Gurn Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: They are good but none are guaranteed NHL players. Pro tip- no draft pick is a guaranteed NHL player. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 minute ago, gurn said: Pro tip- no draft pick is a guaranteed NHL player. Yaya. That's obvious, anything is possible. Crosby was not a guaranteed NHL player theoretically. The point is that some prospects like Pettersson or Hughes are almost guaranteed to be NHL players before they made the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Hughes ? Which one? As you clarified, some picks are more likely to be NHL'ers, but no guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Quinn Hughes is the only defenseman on the roster that Benning has drafted. And please don't just list a bunch of prospects like that's proof that he's doing a good job of it. None of them are stud blue chip prospects. They are good but none are guaranteed NHL players. I don't really have a beef. I was just pointing out that I think it's not an accurate statement to say that since Benning was a defender he knows a lot about what it takes to be a defender in the NHL and therefore he's good at finding NHL level defensive talent. Ironically he's been much better at finding talent for the forward lineup. I didn't think it would be that controversial of an opinion since it seems pretty obvious looking at the defenders that have come and gone. Hughes OJ Try Breezer Forsling Rathbone Utanen All have good chances of hitting on NHL careers. Pretty much every dman he's picked in the top 5 rounds look solid 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Hughes OJ Try Breezer Forsling Rathbone Utanen All have good chances of hitting on NHL careers. Pretty much every dman he's picked in the top 5 rounds look solid One of those players is in the NHL. Having a good chance doesn't mean much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: One of those players is in the NHL. Having a good chance doesn't mean much. 6 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: One of those players is in the NHL. Having a good chance doesn't mean much. Hughes, Try, Forsling, Breezer have all had NHL time and have a much better than 50/50 chance at a good NHL career I also missed Woo on my original list 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, stawns said: Hughes, Try, Forsling, Breezer have all had NHL time and have a much better than 50/50 chance at a good NHL career I also missed Woo on my original list Sure. If you think one NHL player and bunch of guys that are hopeful to maybe have an NHL career in 5 years of drafting proves that Benning is good at finding defensive talent then fine. Agree to disagree. But really I was more alluding to his overall ability than his drafting. We've seen him target some fairly garbage defenders over the years. Anyway. Juolevi talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Sure. If you think one NHL player and bunch of guys that are hopeful to maybe have an NHL career in 5 years of drafting proves that Benning is good at finding defensive talent then fine. Agree to disagree. But really I was more alluding to his overall ability than his drafting. We've seen him target some fairly garbage defenders over the years. Anyway. Juolevi talk Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Sure. If you think one NHL player and bunch of guys that are hopeful to maybe have an NHL career in 5 years of drafting proves that Benning is good at finding defensive talent then fine. Agree to disagree. But really I was more alluding to his overall ability than his drafting. We've seen him target some fairly garbage defenders over the years. Anyway. Juolevi talk So, let me get this right. If Juolevi hadn't picked up two serious injuries since his draft season, you don't think he's an NHL defenseman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Sure. If you think one NHL player Two players, Hughes and Tryamkin who chose to leave the NHL for mother Russia. honorable mention to Forsling with 122 games in the NHL so far. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Maybe start a new thread at page 665? Kid don't need more bad luck! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Umbrus Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 hour ago, rekker said: Sorry but I don't see OJ replacing Eddy. Eddy is a phyiscal dman who in his prime could be trusted to go up against the other teams top lines and strong players. From what I've seen of OJ he is not engaged enough defensively to do this. He moves the puck real well and could replace what Eddy provided on the PP. I still hope OJ can improve his dzone engagement though as he is still young and working on his game. They are using him on the PK in Utica, and he's looking pretty good. A lot of his defensive miscues are due to him not being fully recovered and is getting his timing back. He has in my mind been getting better and better as each game passes down in Utica, which is a good sign. He may never be as physical as Edler, but if he can defend, keep the crease clear for the goalie, and be strong enough to win board battles he will fit the bill nicely. Laying guys out just isn't part of his game. At least from what I've seen so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said: They are using him on the PK in Utica, and he's looking pretty good. A lot of his defensive miscues are due to him not being fully recovered and is getting his timing back. He has in my mind been getting better and better as each game passes down in Utica, which is a good sign. He may never be as physical as Edler, but if he can defend, keep the crease clear for the goalie, and be strong enough to win board battles he will fit the bill nicely. Laying guys out just isn't part of his game. At least from what I've seen so far. Progression is good. Hoping for an injury free couple years so the young man can figure things out one way or another. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, johngould21 said: So, let me get this right. If Juolevi hadn't picked up two serious injuries since his draft season, you don't think he's an NHL defenseman? I don't think it's a guaranteed. People have short term memories around here and forget that red flags were going off with Juolevi's play in his D+1 in London. People forget him coming to camp and getting absolutely turnstyled and already showing some warning bells of his agility on his skates. I don't think it's 100% injuries that have caused Juolevi's problems with mobility and quickness as he was already showing some signs that it may be a problem before the injuries occured. I remember people using the excuse that he put on too much weight too quickly and he just needs to grow into his man size body. Now it's that he has had back and knee issues that are causing quickness and mobility issues. I've followed Juolevi closely since he was drafted and I'm not going to pretend it's all been roses and there hasn't been some warning signs right from the get go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: I don't think it's a guaranteed. People have short term memories around here