Tankards TOAST to the 2017/18 Season !

[Nuxfanabroad]

Wanted to chime in on what appears a dismal wk, for us diehards with the Nucklehead-blues.

 

Call it denial, but I believe Tram will make his way back here in 2 yrs. Pull a Sobotka(St Loo scenario). Young guy, who just got hitched with that little sweetheart. He needs to make some serious coin(low taxes) for a bit. Also knows our team will suck for a yr or two more.

 

So it's a good time to deal our remaining talent, & simply tank hard. Trades like Tanev & Edler. Take back dog-contracts(to enhance trade-return), and/or sign mediocre FA's to slightly higher, short-term deals. In short, the time is NOW to take the pain. We must go into next season with the sole intention of falling like a brick. Give our other young D's plenty of opportunity to likely sink, whilst trying to swim. Pedan, Subban, McEneny..give 'em all 20~40 games, at least. I'd even strongly consider holding back OJ one more season, from what should be an ugly one.

 

Brace Yourselves For Media-Slagging:

 

When the Leafs tanked blatantly, the media shrugged, explained it away, and/or laughed it off. That market's a cash-cow for the league, so everyone treated them with kid gloves. We'd better expect the exact opposite..a sort of incessantly trolling, corporate media, pile-on. Team & fans will probably need some thick skin.

 

Better pay Bo good $$$, & lock him up for a lengthy term. Gonna be a tough coupla yrs. Reward the kid with full-commitment, since he'll have to bear the brunt until this team turns a corner.

 

Lastly, if we're gonna be lousy, at LEAST let's get tougher. Prioritize adding toughness when it's possible. No dirty punks, but honest grinders who play a heavy game. Try to develop a speedy, 'pack-mentality' amongst the youth.

 

********************************************************:                                          ********************************************************************

 

This thread's open to any/all opinions & input. My general suggestion is we should dive-bomb next season, like a kamikaze pilot, with one's country in flames. If in agreement, please contribute initiatives that may contribute to a hearty crash...

 

I raise my(half full) tankard to all..SALUT! :^)

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

 

I'll drink to that

[kingofsurrey]

[Nuxfanabroad]

^That the bottom or the Top?

[aGENT]

I'll never be on board with a full tank but I'd be happy to keep most of our kids away from what is bound to be a bit of  tire fire. Even if we put the best team we can out there with the best kids we have and remain relatively healthy, we're at best, a 10-15 picking team.

 

Keep as many prospects in Utica as we can IMO let them fill in for trades/injuries.

 

Baer, Horvat, Eriksson

Sedin, Sedin, Granlund

2way prospect/UFA, Sutter, Dorsett (match up d zone line)

Rodin, UFA, Boucher (sheltered ozone line)

 

Trade Edler and Tanev

 

Hutton, Gudbranson

Sbisa, Stecher

 

Pedan/ McEneny/Biega/UFA(s) fill out bottom 4 (maybe Juolevi especially as he can't go to Utica, but ONLY if he's ready).

 

At the TDL trade off a couple of the UFA's we signed for picks/prospects and perhaps one/both of Boucher/Rodin and call up a few of the better performing kids.

 

Draft high again next year, bring some kids in to fill top 6 holes left from Sedins.

 

[J-Dizzle]

8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I'll never be on board with a full tank but I'd be happy to keep most of our kids away from what is bound to be a bit of  tire fire. Even if we put the best team we can out there with the best kids we have and remain relatively healthy, we're at best, a 10-15 picking team.

 

Keep as many prospects in Utica as we can IMO let them fill in for trades/injuries.

 

Baer, Horvat, Eriksson

Sedin, Sedin, Granlund

2way prospect/UFA, Sutter, Dorsett (match up d zone line)

Rodin, UFA, Boucher (sheltered ozone line)

 

Trade Edler and Tanev

 

Hutton, Gudbranson

Sbisa, Stecher

 

Pedan/ McEneny/Biega/UFA(s) fill out bottom 4 (maybe Juolevi especially as he can't go to Utica, but ONLY if he's ready).

 

At the TDL trade off a couple of the UFA's we signed for picks/prospects and perhaps one/both of Boucher/Rodin and call up a few of the better performing kids.

