Pepe Silvia Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 To Pitt: Sutter To Van: 2018 3rd round pick Vancouver does this to dump salary. Pittsburgh does this to address their 3rd line centre. Sutter waives his NTC to go back to a team he's familiar with and win some Stanley Cups with a powerhouse team. To Det: Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick To Van: Johan Franzen, Andeas Anthansiou Vancouver grabs an exciting young player in Anthansiou. He's having contract issues with Detroit, they have zero cap space to sign him. Detroit is sitting $3M over the cap and has huge salary tied up with players that have NTCs. They HAVE to shed salary. Zetterberg, Tartar and Franzen are the only big salary players without NTC. I doubt Detroit trades their captain or one of their top scorers in Tartar, so will probably look for someone to eat Franzen's salary. We'll be happy to do it for Anthansiou. Detroit also gets a player ready to step in on a cheap ELC. IN: Anthansiou, Franzen(salary) OUT: Sutter, Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick Feel free to adjust picks based on fair value. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Was gonna go bananas on ya...OMG, Franzen has 12,000,000 smackers/3 yrs left!..RU crazy?!(etc) But I see it's 3 yrs of 2 mill/ 1 mill/ 1 mill. His cap hit is 3.95 AAV. So does that effect some kind of Lu-penalty, if he hung them up early? Can't remember what that revisionist BS rule is called.."recapture" perhaps? If Lu does retire, btw, we're likely gonna need all the space we can dig up..all stuff to ponder & factor in. Wings have an extra 2nd, next June(Ottawa 2nd R pick). To take on that mess, I'd expect a goodie like that to also be tossed in. But you have US sending THEM a 2nd?! Are you a Wings fan, secretly? Cap space is valuable & important. Don't like these deals. Should utilize our space(as it opens)..not waste it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeydownUnder Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Have to agree with the guy above me. Sending a decent prospect, a second, and taking a multi year cap dump back is overkill for someone who hasn't even gotten over 30 points in a season. Like major over kill. The second should be coming to us not the other way around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agoork Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Which specific pieces have to go the other way are up for debate, but hell ya, I'd be all for targeting Athanasiou in a trade. He would make a fantastic winger for Bo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Don't think Pittsburgh is interested. Didn't Rutherford traded him twice already? From Carolina to Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh to Vancouver. Don't think he's too fond of him. Why bother taking a bad contract for an exciting young player, when we trade away another young exciting player. Athansiou might be a little older and already NHL ready, but he's still a 23 years with with 101 NHL games and 43 pts. I'd rather just wait and see how far Goldobin can go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Was gonna go bananas on ya...OMG, Franzen has 12,000,000 smackers/3 yrs left!..RU crazy?!(etc) But I see it's 3 yrs of 2 mill/ 1 mill/ 1 mill. His cap hit is 3.95 AAV. So does that effect some kind of Lu-penalty, if he hung them up early? Can't remember what that revisionist BS rule is called.."recapture" perhaps? If Lu does retire, btw, we're likely gonna need all the space we can dig up..all stuff to ponder & factor in. Wings have an extra 2nd, next June(Ottawa 2nd R pick). To take on that mess, I'd expect a goodie like that to also be tossed in. But you have US sending THEM a 2nd?! Are you a Wings fan, secretly? Cap space is valuable & important. Don't like these deals. Should utilize our space(as it opens)..not waste it. He does have a recapture penalty but it's Detroit that will have the hit and not his new team because his salary is already lower than his cap hit. He's also on IR and is unlikely to play again - he was exempt from expansion. Detroit will put him on LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Detroit can't score goals so they're going to trade away their 2nd leading goal scorer from last season - ok then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Fanuck said: Detroit can't score goals so they're going to trade away their 2nd leading goal scorer from last season - ok then.... They're $3.5 million over the cap and Athanasiou has been getting offers from the KHL. IMO they're trying to trade him right now. I think Athanasiou is someone we should be all over, same with Pastrnak if we can make the cap work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 8 hours ago, Pepe Silvia said: To Pitt: Sutter