and forget that red flags were going off with Juolevi's play in his D+1 in London. People forget him coming to camp and getting absolutely turnstyled and already showing some warning bells of his agility on his skates. I don't think it's 100% injuries that have caused Juolevi's problems with mobility and quickness as he was already showing some signs that it may be a problem before the injuries occured. I remember people using the excuse that he put on too much weight too quickly and he just needs to grow into his man size body. Now it's that he has had back and knee issues that are causing quickness and mobility issues. I've followed Juolevi closely since he was drafted and I'm not going to pretend it's all been roses and there hasn't been some warning signs right from the get go. This is an honest assessment and a good one IMHO. At this point I am expecting a bust but hoping I'm wrong. I hope the young man stays healthy and becomes a legit NHL dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 2 hours ago, stawns said: Such as? Gudbranson, Sbisa, Pouliot, Clendenning, Pedan, Larsen, Bartakowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elias Pettersson Posted December 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Quinn Hughes is the only defenseman on the roster that Benning has drafted. And please don't just list a bunch of prospects like that's proof that he's doing a good job of it. None of them are stud blue chip prospects. They are good but none are guaranteed NHL players. I don't really have a beef. I was just pointing out that I think it's not an accurate statement to say that since Benning was a defender he knows a lot about what it takes to be a defender in the NHL and therefore he's good at finding NHL level defensive talent. Ironically he's been much better at finding talent for the forward lineup. I didn't think it would be that controversial of an opinion since it seems pretty obvious looking at the defenders that have come and gone. Yes this is true. But you forgot to point out the reason why. The reason why is because in 6 years of drafting Benning has had 7 1st round picks, and out of those 7 picks 5 have been forwards. Also, in 6 years he has had 5 2nd round picks where he has selected an additional 3 forwards, 1 defenceman and 1 goalie. So in total he has had 12 picks in the first two rounds, and 8 of those have been forwards and only 3 have been defencemen. So obviously it is logical to see that more of his forwards have made the jump to the big club considering he has only drafted 3 defenceman in the first two rounds in the last 6 years while drafting 8 forwards. And of those 3 defencemen drafted in the first 2 rounds, one is a complete stud, perhaps a Calder trophy winner and Norris trophy winner at some point, another one would be playing in the NHL right now if it weren't for his 2 serious injuries and the 3rd one is still playing in the CHL. The reason the others aren't playing in the NHL is because all of the other Dmen Benning has drafted were later round picks that take years to develop. However, out of those later picks 3 have actually already played in the NHL, Nikita Tryamkin, Gustav Forsling and Guillaume Brisebois. Tryamkin would still be in the NHL today if he didn't leave and go to Russia. 2 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes this is true. But you forgot to point out the reason why. The reason why is because in 6 years of drafting Benning has had 7 1st round picks, and out of those 7 picks 5 have been forwards. Also, in 6 years he has had 5 2nd round picks where he has selected an additional 3 forwards, 1 defenceman and 1 goalie. So in total he has had 12 picks in the first two rounds, and 8 of those have been forwards and only 3 have been defencemen. So obviously it is logical to see that more of his forwards have made the jump to the big club considering he has only drafted 3 defenceman in the first two rounds in the last 6 years while drafting 8 forwards. And of those 3 defencemen drafted in the first 2 rounds, one is a complete stud, perhaps a Calder trophy winner and Norris trophy winner at some point, another one would be playing in the NHL right now if it weren't for his 2 serious injuries and the 3rd one is still playing in the CHL. The reason the others aren't playing in the NHL is because all of the other Dmen Benning has drafted were later round picks that take years to develop. However, out of those later picks 3 have actually already played in the NHL, Nikita Tryamkin, Gustav Forsling and Guillaume Brisebois. Tryamkin would still be in the NHL today if he didn't leave and go to Russia. That's no guarantee. I just addressed this a post above. When I first made the point I was more alluding to his pro scouting and evaluation of defensive talent overall rather than just drafting. I'll agree he hasn't made enough draft picks of defenders to really decide either way and because quite a few are still developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: That's no guarantee. I just addressed this a post above. When I first made the point I was more alluding to his pro scouting and evaluation of defensive talent overall rather than just drafting. I'll agree he hasn't made enough draft picks of defenders to really decide either way and because quite a few are still developing. Juolevi would be in the NHL today if not for the injuries. C'mon you can't really believe otherwise can you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckledraggin Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 On 12/28/2019 at 1:19 PM, Fred65 said: Some one once suggested to me that the difference between US Sports fan is they cheer to encourage while Canadians cheers to acknowledge an achievement. Well …… there has to be a lot of US fans on this site. I'm definitely in the Cdn pack. Show me some thing and I'll cheer but until that moment I prefer to be neutral. Basically that's difference IMO between the two positions being argued on the board. I don't think it's my job to cheerlead I think it's up to OJ to show us. The posters that come on here and give a game report, I'd like to thank That's an odd generalization and as a Canadian I can tell you it makes no sense. I will always offer maximum support and always give these young men the benefit of developing at their own pace. Some of these kids can barely grow facial hair yet. You most certainly are not taking a neutral stance, you are increasingly coming to these prospect threads and leaving hot steaming turds wherever you go. This thread is going to end up the same way the Virtanen thread did. It's going to end up over 1000 pages before he makes the NHL and has an impact in any substantial way. Meanwhile there will be people claiming that he will never live up to his draft position, and will critique every game and sometimes every shift to try to justify their position, while claiming to be "realists". I'm more of a lurker in the prospects forum, because it's more time than I have to follow all these guys individually, so I do agree with your last sentence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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