin Connauton top 4 LD Christian Ehrhoff
Yann Sauve 5-8 D Bryce Salvador

Eddie Lack 1B Anders Lindback

Odds are 3-4 of these players will bust but i will remain an optimist untill i see them for a stretch at NHL level.

In saying that... it is possible that 1 or 2 players not mentioned above pull a Burrows/Hansen shocker.

These remaining prospects are either 4th liners (Mallet,Archibald,Friesen) short term fill ins (Sweatt,Cannata,Andersson) or long shots(McNally,Grenier,Labate,Price)

Just my opinion.

Edited by sting, 27 November 2012 - 03:37 PM.

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#55 Derp...

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

I hope you all are right! Especially those tow people that had a good tussle over this. I love the optimisim of everyone. If you look back at previous drafts and look at how many of our picks actually make the NHL and play or are at least on the roster nightly it is very few. Realistically I would say Almost all of the guys mentioned will get a shot at playing an NHL level game at somepoint barring injuries or trades. The only guys that are realistically going to play multiple seasons are Kassian, Jensen, Gaunce, Tanev, Lack as Backup most likely Maybe Corrado or Connauton depending on injuries and trades. Mallet, Grenier, Schroeder, Rodin, and Sweatt will all get opportunities to play, but I doubt they will be regulars. I am excited to see hopefully Jensen and Grenier play on the wolves next season and maybe Gaunce. Problem is we only have so many top line minuets at the AHL level to give out and they need to play as much as they can to improve... I like Grenier and Mallet as 4th liners in the future. We won't see the bulk of our prospects get oppertunities until our current window is closed could be 3-4 years. I think we have potential in a lot of guys, but lack opportunity to give out, especially in a win at any cost place like Van. 5 Regulars, 5 fringers, and a few busts. Stoked for our picks this year though thinking we can pick up a good prospect and maybe another depending on trades. Columbus has three first round picks this year!!!! jealous
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#56 Bodee

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:59 AM

I agree to some extent about your cohesion point, but when lines are frequently juggled and players are rotated, it becomes difficult to create that chemistry. I blame it on the coach, and his inability to find line combinations that work and play to a player's strengths. Combine this with a struggling leadership core on the Wolves - namely Ebbett and Haydar - who are not producing and the lack of cohesion is visible. That being said, Schroeder, Kassian, Tanev and Sterling have easily been the most consistent players on the Wolves, far more than 'cameo appearances'.

I've watch every Wolves game this year and participated in every GDT, and to my recollection I see nateb in every GDT and more active in the prospects forum. I hope that clears up this pissing match.

I like nateb, disagree with your assessments of Connauton, Lack, Jensen and Mallet. You go on about Mallet like he has never fought someone his size, when even this season he has fought Cody Beach listed at 6'4''. Mallet is a big 6'1'', in as much as his frame is filled out, he also knows how to use it with hits in every game he plays. He needs development no doubt, but far away from being a write off.

Connauton - he was an AHL all-star last year an honour shared with Thomas Hickey, Ryan Ellis, and Alex Plante. Considering these are all promising defensemen isn't it a positive to have him in the same boat? I'm critical about Connauton's defensive game, but with a steady partner his offensive game shines. Once again, too early to write off.

Lack has struggled this season, and this could be concerning if only for the increased talent level down there. I have to believe however that the sample of 2 previous seasons gives us a better idea of what he's capable of. Far from a write off.

As was mentioned above, Jensen is a dynamic forward scoring against men in a partial NHL SEL. I'm confident that he has all the tools to succeed in the NHL. I haven't had a chance to see his SEL games live, but having watched many highlight reels #46 is on there more often than not.

I share your pessimism about guys like Honzik, and Rodin. It is however far too early to call our prospects and development system poor. It seems the requirement to value a young players potential has to be a prolific goal scorer at all levels with size, speed and skating ability that really only exist in the top 5 picks.


Good rebuttal. I may not agree with it all but from your perspective you seem at least to have watched the games.

