[Trade] Panthers trade F Dave Bolland and F Lawson Crouse to Arizona

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Gudbranson is not better than Larsson. Just stop. All you need to do is look at the return for both players to see how they are viewed by GM's.

So you're going to base a player's talent and ability purely on what a general manager sent the other way? That is beyond ridiculous.

 

Benning and Chiarelli had different needs and traded the players at different times in reference to the season.

[Warhippy]

28 minutes ago, Bigturk8 said:

I agree with most of your post, but the bolded section is debatable.

I would say our D is largely the same. Gudbranson should fill Hammers void and until proven otherwise, I see Larsen in the same light as Weber from last season. Personally, I think our D will be better because I expect Tryamkin to exceed some expectations this season, but that's not concrete and therefor I won't use it for my current assessment.

I would; However, say that our forward group is stronger, specifically the top 6.

Last season:
Sedin - Sedin - Hansen
Baertschi - Sutter - Vrbata

This season:
Sedin - Sedin - Eriksson
Baertschi - Sutter - Hansen

I would argue that Hansen will actually give us better production on the second line than Vrbata did, and Eriksson is an upgrade on Hansen on that first line. It's not a massive improvement, but I do see it as an improvement none the less.
 

I actually see Eriksson being on the 2nd line by and large this season depending on the first 20 games.  Hansen produces with the twins, Eriksson being a solid 2 way forward shores up the tire fire that was the 2nd line in terms of coverage

[Warhippy]

28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

You have to joking.  Seriously hippy you're not going to drop to that level are you?

 

Hanzal is a better #1 center because he's a cheap shot?  Because Domi and Duclair are faster they are better than the twins? 

Strome hasn't even played a game in the NHL and he's going to be better #2 C in his rookie year? Good Luck with that.

 

Chychrun isn't even past the OHL level, he's got way more to learn at that level before he makes and Impact in the NHL.  Prospect pool doesn't help them this year,  not in making a playoff hunt.

 

So because Smith is fighting for his career means Miller isn't?  It means it's going to turn into the Smith of the past.

 

Everything you said about the coyotes is hope. 

You hope Domi improves off a 50 point season, 

You hope Duclair improves off a 40 point season. 

You hope strome can come into the NHL smooth and be an impact in his rookie year, 

You a.hope Smith turns back time and plays lights out. 

You hope Chychrun not only make the NHL, but he's a impact D.

 

And everything about canucks is assuming the worst.

You assume Hank and Danny aren't 60-70 point players, 

You assume Rodin will suck

You assume sutter healthy wont make an impact

You assume Guddy doesn't make our D deeper and much better.

 

Seems a little bias reasoning here.  All your logic used, is at best 2nd grade level.  Even Apollo has giving better reasoning before.  I'm disappointed that would even post such garbage and state it as fact. 

LMAO reaching this morning bud?

 

NOWHERE did I say Hanzal is a better #1 center.

 

Strome IS arguably a better center than Sutter.  Sutter is not an offensively gifted center, Strome is.  Regardless of whether or not this is his first year in the league he puts up better points based off of his passing alone where Sutter is a shooting center.  Something numerous people have keyed in to.  Centers are there for more than 2 way play and assists are kind of important

 

Chychrun is an NHL ready body, someone most here had penciled in to the NHL should we have picked him.  Funny how even you did at one point in the past but now he's not NHL ready.  He's STILL an available call up, as for their deep prospect pool.  It's depth, SKILLED depth, something we don't have and something that is very important and something we lack still.  Prospects might not help full time this year but they're available when needed.  We don't have that luxury

 

Smith has had 2 bad years in a row and now has a solid looking defense in front of him on a Tippett led squad.  It's a defense similar to the one they had going to the conference finals.  Sure Miller might be fighting for the contract but he's also going to be fighting for playing time where Smith; if he's healthy wont be.  Better defense leads to better goaltending and adding Gudbranson for Hamhuis doesn't make us necessarily better as they're very similar D men

 

As for the rest let's shake it down objectively here.

 

I am hoping for the Yotes yet assuming the worst for the Nucks?  Isn't that what you and others are doing for the nucks yet hoping for every other team in the division?  You're assuming Larsen and Rodin will come in and do well.  Gudbranson won't suffer moving to the west, Eriksson will slot in seamlessly etc etc etc.  Gudbranson doesn't make us deeper, had we kept Hamhuis yes.  But no, it's like trading 1 for 1 who is younger.

