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[Rumour] Panthers can't afford Weiss, looking to trade him


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#91 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

Those deadline deals were made for useless picks.....not for a roster player, especially one like Luongo.

So let me re-phrase then. Gillis does not seem to want to trade for rental players if he has to give up anything of value in the deal other than picks.


Alright, he hasn't done it traditionally, but when have opportunites like this come around?

This is unique because Luongo is someone we have to move eventually, so with this move we can greatly inprove our Stanley cup odds, by adding someone we wouldn't be able to other wise (as it would be too expensive without Lu) aswell as adding for the future.

This is just such a unique situation, and it is a good idea, if FLA would do it I'm not sure why we wouldn't.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 27 January 2013 - 10:25 PM.

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#92 CanuckofSteel

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

Hmmmm, I think your well and truly off base.

Toronto, Calgary, Columbus and Toronto, if they are looking for rental players, should not be... :picard:

And Detroit could always use a good veteran, but have a top line centre (his name is Datsyuk, you may have heard of him) and a backup, Zetterburg. My guess is if they liked Weiss, would try and signe him in the off season, as their pressing need is considered by some to be a defender to replace some guy, can't recall his name... Help me out here?


Toronto is a random pick but you never what move they might make, they always need centremen and could use Weiss.

Calgary if you remember correctly was the team that traded for Jay-Bo and signed him, they could have the same idea in mind about a potential Weiss deal. They have done this often as you can tell from this past offseason.

Columbus is just a random pick, which I thought may give it a shot.

Detroit could trade for Weiss and then in turn trade away Filpulla, since that situation has a huge ? surrounding it. Also what if Datsyuk or Zetterberg get injured, also they could generate more offense by putting Pavel and Henrik on a line together.

Colorado could use another centre and could send O'Reilly the other way if it doesn't work out in Colorado. Weiss could fill in that slot and they could offer him a contract.

Weiss's negotiating rights could be traded if none of the teams are able to keep him
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#93 LegionOfDoom

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

Toronto and Minnesota, so far, are the only destinations to which Luongo can go.

explain?
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#94 DeNiro

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:51 PM

Toronto and Minnesota, so far, are the only destinations to which Luongo can go.


Yea? No.
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#95 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:58 PM

Toronto and Minnesota, so far, are the only destinations to which Luongo can go.


.. Not really, Minnesota is loaded in net, they need defense (and they are already playing fine without that)

Toronto is in the market but they don't seem to have anything to give with Bozak and Kadri playing aswell as they have.

Washington and Florida are far more likely scenerios right now.
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#96 Edlerberry

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

Washington takes $2.5m of Ovechkins salary, trades OV for Luongo + Booth.

=)
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#97 aqua59

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:35 AM

Washington takes $2.5m of Ovechkins salary, trades OV for Luongo + Booth.

=)


Are you kidding. I see Luongo heading to Montreal for Subban before heading to Washington.
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#98 Niloc009

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

Are you kidding. I see Luongo heading to Montreal for Subban before heading to Washington.


Yeah, cause Montreal definitely needs another elite goaltender.
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#99 TheFame

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Ya how about no. If we can't afford Weiss what makes you think we can afford Luos garbage? We'd be better to trade him for prospects and picks and build our future than trade for a bad contract. Unless you take Upshall off our hands???
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#100 Edlerberry

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:53 AM

Weiss at $5.5m > Booth at $4.25... definitely

Weiss at $5m > Burrows at $4.5m... debatable
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#101 D-Money

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

Are you kidding. I see Luongo heading to Montreal for Subban before heading to Washington.


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#102 Provost

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

That link also speculates that the Panthers could be for sale again.
I don't know if that eliminates the possibility of Luongo deal - he could help sell tickets.


Some folks don't really get that Luongo is one of the two best players to ever don a Panthers uniform (the other one was an ex-Canuck too BTW).

Lots of casual fans there who would love to see him back. Just look at posts here on CDC with folks always wanting mediocre ex-Canucks to return. It is more so for a less devoted fan base who need the star power and name recognition.

One of their local hockey reporters was talking about this on Team 1040 before Christmas.

Edited by Provost, 28 January 2013 - 03:36 PM.

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#103 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

Ya how about no. If we can't afford Weiss what makes you think we can afford Luos garbage? We'd be better to trade him for prospects and picks and build our future than trade for a bad contract. Unless you take Upshall off our hands???