 

Draft high again next year, bring some kids in to fill top 6 holes left from Sedins.

 

I have a feeling if we land a top two pick we see them in the line up next year whether they should be there or not...

I like Loui on the wing with Horvat and Baer.  Can we really keep Boesser out if he comes into camp looking good (especially after showing the goal scoring prowess he did at the end of this year)? 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

I have a feeling if we land a top two pick we see them in the line up next year whether they should be there or not...

I like Loui on the wing with Horvat and Baer.  Can we really keep Boesser out if he comes into camp looking good (especially after showing the goal scoring prowess he did at the end of this year)? 

Boeser especially, would be tough.

 

Like I said, this is what I'd like to do, not what I actually see the team doing.

[appleboy]

Do you think management is sitting in the back room discussing how to end up 31st.

Maybe Tryamkin was a threat to a proper tank so they suggested he goes home for a year and maybe get a shot at the Olympics.

 

I am all in on the rebuild , call it what you want. I think they should be looking to acquire assets for any player that is not forecast to be here five years down the road.

 

Tanev ,Edler, Sutter , Sbisa , Guddy , Markstrom and LE. Maybe not all this year but over the next two seasons. Youth and speed mixed with some grit is what it takes to win now. The Black Hawks looked like us in 2012, 2013. Lets see what they will do? They have 21 mil tied up in two players who looked tired at 28 years old. Both locked up until they are 35.

Teams should never give out huge long term deals anymore. Once a player hits 28 they should be looking to move them out for young assets. Contracts should never go past 32 years old. After that do short term deals..

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, appleboy said:

Do you think management is sitting in the back room discussing how to end up 31st.

Maybe Tryamkin was a threat to a proper tank so they suggested he goes home for a year and maybe get a shot at the Olympics.

 

I am all in on the rebuild , call it what you want. I think they should be looking to acquire assets for any player that is not forecast to be here five years down the road.

 

Tanev ,Edler, Sutter , Sbisa , Guddy , Markstrom and LE. Maybe not all this year but over the next two seasons. Youth and speed mixed with some grit is what it takes to win now. The Black Hawks looked like us in 2012, 2013. Lets see what they will do? They have 21 mil tied up in two players who looked tired at 28 years old. Both locked up until they are 35.

Teams should never give out huge long term deals anymore. Once a player hits 28 they should be looking to move them out for young assets. Contracts should never go past 32 years old. After that do short term deals..

Agree 100 %.

 

club should reload every few years....   keep a young roster  with no country club  / retirement home contracts.

[iceman64]

Just now, J.R. said:

I'll never be on board with a full tank but I'd be happy to keep most of our kids away from what is bound to be a bit of  tire fire. Even if we put the best team we can out there with the best kids we have and remain relatively healthy, we're at best, a 10-15 picking team.

 

Keep as many prospects in Utica as we can IMO let them fill in for trades/injuries.

Just now, Nuxfanabroad said:

Wanted to chime in on what appears a dismal wk, for us diehards with the Nucklehead-blues.

 

Call it denial, but I believe Tram will make his way back here in 2 yrs. Pull a Sobotka(St Loo scenario). Young guy, who just got hitched with that little sweetheart. He needs to make some serious coin(low taxes) for a bit. Also knows our team will suck for a yr or two more.

 

So it's a good time to deal our remaining talent, & simply tank hard. Trades like Tanev & Edler. Take back dog-contracts(to enhance trade-return), and/or sign mediocre FA's to slightly higher, short-term deals. In short, the time is NOW to take the pain. We must go into next season with the sole intention of falling like a brick. Give our other young D's plenty of opportunity to likely sink, whilst trying to swim. Pedan, Subban, McEneny..give 'em all 20~40 games, at least. I'd even strongly consider holding back OJ one more season, from what should be an ugly one.

 

Brace Yourselves For Media-Slagging:

 

When the Leafs tanked blatantly, the media shrugged, explained it away, and/or laughed it off. That market's a cash-cow for the league, so everyone treated them with kid gloves. We'd better expect the exact opposite..a sort of incessantly trolling, corporate media, pile-on. Team & fans will probably need some thick skin.