 

All your logic is at best 2nd grade level champ.  You're hoping for the best yet assuming the worst for everyone else.  We DID NOT improve drastically at all.  We did NOT get deeper.  We did NOT get more skilled.

 

Eriksson-Vrbata.

Hamhuis-Gudbranson

Rodin-McCaan/Virtanen

Larsen-Weber/Bartkowski

 

That's a wash alla round, and before you say bbbut Vrbata was a non factor last year, so what he scored mroe than 30 for us the season before and pouted when he didn't get his way

 

Don't piss on my logic while whitewashing your own argument

 

Bottom line is we maybe took a step forward while our entire division 's bottom feeders shored up what almost EVERY analyst said was their weaknesses

 

I'm disappointed you refuse to see simple logic and facts and instead want to be "that guy"  which is fine.  But don't dump on me because you don't like facts.  Because I'll take my 2nd grade logic over 5 year old beliefs in miracles any day of the week

[TheRussianRocket.]

dp

[TheRussianRocket.]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

Crouse is overrated.  Looked really good as a 17 years old, but seems like he hasn't progressed since.  Getting rid of Bolland will be huge for Florida in a year or two.

Good deal for both sides.

 

Will allow Panthers to have a lot more cap flexibility to win now while Yotes get a once highly touted prospect to join their rebuild and hopefully turn things around.

[missioncanucksfan]

2 hours ago, timberz21 said:

They are bringing Aaron Ekblad at 7.5M next year instead of 925k.  And Reilly Smith is getting a 1.6M raise also.  Petrovic and Pysyk will also be RFA.

 

This is a move for the next two year for Florida, not this year.

They need to sign Huberdeau

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yikes!  Costly move to dump Bolland's crappy contract.

 

[Putgolzin]

Crouse was drafted in 2015, so that means he's junior or NHL again right?

And if he's not in the NHL the 2nd turns into a 3rd?

What a deal.

[PhillipBlunt]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

LMAO reaching this morning bud?

 

NOWHERE did I say Hanzal is a better #1 center.

 

Strome IS arguably a better center than Sutter.  Sutter is not an offensively gifted center, Strome is.  Regardless of whether or not this is his first year in the league he puts up better points based off of his passing alone where Sutter is a shooting center.  Something numerous people have keyed in to.  Centers are there for more than 2 way play and assists are kind of important

 

Chychrun is an NHL ready body, someone most here had penciled in to the NHL should we have picked him.  Funny how even you did at one point in the past but now he's not NHL ready.  He's STILL an available call up, as for their deep prospect pool.  It's depth, SKILLED depth, something we don't have and something that is very important and something we lack still.  Prospects might not help full time this year but they're available when needed.  We don't have that luxury

 

Smith has had 2 bad years in a row and now has a solid looking defense in front of him on a Tippett led squad.  It's a defense similar to the one they had going to the conference finals.  Sure Miller might be fighting for the contract but he's also going to be fighting for playing time where Smith; if he's healthy wont be.  Better defense leads to better goaltending and adding Gudbranson for Hamhuis doesn't make us necessarily better as they're very similar D men

 

As for the rest let's shake it down objectively here.

 

I am hoping for the Yotes yet assuming the worst for the Nucks?  Isn't that what you and others are doing for the nucks yet hoping for every other team in the division?  You're assuming Larsen and Rodin will come in and do well.  Gudbranson won't suffer moving to the west, Eriksson will slot in seamlessly etc etc etc.  Gudbranson doesn't make us deeper, had we kept Hamhuis yes.  But no, it's like trading 1 for 1 who is younger.

 

All your logic is at best 2nd grade level champ.  You're hoping for the best yet assuming the worst for everyone else.  We DID NOT improve drastically at all.  We did NOT get deeper.  We did NOT get more skilled.

 

Eriksson-Vrbata.

Hamhuis-Gudbranson

Rodin-McCaan/Virtanen

Larsen-Weber/Bartkowski

 

That's a wash alla round, and before you say bbbut Vrbata was a non factor last year, so what he scored mroe than 30 for us the season before and pouted when he didn't get his way

 

Don't piss on my logic while whitewashing your own argument

 

Bottom line is we maybe took a step forward while our entire division 's bottom feeders shored up what almost EVERY analyst said was their weaknesses

 

I'm disappointed you refuse to see simple logic and facts and instead want to be "that guy"  which is fine.  But don't dump on me because you don't like facts.  Because I'll take my 2nd grade logic over 5 year old beliefs in miracles any day of the week

Sorry Hippy, but in what world is a 24 year old, 6'5" 220 lb. defenseman a straight across wash to a 34, 6'1" 205 lb. defenseman?