What about Bergenheim??

and is he really a healthy scratch? Or is he injured, cause all the sites I have seen say he is a HS.

Weiss at $5.5m > Booth at $4.25... definitely

Weiss at $5m > < Burrows at $4.5m... debatable


Seem like the same calibre of player (Above average 2nd liner's IMO) and Burrows at slightly less while bringing more dynamics to the table, I like Weiss but I would rather Burrows for our situation myself.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 28 January 2013 - 03:56 PM.

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#104 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:56 PM

Some folks don't really get that Luongo is one of the two best players to ever don a Panthers uniform (the other one was an ex-Canuck too BTW).

Lots of casual fans there who would love to see him back. Just look at posts here on CDC with folks always wanting mediocre ex-Canucks to return. It is more so for a less devoted fan base who need the star power and name recognition.

One of their local hockey reporters was talking about this on Team 1040 before Christmas.


What about if we traded them Luongo and the Sedins for 3 home games a year until they're 37??
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#105 TheFame

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

They could do this if Howden holds weight, he looked good as a call up even when they got blown out by Philly.

I like this deal! I dream of better ones, but essentially Petrovic whom I like, a bit of depth (Bergenheim) and a shot at the cup (Weiss) for Lou...

Win, win

edit; not completely sarcastically, or un sarcastically, Mike Keenan is calling for Weiss as the centrepiece return on Lou... :rolleyes:


Are you kidding me? So we take Lous contract then we have Theodore(NTC)??? Ya make's so much sense for us.

Wow this thread is just radiating future GM's.

Listen guys. If you're going to make offer's at least use your head's. Please.
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#106 "Bull" Horvat

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

]

Are you kidding me? So we take Lous contract then we have Theodore(NTC)??? Ya make's so much sense for us.

Wow this thread is just radiating future GM's.

Listen guys. If you're going to make offer's at least use your head's. Please.


Botch has already mentioned that the guy Gillis was waiting for is Theodore, waiting for Florida to deal him somewhere. & listening to today's interview with Bob McKenzie & Botchford, DT needs some time to analyze his team has his team was filled with injures. There's no rush lol

Edited by HowWeiseAreYou, 29 January 2013 - 11:02 AM.

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#107 Remy

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

Are you kidding me? So we take Lous contract then we have Theodore(NTC)??? Ya make's so much sense for us.

Wow this thread is just radiating future GM's.

Listen guys. If you're going to make offer's at least use your head's. Please.


Dear troll: please learn to use apostrophes appropriately.
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#108 TheFame

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

Dear troll: please learn to use apostrophes appropriately.


u mad hun?
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#109 TheFame

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:12 PM

]

Botch has already mentioned that the guy Gillis was waiting for is Theodore, waiting for Florida to deal him somewhere. & listening to today's interview with Bob McKenzie & Botchford, DT needs some time to analyze his team has his team was filled with injures. There's no rush lol


I don't care what they said. If we can't afford Weiss, how can we afford Luo? It doesn't make sense. If we can afford Luo, we can afford Weiss. We don't need to trade Weiss. It's simply not happening. We have bigger problem's than goal tending. It make's more sense for us to address our scoring problem, rather than our goalie's.
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#110 Raffi Torres's Smirk

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

If they truly were trying to clear money; there should be a way to get them to eat 1/2 Campbell's cap and ship him here.

Ballard and Lou for Campbell, Weiss and ??? (insert some variation on a pick) Campbell with the balance of our D instantly brings all tools to the table; we'd be cup favorites IMO.

Florida saves $25 mill in actual salary dollars on Weiss and Campbell.


Just imagine our D!!

Hamhuis with Bieksa
Garrison with Campell (!!)
Edler with Tanev (I think this would be good for Edler. Edler can focus on offense a bit more with a guy like Tanev to back him up)
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#111 Bodee

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

the only way we take Weiss is if they take Booth back. :)
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#112 fagin

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

the only way we take Weiss is if they take Booth back. :)

the only way we take Weiss is if they take Booth back. :)

...They would more likely want Kesler.We should probably consider this unless of course Weiss is also injury prone.

Edited by fagin, 29 January 2013 - 02:01 PM.

