DIBdaQUIB Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: Soft team plays soft. Edmonton dominated our guys physically last night and didn't even play all that physical. Even McDavid ran a few guys knowing there was no risk of anyone taking a run at him (aside from Stecher). MDZ and Stecher were our only physical presence...that is just sad. Gudbranson is the only true physically intimidating player on this team and he seldom plays and brings little else. Edmonton has Larsson, Nurse, Kassian, Maroon and their best two forwards are both large enough to dominate physically as well. WE are small, soft and slow in a division of large, fast and physical teams. Our rookies are going to need some guys that can stand up for them or it will be open season when they get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: I think you hit the nail on the head. Setting up the prospects for success means having them play in a winning environment on other teams that are above their current level and being big contributors to the success of their current team. That would not be possible on the Canucks currently and could even stunt their growth or potential. Out of all those names you listed, I can see maybe 2 or 3 making the team next year (if that) . That's a pretty good company so I bet if they do make the team, they'd be coming in pretty good. (I wouldn't have expectations of having 2 or 3 players of Brock's calibre in one year but one can dream) Rebuilds don't happen overnight. I don't think you want more than a couple of rookies coming on to a team in a single year. Development and proper evaluation happens when a team is playing meaningful games. The more the better. The term used was competitive and that's what this means. Winning is another distinction. Ownership may want a playoff team every year but they must know they're going to have to wait a few years before Benning can get the team to that level. From there, the way Benning drafts and develops, it's a matter of maintaining. How many players have become regulars under Bennings watch? Obviously, it is normal for a break out to come up to a couple years after becoming a regular. 2014: Horvat 2015: Baertschi, Hutton, Markstrom 2016: Granlund, Stecher 2017: Boeser, Pouliot, Virtanen, Gaunce People who actually expect the Canucks to be a playoff team at the same time as adding all this youth (because there are other young players who are getting shots in addition to the above list) while dealing with a very old core are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: Edmonton dominated our guys physically last night and didn't even play all that physical. Even McDavid ran a few guys knowing there was no risk of anyone taking a run at him (aside from Stecher). MDZ and Stecher were our only physical presence...that is just sad. Gudbranson is the only true physically intimidating player on this team and he seldom plays and brings little else. Edmonton has Larsson, Nurse, Kassian, Maroon and their best two forwards are both large enough to dominate physically as well. WE are small, soft and slow in a division of large, fast and physical teams. Our rookies are going to need some guys that can stand up for them or it will be open season when they get here. I think that what really let the Canucks down last night was the number of odd man rushes that they gave up. The defense is pinching aggressively. When it works, great. When it doesn't work, you have young forwards trying to cover. A great example is the first goal last night. Stecher pinched and that left Virtanen back to cover who just doesn't handle the puck that well while skating backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldnews said: Canucks win that game last night and they're ahead of the Coilers - something to think about when you believe the team needs a 1st overall pick in order to compete when them. Also - doing what Edmonton has done the past decade is almost impossible to replicate. I agree with setting hard limits on lottery handouts - but if you believe what you state earlier in that post, the damage is already more than done. However, this (right beside the lottery champions) is where this team sits after a 2-11 stretch without Sutter, Horvat, Tanev/Gudbranson, Edler, Dorsett, Baertschi, Stecher... This team doesn't need to rely on pie-in-the-sky - it needs to keep doing what it is doing. And it has some serious talent still on the way - highly skilled talent not at the NHL level, something the lottery champions like Edmonton and Toronto don't necessarily have as they've graduated their lottery spoils. Pettersson, Gaudette, Lind - this team has top 6 talent in it's system. It has a wealth of young goaltending and a respectable group of young D that they'll keep adding to. A lot of people laughed at the idea that Vegas could/would be good right out of the gate. A lot of people would have given Luca Sbisa away for a song, or worse, bought that 'awful' contract out - anything to get rid of him. Well - now we're seeing how important depth is - as Vegas was able to select pretty much any #4 D in the league and a lineup full of middle six forwards. You are more confident in the Canuck talent pool than I can be. Comparing position by position The Canucks struggle in comparison with both the Oilers and Jets. But they should. The timelines of these three orgs are not close. The Oilers were within a whisker of CUP finals last year. This year they are going through a maturing process which should pay off. The Jets have already