 

Yes, both are stay at home defensive defensemen, but Gudbranson is just as mobile, and just as responsible a player. He's also a decade younger, and a far more impactful and imposing presence on the ice, which the Canucks have sorely lacked on the back end for years.

[Brad Marchand]

Is it possible to debate anything on the internet without resorting to childish insults? Probably not, from the looks of it.

 

Amazing the Panthers even signed Bolland to that contract in the first place. They're damn lucky that Arizona is a black hole for dead cap.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Sorry Hippy, but in what world is a 24 year old, 6'5" 220 lb. defenseman a straight across wash to a 34, 6'1" 205 lb. defenseman?

 

Yes, both are stay at home defensive defensemen, but Gudbranson is just as mobile, and just as responsible a player. He's also a decade younger, and a far more impactful and imposing presence on the ice, which the Canucks have sorely lacked on the back end for years.

You take 3 inches and 15 pounds off skip the years and they're mirror images of each other on the ice.  You trade a weber for a weber and say you got better and it doesn't fly.

 

Gudbranson has a high ceiling ahead of him no doubt, but claiming we're somehow deeper or better by swapping a 1-1 set of D men with VERY similar skill sets and offensive ability isn't making it factual.  Results will

[ForsbergTheGreat]

28 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

LMAO reaching this morning bud?

 

NOWHERE did I say Hanzal is a better #1 center.

 

Are we not comparing first lines???

Quote

Strome IS arguably a better center than Sutter.  Sutter is not an offensively gifted center, Strome is.  Regardless of whether or not this is his first year in the league he puts up better points based off of his passing alone where Sutter is a shooting center.  Something numerous people have keyed in to.  Centers are there for more than 2 way play and assists are kind of important

Let the guy play a game in the NHL before you praise him as a #2 center.  Didn't you just say in the other thread that people get caught up too much in potential.  Very few players can step into the NHL in their rookie season and make strong impacts.  Barkov, Draisaitl, Drouin, LIndholm, Galcheyuk have all struggled in their first season.  It takes a long time to get accustomed to the NHL level. 

 

Quote

Chychrun is an NHL ready body, someone most here had penciled in to the NHL should we have picked him.  Funny how even you did at one point in the past but now he's not NHL ready.  He's STILL an available call up, as for their deep prospect pool.

Chychrun is physically developed but mentally he's no where close. His positioning at the OHL level is terrible, how is he going to be a impact player in the NHL level.  I'm currious though (i really don't know the answer) who is the last D drafted out of the top 15 to make the NHL immediately following his draft year....and make an impact?

 

Quote

 It's depth, SKILLED depth, something we don't have and something that is very important and something we lack still.  Prospects might not help full time this year but they're available when needed.  We don't have that luxury

 

We've added NHL depth, last year we tried rookie depth and it didn't work out so well.

 

Quote

Smith has had 2 bad years in a row and now has a solid looking defense in front of him on a Tippett led squad.  It's a defense similar to the one they had going to the conference finals.  Sure Miller might be fighting for the contract but he's also going to be fighting for playing time where Smith; if he's healthy wont be.  Better defense leads to better goaltending and adding Gudbranson for Hamhuis doesn't make us necessarily better as they're very similar D men

Smith is just aging fast and his relexes are slowing down, Injuries and speed due to age it effecting his game.  Domingue will likely split games with him for this year.  Again though, what you stated isn't fact, it your opinion based on HOPE, hope that he will be better

Quote

As for the rest let's shake it down objectively here.

 

I am hoping for the Yotes yet assuming the worst for the Nucks?  Isn't that what you and others are doing for the nucks yet hoping for every other team in the division?  You're assuming Larsen and Rodin will come in and do well.  Gudbranson won't suffer moving to the west, Eriksson will slot in seamlessly etc etc etc.

I atleast have last years play and stats to back up my claims on guddy and eriksson, You're basing your hope on nothing but opinion.

 

Quote

 Gudbranson doesn't make us deeper, had we kept Hamhuis yes.  But no, it's like trading 1 for 1 who is younger.

Hutton old, Tryamkin, healthy edler and Sbisa make us deeper.  Last year Beiga was a top 4 d. this year he's starting in the AHL.  That's called depth. 

 

Quote

All your logic is at best 2nd grade level champ.  You're hoping for the best yet assuming the worst for everyone else.  We DID NOT improve drastically at all.  We did NOT get deeper.  We did NOT get more skilled.