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#113 Spyderr

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:10 PM

If it can be lu and raymond (or Schroeder) for weiss and cap hit till end of year like theodore or something get it done

Sedin Sedin Burr
Kass Kes Booth
Higgins Weiss Hansen
Weise Lappy Volpatti

WOW
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Come on LU

#114 Renelsisc

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

Oveckin for Lu/Booth/Raymond haha..

Sedins - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Ovechkin
Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapierre - Weise

Damn...and then i wake up.
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#115 Edlerberry

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:21 AM

Are you kidding. I see Luongo heading to Montreal for Subban before heading to Washington.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#116 D-Money

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:36 AM

I don't care what they said. If we can't afford Weiss, how can we afford Luo? It doesn't make sense. If we can afford Luo, we can afford Weiss. We don't need to trade Weiss. It's simply not happening. We have bigger problem's than goal tending. It make's more sense for us to address our scoring problem, rather than our goalie's.


It's not a matter of the Panthers not being able to afford another contract. If that's the case, then they're in major financial trouble.

The fact is that going forward they don't want to have a guy making around 5 million per on a long-term deal who is essentially their 2nd or 3rd-line center. Huberdeau is obviously going to take over 1st line, and they have a couple other solid center prospects, one of which could very well end up a great 2nd C. Maybe a contending team that is spending to the cap has no problem spending that kind of dough on a depth player, but Florida is not one of those teams. They need to structure their team and contracts more conservatively. If they're paying a guy big money, he better be a bonafide 1st liner for them.

However, a star, franchise goaltender who is your 1st line of defense for 85% of the games, who sells tickets and jerseys and promotes your team around North America, is an entirely different story from a 2nd/3rd center. That is worth spending one of your few large contracts on, even for a budget team like Florida.
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#117 Edlerberry

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:38 AM

If it can be lu and raymond (or Schroeder) for weiss and cap hit till end of year like theodore or something get it done

Sedin Sedin Burr
Kass Kes Booth
Higgins Weiss Hansen
Weise Lappy Volpatti

WOW


Would probably have Weiss on a line with Kesler and Booth to give them a play maker.
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#118 elvis15

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

It's not a matter of the Panthers not being able to afford another contract. If that's the case, then they're in major financial trouble.

The fact is that going forward they don't want to have a guy making around 5 million per on a long-term deal who is essentially their 2nd or 3rd-line center. Huberdeau is obviously going to take over 1st line, and they have a couple other solid center prospects, one of which could very well end up a great 2nd C. Maybe a contending team that is spending to the cap has no problem spending that kind of dough on a depth player, but Florida is not one of those teams. They need to structure their team and contracts more conservatively. If they're paying a guy big money, he better be a bonafide 1st liner for them.

However, a star, franchise goaltender who is your 1st line of defense for 85% of the games, who sells tickets and jerseys and promotes your team around North America, is an entirely different story from a 2nd/3rd center. That is worth spending one of your few large contracts on, even for a budget team like Florida.

I agree it might not fit too well with their internal cap structure considering what Huberdeau is bound to make in the coming years. Grimaldi isn't so much of a lock at this point though, but with Bjugstad and Howden being fairly certain NHL'ers (just what level) and Matthias and Shore already in the roster I think they have room to take that chance.

They'd probably prefer to do it in a couple more years and keep a veteran presence down the middle other than just Goc, so I wonder if it might not be better for their team to keep him and move a center from their surplus of young players. If they did move Bjugstad to us for Luongo, they could keep Weiss (all assuming he wants to stay) and let Huberdeau develop, then bring along Grimaldi into a top 6 guy while having three options in Matthias, Shore and Howden to fill out as needed. That's pretty good center depth assuming they all turn out and less uncertainty than moving Weiss now and hoping you have enough to cover in the short term.

Certainly Weiss has been the face of their franchise for some time now, so you also have to consider that impact on the fan base as much as you do bringing back another favourite in Luongo. He's their active leader in games, goals (PP, SH and game winning), assists, points and shots, and their career leader in games, assists and points. The fans will certainly be able to latch on to the young stars as well, but there's value in keeping some continuity.

Edited by elvis15, 30 January 2013 - 01:36 PM.

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#119 D-Money

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:19 PM

Certainly Weiss has been the face of their franchise for some time now, so you also have to consider that impact on the fan base as much as you do bringing back another favourite in Luongo. He's their active leader in games, goals (PP, SH and game winning), assists, points and shots, and their career leader in games, assists and points. The fans will certainly be able to latch on to the young stars as well, but there's value in keeping some continuity.