My point about Connauton is entirely to do with his poor defence as you allude to. By that I mean he refuses to use his physique to his advantage. I also agree with your points on Ebbett and Haydar........maybe Andy's beard is getting in his way:-)

Jensen for me is also going to fail because he doesn't use his size to effect. His problem as I see it, is he will not get a 1st or 2nd line place on the Canucks for at least another 4 years if at all and I don't think he is aggressive enough to play further down. He is wasting his time abroad, he should be getting hardened by the AHL.

We are not Calgary or the Leafs. The Canucks market will not stand by in neutral waiting to see if these borderline NHLers (at best) pull through, we have got used to success and high standards.

Apart from the players I have quoted as likely NHLers I maintain the others like Lack, Jensen, Mallet, Connauton, etc will have to show a lot more intensity and ambition if they are going to get a sniff at Vancouver. Lack will need another 3/4 years at least in the AHL before he can even look at a back up goalie place..........there are just too many better alternatives.

My last point on this........as only time will tell who is nearer to being right (no one will be completely correct in their judgement)
I refer to Derp's point above concerning our lack of success in grooming for the NHL. He is right of course and one has to question Vancouver's ability to either make the right picks or develop the picks we make.

I go back to physicality and intensity.
In more than half the games I have watched the Wolves play this season I have been disappointed at the physical side of our team (with few exceptions) What is more this seems to be a trait we are saddled with when viewing our drafts over the past 2/3 years.

It is not always the size our players lack but the ability / motivation to use that size. We had to go outside our own draft to get Kassian.
This might be addressed with Gaunce and Mallet but again it will be down to how they are coached and developed.

Edited by Bodee, 28 November 2012 - 03:17 AM.

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#57 ashbury

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

Good rebuttal. I may not agree with it all but from your perspective you seem at least to have watched the games.

My point about Connauton is entirely to do with his poor defence as you allude to. By that I mean he refuses to use his physique to his advantage. I also agree with your points on Ebbett and Haydar........maybe Andy's beard is getting in his way:-)

Jensen for me is also going to fail because he doesn't use his size to effect. His problem as I see it, is he will not get a 1st or 2nd line place on the Canucks for at least another 4 years if at all and I don't think he is aggressive enough to play further down. He is wasting his time abroad, he should be getting hardened by the AHL.

We are not Calgary or the Leafs. The Canucks market will not stand by in neutral waiting to see if these borderline NHLers (at best) pull through, we have got used to success and high standards.

Apart from the players I have quoted as likely NHLers I maintain the others like Lack, Jensen, Mallet, Connauton, etc will have to show a lot more intensity and ambition if they are going to get a sniff at Vancouver. Lack will need another 3/4 years at least in the AHL before he can even look at a back up goalie place..........there are just too many better alternatives.

My last point on this........as only time will tell who is nearer to being right (no one will be completely correct in their judgement)
I refer to Derp's point above concerning our lack of success in grooming for the NHL. He is right of course and one has to question Vancouver's ability to either make the right picks or develop the picks we make.

I go back to physicality and intensity.
In more than half the games I have watched the Wolves play this season I have been disappointed at the physical side of our team (with few exceptions) What is more this seems to be a trait we are saddled with when viewing our drafts over the past 2/3 years.

It is not always the size our players lack but the ability / motivation to use that size. We had to go outside our own draft to get Kassian.
This might be addressed with Gaunce and Mallet but again it will be down to how they are coached and developed.