 

Again what numbers are you basing your opinion off. I atleast can go off of previous year history.  You're living in fairlytail land assuming Duclair out preforms the twins based of what?  Potential or your mood of the day..  All your claims have nothing to standing on, it just your opinion and hope for how the players turn out and it's a pretty poor opinion TBH.

 

I want to put this into perspective on how people rate other teams prospects at a much higher level than they rank our own.

 

Last year was a break out year for Duclair where he put up 20 goals and 44 points. People view Duclair as a first line winger who will be better than a Sedin next season.

 

Duclair and Horvat are born 4 months apart,  Last year was also a bit of a break out year for Horvat after a slow start where he ended up with 16 goals and 40 points.  By the same logic, Horvat next year should also be better than the twins..But for some reason because he's a canucks prospect he won't get any better, while duclair will reach stardom.

 

Quote

 

That's a wash alla round, and before you say bbbut Vrbata was a non factor last year, so what he scored mroe than 30 for us the season before and pouted when he didn't get his way

 

Don't piss on my logic while whitewashing your own argument

 

Bottom line is we maybe took a step forward while our entire division 's bottom feeders shored up what almost EVERY analyst said was their weaknesses

 

I'm disappointed you refuse to see simple logic and facts and instead want to be "that guy"  which is fine.  But don't dump on me because you don't like facts.  Because I'll take my 2nd grade logic over 5 year old beliefs in miracles any day of the week

Man 5 year olds sure know how to use stats and previous year history to come up with their logic now a days. It's funny that you got nothing to stand on but beliefs in miracles and nothing to back it up but call me out on that.  Quite pathetic that you can't see that.  You keep living in dream land where canucks are a terrible team. It's funny you've been saying that since the 2014-15 season prediction thread. seems like you just like living in negative land and believe the world is out to get you.. I'll leave you to it. 

[Rey]

Many people projected Crouse to bust and not live up to the 11th overall pick anyways. His body matured early, which was why he was able to play at the WJR as such a early age but had questionable offensive game that hasn't developed yet. He'll still be good enough for a 3rd/4th line grinder though, but don't just look at him as the 11th overall pick. Look, Florida has done very well in the scouting and development in the past few years with Dale Tallon. If they thought they had something in Crouse, It's simple, they wouldn't have traded him. 

[KKnight]

I personally think and i think most will agree. The way the Coyotes are being run right now, they will either be very mediocre in the future or reallllyyyy bad. Just a gut feeling. I think their GM is in way over his head. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

You take 3 inches and 15 pounds off skip the years and they're mirror images of each other on the ice.  You trade a weber for a weber and say you got better and it doesn't fly.

 

Gudbranson has a high ceiling ahead of him no doubt, but claiming we're somehow deeper or better by swapping a 1-1 set of D men with VERY similar skill sets and offensive ability isn't making it factual.  Results will

But those differences do exist. Gudbranson is a far greater physical force. So if you take Hamhuis' excellent stay at home defensive acumen and combine it with a massive frame and willingness to use it, you do get better.

 

That does wonders for the Canucks reputation for being mentally fragile. All teams had to do before was rough up a couple of players, see no response from the team, and rinse and repeat. Now, I can't wait to see how that tactic plays out.

 

The Canucks do have enough players in the minors that are capable of slotting in somewhat effectively on the blueline now. And they boast a healthy amount of skill and speed, and in Pedan's case, size to go with his speed (north/south).

[iinatcc]

Looks like this Lawson Crouse is a bust

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Seriously hippy. When it comes to the Canucks with you it's always the sky is falling.  Every move every other teams make is a game changing genius move that hurts Canucks chances.  Every move the Canucks make is the worst and we're screwed. Sure it's your opinion but it's always with a negative bias. Is there any joy in being a Canucks fan. Why even bother? unless you get fulfillment from self pity. 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Arizona gets a good prospect in exchange for taking a locker room cancer and cap dump in Bolland.  Going to be tough to make sure Bolland and Vrbata don't teach the youngsters their bad habits.

How is Bolland a locker room cancer? Because he made fun of the Sedins once during a heated playoff series? Overpaid? yes, locker room cancer? Doubt it...

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Are we not comparing first lines???

Let the guy play a game in the NHL before you praise him as a #2 center.  Didn't you just say in the other thread that people get caught up too much in potential.  Very few players can step into the NHL in their rookie season and make strong impacts.  Barkov, Draisaitl, Drouin, LIndholm, Galcheyuk have all struggled in their first season.  It takes a long time to get accustomed to the NHL level. 