I'm not in Florida, so I can't say for sure, but I don't think Weiss has ever been "the face of their franchise". It used to be Luongo, then probably Jokinen, Bouwmeester, Horton, Booth (sensing a pattern here). Weiss has always seemed more of a "2nd banana" - a very good player that the fans appreciate, but not necessarily the guy you put on billboards.

But even then, "face of the franchise" doesn't seem to mean much in Florida, as they have consistently been trading them off for a while. And they're all about the young guns coming up now.

Edited by D-Money, 30 January 2013 - 02:24 PM.

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#120 elvis15

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

I don't care what they said. If we can't afford Weiss, how can we afford Luo? It doesn't make sense. If we can afford Luo, we can afford Weiss. We don't need to trade Weiss. It's simply not happening. We have bigger problem's than goal tending. It make's more sense for us to address our scoring problem, rather than our goalie's.

Here's my thoughts on that. To score, you have to be able to play in the other end of the ice. For the other team to score, they have to play in your end more. I wondered from that how well Florida was doing at getting the puck out of their zone and creating chances in the offensive end.

You'd probably have good perspective on that having watched Florida's games, but I haven't really watched any of their games this year so I went to check their underlying stats. What I found was hardly compelling but did point to something as a consideration for the poor performance. It's all quick calculations from the player numbers so it may not be perfect but gives a good enough representation for my test.

Based on Corsi QoC (see the end of my post if you aren't familiar with what Corsi is), Florida is facing much harder quality of competition (4.05) versus Vancouver (-0.6). I wanted a third team who was doing well so far this year to compare to and Chicago has ties to both, and their quality of competition was surprisingly 3.77, so Chicago is winning in spite of that.

So why are the records the way they are? Chicago is losing out for on-ice Corsi overall (-1.45) but are still winning games while Vancouver is driving more Corsi events at 1.86 per 60 minutes yet not coming out further ahead. Florida has a whopping -13.08 Corsi, which is incredibly high so it tells us Florida players are giving up way more chances to the opposition than they are creating. Even if I take out their two worst players who are outliers (Tyson Strachan and Michael Caruso at -79.79 and -45.63 respectively!) you still have them at -7.64 overall and they have 4 players in the -20's (Ellerby, Kuba , Upshall and Weiss) and George Parros at -38.26(!). That's horrible but it's early in the season as well.

I went to look next at their O-zone start/finish rates, and Florida (48.9%/51.7%) was actually better than Chicago (47.4%/49.2%). Vancouver actually does pretty well in this stat year over year, being at 55.4% start rate in the O-zone and 61.2% finish rate so far this season. We start more shifts in the O-zone than in the neutral or defensive zone, and manage to finish a decent number more shifts there too.

PDO is a different stat (again, explanation at bottom), one some people don't really like, but it might give us a bit of a luck quotient to add to the equation. Florida has a PDO of 896. 896! That's almost more surprising than the on-ice Corsi results, and I'd consider Chicago's high at 1040 (+40 over the 1000 mark, versus -104 below for Florida). That means Florida is having horrible luck with their shots while not getting much help with saves. Chicago has had probably a bit of luck with both shots and saves which is due to drop just like their 6-0-0 record is going to even out over the season. The Canucks have dead even (1000) PDO so we haven't had much luck either good or bad.

So Florida is underperforming, and by a large margin, but how much is bad luck and how much is bad play? They'll improve from 1-5-0 just like Chicago will come back to earth from their 6 wins to open the season - but will it be enough without help to get them into the playoffs? I'd suggest it won't, not with Tampa playing better and tougher competition from Carolina this year, and a Luongo trade would help them if they don't take too much from key roster spots and get more help from their top players.

Corsi QoC (Quality of Competition): Average Corsi of opposing players, weighted by head-to-head ice time.
On-Ice Corsi: On-Ice Shot Differential (goals + saves + missed shots + blocks). This is expressed as a rate stat per 60 minutes.
PDO: the sum of "On-Ice Shooting Percentage" and "On-Ice Save Percentage" while a player was on the ice. It regresses very heavily to the mean in the long-run: a team or player well above 1000 has generally played in good luck and should expect to drop going forward and vice-versa.
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