To Van: 2018 3rd round pick Vancouver does this to dump salary. Pittsburgh does this to address their 3rd line centre. Sutter waives his NTC to go back to a team he's familiar with and win some Stanley Cups with a powerhouse team. To Det: Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick To Van: Johan Franzen, Andeas Anthansiou Vancouver grabs an exciting young player in Anthansiou. He's having contract issues with Detroit, they have zero cap space to sign him. Detroit is sitting $3M over the cap and has huge salary tied up with players that have NTCs. They HAVE to shed salary. Zetterberg, Tartar and Franzen are the only big salary players without NTC. I doubt Detroit trades their captain or one of their top scorers in Tartar, so will probably look for someone to eat Franzen's salary. We'll be happy to do it for Anthansiou. Detroit also gets a player ready to step in on a cheap ELC. IN: Anthansiou, Franzen(salary) OUT: Sutter, Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick Feel free to adjust picks based on fair value. Thoughts? Would not make this trade Goldobin will be a 30 goal scorer , so to package up Goldobin 21 -and trading 2nd round pick for us would be 35th overall would be crazy crazy.. Don't let this ever happen in rebuilt we need high picks? Look who we pick with high second round pick this year Lind... We need draft picks we cannot give up high picks.. Det would love this trade taking pack salary from them and give up good prospects... !00% no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Pepe Silvia said: To Pitt: Sutter To Van: 2018 3rd round pick Vancouver does this to dump salary. Pittsburgh does this to address their 3rd line centre. Sutter waives his NTC to go back to a team he's familiar with and win some Stanley Cups with a powerhouse team. To Det: Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick To Van: Johan Franzen, Andeas Anthansiou Vancouver grabs an exciting young player in Anthansiou. He's having contract issues with Detroit, they have zero cap space to sign him. Detroit is sitting $3M over the cap and has huge salary tied up with players that have NTCs. They HAVE to shed salary. Zetterberg, Tartar and Franzen are the only big salary players without NTC. I doubt Detroit trades their captain or one of their top scorers in Tartar, so will probably look for someone to eat Franzen's salary. We'll be happy to do it for Anthansiou. Detroit also gets a player ready to step in on a cheap ELC. IN: Anthansiou, Franzen(salary) OUT: Sutter, Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick Feel free to adjust picks based on fair value. Thoughts? On the 1st deal: we don't need to cap dump. We'll have 30 mil to play with for the 2018/19 season. And Sutter is a solid shut down 3C that we really don't have a replacement for in the system yet. On the 2nd: I wouldn't add in the 2nd rounder, if Detroit is really in that much trouble then I think Goldy and a cap dump is more than enough and I'd like to see something like a 2nd rounder coming to us for the gift of taking Fransen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 hours ago, mll said: He does have a recapture penalty but it's Detroit that will have the hit and not his new team because his salary is already lower than his cap hit. He's also on IR and is unlikely to play again - he was exempt from expansion. Detroit will put him on LTIR. So what happens if Detroit (or TO) stays over the cap to begin the year? I thought all teams had to be at or under the cap prior to opening day, including those IR salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Pears said: They're $3.5 million over the cap and Athanasiou has been getting offers from the KHL. IMO they're trying to trade him right now. I think Athanasiou is someone we should be all over, same with Pastrnak if we can make the cap work. Is that before or after Franzen's LTIR is applied? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, wildcam said: Would not make this trade Goldobin will be a 30 goal scorer , so to package up Goldobin 21 -and trading 2nd round pick for us would be 35th overall would be crazy crazy.. Don't let this ever happen in rebuilt we need high picks? Look who we pick with high second round pick this year Lind... We need draft picks we cannot give up high picks.. Det would love this trade taking pack salary from them and give up good prospects... !00% no What are you basing that prediction on? Yes. He's a nice prospect, but he hasn't even shown that kind of scoring prowess in the AHL. There were only 30 or so 30 goal scorers in the entire league last season. Expecting Goldobin to suddenly transform himself into an elite goal scorer seems overly optimistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 11 hours ago, Pepe Silvia said: To Pitt: Sutter To