 

Better pay Bo good $$$, & lock him up for a lengthy term. Gonna be a tough coupla yrs. Reward the kid with full-commitment, since he'll have to bear the brunt until this team turns a corner.

 

Lastly, if we're gonna be lousy, at LEAST let's get tougher. Prioritize adding toughness when it's possible. No dirty punks, but honest grinders who play a heavy game. Try to develop a speedy, 'pack-mentality' amongst the youth.

 

********************************************************:                                          ********************************************************************

 

This thread's open to any/all opinions & input. My general suggestion is we should dive-bomb next season, like a kamikaze pilot, with one's country in flames. If in agreement, please contribute initiatives that may contribute to a hearty crash...

 

I raise my(half full) tankard to all..SALUT! :^)

A

 

 

And another year of getting kicked around hard if team toughness as stated, is ummm "lacking" and with us it is...  what hope does that give us to get past the heavies in the division, let alone the rest of the league?  UGH!!!  "0" zero, zinch, nada, and s.f.a  (wooohooo) 

 

 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

And another year of getting kicked around hard if team toughness as stated, is ummm "lacking" and with us it is...  what hope does that give us to get past the heavies in the division, let alone the rest of the league?  UGH!!!  "0" zero, zinch, nada, and s.f.a  (wooohooo) 

 

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad new but...

 

We're going to not be a very good team again next year. 

 

Besides, I had some spots available for UFA's there in the bottom 6 and on D plus we get Gudbranson and Dors back next year. There's room to add 'toughness' in that lineup. I'd also be open to trading Baer + for an upgrade on Horvat's W (which could also include toughness) FWIW.

[SabreFan1]

As everybody knows, I've been Team Tank for the last 2 seasons, but you have to be careful on how much you lose.  At some point you just begin to foster a culture of "acceptable losing" where you have parts of your team just happy that they have a job in the NHL.  The Sabres have run into that problem this past season.  Some were just thankful and were doing just enough so that they would continue drawing hefty paycheques playing the game while the rest were trying to win with those anchors.  Lehner as much as said so in a couple of interviews towards the end of the season.

 

The Canucks can't afford that to happen.

[appleboy]

33 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

As everybody knows, I've been Team Tank for the last 2 seasons, but you have to be careful on how much you lose.  At some point you just began to foster a culture of "acceptable losing" where you have parts of your team just happy that they have a job in the NHL.  The Sabres have run into that problem this past season.  Some were just thankful and were doing just enough so that they would continue drawing hefty paycheques playing the game while the rest were trying to win with those anchors.  Lehner as much as said so in a couple of interviews towards the end of the season.

 

The Canucks can't afford that to happen.

The problem is that you can't compete without the talent. How do you acquire the talent if you win too much? There is no easy solution.

[Heretic]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Hate to be the bearer of bad new but...

 

We're going to not be a very good team again next year. 

 

Besides, I had some spots available for UFA's there in the bottom 6 and on D plus we get Gudbranson and Dors back next year. There's room to add 'toughness' in that lineup. I'd also be open to trading Baer + for an upgrade on Horvat's W (which could also include toughness) FWIW.

Son of a gun.

 

Thanks a lot for ruining next season for me!

 

 

/sarcasm

 

 

[SabreFan1]

32 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The problem is that you can't compete without the talent. How do you acquire the talent if you win too much? There is no easy solution.

I agree.  The surest way to mediocrity in sports is to always finish in the middle.  TL and JB need to do their jobs and draft well while the Canucks are a bottom 10 team. 

[Chris12345]

There's two more years of complete crap coming.

 

It'll be interesting what they do with Loui Crappyson. That's gotta be top 5 on my worst deal list.

[oldnews]

44 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The problem is that you can't compete without the talent. How do you acquire the talent if you win too much? There is no easy solution.

I think this is over-stated.

There is a hell of a lot of talent that emerges outside the top 5 picks in a draft.

And lots of top 5 picks that turn out no better than players taken much later.