 

Chychrun is physically developed but mentally he's no where close. His positioning at the OHL level is terrible, how is he going to be a impact player in the NHL level.  I'm currious though (i really don't know the answer) who is the last D drafted out of the top 15 to make the NHL immediately following his draft year....and make an impact?

 

 

We've added NHL depth, last year we tried rookie depth and it didn't work out so well.

 

Smith is just aging fast and his relexes are slowing down, Injuries and speed due to age it effecting his game.  Domingue will likely split games with him for this year.  Again though, what you stated isn't fact, it your opinion based on HOPE, hope that he will be better

I atleast have last years play and stats to back up my claims on guddy and eriksson, You're basing your hope on nothing but opinion.

 

Hutton old, Tryamkin, healthy edler and Sbisa make us deeper.  Last year Beiga was a top 4 d. this year he's starting in the AHL.  That's called depth. 

 

Again what numbers are you basing your opinion off. I atleast can go off of previous year history.  You're living in fairlytail land assuming Duclair out preforms the twins based of what?  Potential or your mood of the day..  All your claims have nothing to standing on, it just your opinion and hope for how the players turn out and it's a pretty poor opinion TBH.

 

I want to put this into perspective on how people rate other teams prospects at a much higher level than they rank our own.

 

Last year was a break out year for Duclair where he put up 20 goals and 44 points. People view Duclair as a first line winger who will be better than a Sedin next season.

 

Duclair and Horvat are born 4 months apart,  Last year was also a bit of a break out year for Horvat after a slow start where he ended up with 16 goals and 40 points.  By the same logic, Horvat next year should also be better than the twins..But for some reason because he's a canucks prospect he won't get any better, while duclair will reach stardom.

 

Man 5 year olds sure know how to use stats and previous year history to come up with their logic now a days. It's funny that you got nothing to stand on but beliefs in miracles and nothing to back it up but call me out on that.  Quite pathetic that you can't see that.  You keep living in dream land where canucks are a terrible team. It's funny you've been saying that since the 2013-14 season prediction thread. seems like you just like living in negative land and believe the world is out to get you.. I'll leave you to it. 

You're using 1 year, 1 single year.  And basing your entire argument off of that.  Did Vrbata suddenly enter the league only last year?  Bolland? Goligoski?

 

Go back a few more and come back.

 

Arizona's 1st line is capable of 40-55 points a person.

2nd line 35-45 points a person

3rd line 27-35 points a person

4th line who cares it's a wash

 

Defense now has 3 guys capable of 30+ point seasons, 2 guys shoe ins for 20+ point seasons.  While being far more mobile than us.

 

We lost 124 points last year in Vrbata (an average 47 point player barring last year and the lockout), Vey, Bartkowski, McCaan, Cracknell, Weber, Higgins, Hamhuis and possibly Virtanen and replaced that with Gudbranson, Eriksson (who had his best season since 2011-2012 last year).  While that doesn't seem like a ton of points between 8 players, we didn't score a ton of points at all last year now did we?

 

Basing all of this on the hopes of the division being bad while we somehow magically aren't with such vast roster sweeping improvements is not happening.  I am standing at 12th overall in the west.  My prediction like last year is locked in and early with 0 reservation needed.

 

I HAVE been saying the canucks are a sub par team since 2013.  Remind me, barring 1 single dead cat bounce year after Torts how I was wrong. 

 

You're putting a lot of words in my mouth, you're inventing things that i didn't factually say and you're ignoring all of the strides made by other teams in the division while claiming ours will somehow propel us ahead of them.  Which isn't known yet nor does it appear to be possible barring some sort of hockey luck

 

The only thing that is pathetic here is this forums complete unwillingness to give ANY other team in the league or division credit and optimism for their upcoming season.  You can argue all you want man it's fine.  That's why it's a forum..  

 

This is a good deal for Arizona, they have a bright future ahead of them.  Bolland will be a solid addition to what was an absolute joke of a bottom 6 last year and I have the Yotes finishing ahead of us again this year.

 

 

[D-Money]

23 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Sorry Hippy, but in what world is a 24 year old, 6'5" 220 lb. defenseman a straight across wash to a 34, 6'1" 205 lb. defenseman?

 

Yes, both are stay at home defensive defensemen, but Gudbranson is just as mobile, and just as responsible a player. He's also a decade younger, and a far more impactful and imposing presence on the ice, which the Canucks have sorely lacked on the back end for years.

Kind of silly to state it like that. Jared Cowen is 25 and even bigger - do you consider him better than Hamhuis? How about Justin Falk (not Faulk)?