Van: 2018 3rd round pick Vancouver does this to dump salary. Pittsburgh does this to address their 3rd line centre. Sutter waives his NTC to go back to a team he's familiar with and win some Stanley Cups with a powerhouse team. To Det: Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick To Van: Johan Franzen, Andeas Anthansiou Vancouver grabs an exciting young player in Anthansiou. He's having contract issues with Detroit, they have zero cap space to sign him. Detroit is sitting $3M over the cap and has huge salary tied up with players that have NTCs. They HAVE to shed salary. Zetterberg, Tartar and Franzen are the only big salary players without NTC. I doubt Detroit trades their captain or one of their top scorers in Tartar, so will probably look for someone to eat Franzen's salary. We'll be happy to do it for Anthansiou. Detroit also gets a player ready to step in on a cheap ELC. IN: Anthansiou, Franzen(salary) OUT: Sutter, Goldobin, 2018 2nd round pick Feel free to adjust picks based on fair value. Thoughts? Two thoughts: - Vancouver does not need to dump salary in this manner as Sutter is worth far more than a 3rd round pick in any scenario - Any trade where Vancouver gives up picks is only acceptable if the player coming back is borderline elite This deal does not make sense on those two thoughts from my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said: So what happens if Detroit (or TO) stays over the cap to begin the year? I thought all teams had to be at or under the cap prior to opening day, including those IR salaries. There's two ways to approach LTIR in the off-season. They can either be (1) under and then put the player on LTIR and then find his replacement or (2) be over up to the LTIR salary with his replacement already on the roster. When they put the player on LTIR they will then be under the cap. Detroit and Toronto are going with approach (2) - they are over the cap but once they put all the players on LTIR they will be under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, mll said: There's two ways to approach LTIR in the off-season. They can either be (1) under and then put the player on LTIR and then find his replacement or (2) be over up to the LTIR salary with his replacement already on the roster. When they put the player on LTIR they will then be under the cap. Detroit and Toronto are going with approach (2) - they are over the cap but once they put all the players on LTIR they will be under. Ah OK. I was confused over whether or not there was some pressure on say Detroit to "have to" move a player to be cap compliant by opening day but it sounds like thats not the case, so trade proposals e.g., shouldn't use that as a leverage point if I'm understanding correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Ah OK. I was confused over whether or not there was some pressure on say Detroit to "have to" move a player to be cap compliant by opening day but it sounds like thats not the case, so trade proposals e.g., shouldn't use that as a leverage point if I'm understanding correctly. CapFriendly has them at 3M above the cap and Franzen is 3.9M. So 900K left and only 21 healthy players and Athanasiou still to sign. They will have to clear cap space unless they have another player that could start the year on LTIR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: On the 1st deal: we don't need to cap dump. We'll have 30 mil to play with for the 2018/19 season. And Sutter is a solid shut down 3C that we really don't have a replacement for in the system yet. On the 2nd: I wouldn't add in the 2nd rounder, if Detroit is really in that much trouble then I think Goldy and a cap dump is more than enough and I'd like to see something like a 2nd rounder coming to us for the gift of taking Fransen. Keep Sutter. He's worth more to us than a 3rd round pick. I like AA but keep our 2nd and we get a 2nd to help them with their cap trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 2 hours ago, mll said: CapFriendly has them at 3M above the cap and Franzen is 3.9M. So 900K left and only 21 healthy players and Athanasiou still to sign. They will have to clear cap space unless they have another player that could start the year on LTIR. still in a pretty big pickle then. I don't see Detroit wanting anything from us but picks, and we need them as much as they do. AA probably lands in Carolina, they have a nice depth of prospects they could move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I wouldn't give Goldy + 2nd for AA straight up. Let alone taking Johan's contract. Also don't like your other deal. Sutter is a foundational piece and I don't see JB moving him. Maybe if JB got fired, the new GM would trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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