 

This is a beaten to death topic - but take a team like Anaheim.  Their current veteran core - Getzlaf, Perry - were actually drafted when they were a very good team (19th and 28th overall).   Kesler was 23rd the year Getzlaf was taken.  Is that the norm?  No.  But it's also no excuse - teams need to draft well regardless.  And being gifted repeated top picks doesn't necessarily build a winning hockey team.

 

So the point I'm trying to make - there is no formula, no cookie cutter, no right or wrong way to build, rebuild, retool or transition a team.   All approaches have been successes and failures in different contexts.  In the end a team needs to scout well at the pro and amateur levels, they need to develop well, they need to build a character culture, they need to play the 'long game' and build asset value at all levels of an organization, etc - really, there are all kinds of levels a team must address to be successful - and high end talent gifted via high picks is only one possible avenue that is not fool proof.  Also - there is truth to "hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard" - so arguably it's equally important to identify a work ethic, and develop a work ethic within your franchise as it is to simply focus on adding 'talent.'   There has been a whole lot of wasted talent in players that don't work hard enough to convert it into competitive edge.

 

[terrible.dee]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

Do you think management is sitting in the back room discussing how to end up 31st.

Maybe Tryamkin was a threat to a proper tank so they suggested he goes home for a year and maybe get a shot at the Olympics.

 

I am all in on the rebuild , call it what you want. I think they should be looking to acquire assets for any player that is not forecast to be here five years down the road.

 

Tanev ,Edler, Sutter , Sbisa , Guddy , Markstrom and LE. Maybe not all this year but over the next two seasons. Youth and speed mixed with some grit is what it takes to win now. The Black Hawks looked like us in 2012, 2013. Lets see what they will do? They have 21 mil tied up in two players who looked tired at 28 years old. Both locked up until they are 35.

Teams should never give out huge long term deals anymore. Once a player hits 28 they should be looking to move them out for young assets. Contracts should never go past 32 years old. After that do short term deals..

 

True, Kane and Towes will still be good but never as good as they were, it almost feels like that era of the Hawks is over and they should be sent elsewhere s they can start the next era, watching that core half-ass the next 10 years will be painfull

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

As everybody knows, I've been Team Tank for the last 2 seasons, but you have to be careful on how much you lose.  At some point you just began to foster a culture of "acceptable losing" where you have parts of your team just happy that they have a job in the NHL.  The Sabres have run into that problem this past season.  Some were just thankful and were doing just enough so that they would continue drawing hefty paycheques playing the game while the rest were trying to win with those anchors.  Lehner as much as said so in a couple of interviews towards the end of the season.

 

The Canucks can't afford that to happen.

I think a lot of fans have no idea how destructive continuous losing can be for the players.  These guys are highly competitive people that just want to go out and win.  Losing is not a consolation prize for them.   All their lives, they have had 2 goals; playing in the best team in the league and winning a Stanley cup.  For them to be in a situation where they are continuously losing for 1, 2, 3, 4, etc years must be incredibly dismal.  When fans say "Well they get paid big $ to lose,' or, 'Boohoo...they have the best job in the world' ; they show that they just understand the mindset of a pro.

 

i get why fans want to tank, but I also feel bad for the players that have to live it.

[SabreFan1]

28 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

I think a lot of fans have no idea how destructive continuous losing can be for the players.  These guys are highly competitive people that just want to go out and win.  Losing is not a consolation prize for them.   All their lives, they have had 2 goals; playing in the best team in the league and winning a Stanley cup.  For them to be in a situation where they are continuously losing for 1, 2, 3, 4, etc years must be incredibly dismal.  When fans say "Well they get paid big $ to lose,' or, 'Boohoo...they have the best job in the world' ; they show that they just understand the mindset of a pro.

 

i get why fans want to tank, but I also feel bad for the players that have to live it.

When you begin a tank, most of the players that are on the team will soon be gone.  That's why tanks should only ideally last a couple of years.  The thing with the Canucks is that there are now a handful of players that will be Canucks for a long time.  Subjecting them to a bottom 3 finish for a third year in a row could very well prove detrimental.

 

Tank jobs aren't meant to be a long term strategy.  They're meant to give a rebuild a quick start.  Now it's on JB and the rest of the front office to do their jobs properly in the upcoming draft.