Jensen is too young to have played in the AHL this season. He would have had to play another year in junior if he didn't go to Sweden. He definitely made the right move by going over there as clearly he is ready to play against men. You predicting him to fail at the age of 19 is absolutely idiotic, I would have said the same thing even if he wasn't putting up good numbers in the SEL but since he is I can only assume you are talking straight out of your ass.
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#58 Sup CROW

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:49 AM

i have been reading here for a while and it seams that there are a lot of people who expect way too much out of our prospects. not all of our prospects will turn out to be NHLers or even elite NHLers, so realistically what will you expect our prospects to turn out as
here are the prospects

edit: added comparable's to NHLers

Goaltenders:
-Eddie Lack: Decent NHL Starter- lindback like
-Joe Cannata: NHL Backup/AHL starter-clemmensen like
-------------------------------------------
-David Honzik: Does not make NHL, possible AHL Backup

Defense:
-Chris Tanev: NHL 2nd pairing-kevin klein like
-Kevin Connauton :NHL 2nd pairing-salo/garrison like
-Patrick McNally : NHL 2nd-3rd pairing-Allen like
-Frank Corrado: NHL 1st/2nd pairing-carle like
-Yann Sauve: NHL 5th-6th D-man-douglas murray
--------------------------------------
-Henrik Tommernes: Europe top 4
-Jermey Price: AHL top 4
-Adam Polasek: Europe top 6
-Ben Hutton: AHL top 4
-Evan McEneny: AHL top 6
-Peter Andersson: Europe top 6

LW:
--------------------------------------------
-Darren Archibald: AHL bottom 6/4th liner
-Ludwig Blomstrand: Europe 3rd liner
-Steven Anthony: AHL bottom 6
-Bill Sweatt: AHL top 6
-Wesley Myron: AHL 3rd liner
-Matthew Beatie: AHL 3rd liner

RW:
-Nicklas Jensen: NHL 1st line- matt molson like
-Zack Kassian: NHL 2nd line- bertuzzi like
-Anton Rodin: Europe top 6/NHL 3rd liner-hansen like
------------------------------------------
-Alexandre Grenier: Europe top 6
-Pathrik Westerholm: Europe 3rd liner
-Kellan Tochkin: Europe 3rd liner

Centers:
-Jordan Schroeder: NHL 3rd liner-Goc like
-Brendan Gaunce: NHL 2nd/3rd liner-kesler like
-Joseph Labate: NHL 3rd liner- gaustad like
-Alexandre Mallet: NHL 4th liner-lapierre like
-------------------------------------------
-Prab Rai: AHL 3rd liner/ECHLer
-Alex Freisen: AHL 3rd liner
-Stefan Schneider: AHL 3rd/4th liner


what do you expect?
i think corrado is going to turn out well and surprise a lot of people.
if schroeder can overcome his size problem he can be alright.
i can see gaunce turning out like kesler, expected to be a 3rd line checking center and turn out to be a great 2 way forward who can put up points.
our left wingers need to improve big time.
i think Gillis should trade up in the draft this year to get a top 10 pick.

you got word for word from hf boards :facepalm:
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#59 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

you got word for word from hf boards :facepalm:

i actually posted it here first then i went to the HFboards and posted it there. lol
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#60 MoneypuckOverlord

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:51 PM

Too many prospects to mention however I'm just going to name the players I think realisticaly think that has a legit shot at making the NHL.

Zack Kassian, will be top 6 player for us. 50 to 55 point player who every team in the NHL will love to have on their team. 6'3 220 pound guy that has size speed and puts up decent offensive numbers type of top 6 player.

NIcklas Jensen. Top 6 winger. A James Neal type

Frank Corrado. I think he's going to be a top 4 defencemen, in a Kevin Bieska or a Dan Hamhius type player. Christian Erhoff without the offensive abitlies in the 55 point range, but someone that can play decent offence, and very good defence. A.V will be comfortable putting him in the power play or pk. Very solid top 4 dman.

Connauton - I don't know how about this guy. Craig Mctavish had awesome things to say about him, buth is ahl numbers are very sub par, and his plus minus is not great. I know he's a young guy. He needs to badly improve his defensive play. A decent nhl "defender" is not good enough to play defence in the NHL.

Gaunce = 3rd line player like a Manny Malhotra

Chris Tanev = I think he will make the NHL. Good NHL player with little offensive help. He will do the right things, make no mistakes,but make no huge plays. Save player.

Other then that, I don't think we have much prospects that will make an "impact" with the Vancouver Canucks or the NHL. Our pool of prospects is quite pathetic.
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