done that IMO and should be a very serious CUP contender this year. My concern about the Canuck talent pool has as much to do with the length of time before we see them in the NHL. Some will make it some will not. The 2018 Draft will be huge for where the org will be in another 3 years. So yes, I want Benning to move vets to get another 1st & 2nd Round pick. 4 picks in the first 2 rounds, in a strong draft is needed. Sadly, the market place for vets might not yield those picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Just now, Crabcakes said: I think that what really let the Canucks down last night was the number of odd man rushes that they gave up. The defense is pinching aggressively. When it works, great. When it doesn't work, you have young forwards trying to cover. A great example is the first goal last night. Stecher pinched and that left Virtanen back to cover who just doesn't handle the puck that well while skating backwards. Pretty sure that Green is so desperate to drive offence off the points that he is coaching his d-core to pinch to maintain ozone pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 5 hours ago, samurai said: Goals or assists? whiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregthehockeynut Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: I think that what really let the Canucks down last night was the number of odd man rushes that they gave up. The defense is pinching aggressively. When it works, great. When it doesn't work, you have young forwards trying to cover. A great example is the first goal last night. Stecher pinched and that left Virtanen back to cover who just doesn't handle the puck that well while skating backwards. That goal was even strength so there should have been another player back. When Jake lost the puck it was a mini 2 on 1 with Mcdavid. I think any forward would be in trouble in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Another loss and I see further panic at the disco has ensued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Knows Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 We competed for a bit and Marky played great. Overall a good tank loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Boudrias said: The timelines of these three orgs are not close. that was precisely the point. The majority of this team's young talent is not yet in the NHL. Of course they don't match up currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 47 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: I think that what really let the Canucks down last night was the number of odd man rushes that they gave up. The defense is pinching aggressively. When it works, great. When it doesn't work, you have young forwards trying to cover. A great example is the first goal last night. Stecher pinched and that left Virtanen back to cover who just doesn't handle the puck that well while skating backwards. The problem is, they need to develop more offense from their defense and pinching is a big piece of that. Forwards have to cover and it does create some risk but no one expects the forward to pass the puck to mcdavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yes we can nucks Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, aGENT said: Another loss and I see further panic at the disco has ensued This is what gets me. The same guys who are panicking are the ones who want to get rid of all the 'old guys' (Sedins, Vanek, Edler) and 'just play' the young prospects. What we will see then would be more losses and an erosion of the prospects' confidence. We'd become the Vancouver Oilers without a veteran presence on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon.Duck Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Nic Dowd was a beast. He’s not expected to score nor pipe up assists. He’s expected to be awesome defensively and win face offs. This guy is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, FireGillis said: I'm not sure why so many people get angry after losses. This was a good tank game with Boeser getting a point and losing a big 4 point game vs the Oilers. This team was never going to be good this year. This is what rebuilding looks like. Don't hate on the team for a lack of talent. Our future is bright with Pettersson, Lind, gaudette, juolevi, etc coming in the future. Hopefully, we can add another top 5 pick to that group this year. So I guess we don't need to cheer for these guys because the REAL Canucks aren't playing yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 49 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Pretty sure that Green is so desperate to drive offence off the points that he is coaching his d-core to pinch to maintain ozone pressure. The team has two options. Harm reduction hockey - or remain aggressive. We saw harm reduction hockey last year, when the team was decimated and they retreated (somewhat understandably). Green is doing something distinctly different. He's taking the risk of winning. They're still going to lose the majority of their games when they're so seriously overmatched at top 6 C - but they're playing to win and are going to give up some odd man rushes and counterpunch goals. No big deal. The real problem was the first period last night - the rest of the game was actually somewhat impressive (particularly the 2nd period) - if they get out without the JP rebound goal......when it slipped away in the 3rd, that was largely due to trying to sled uphill without the guns. They do have some guns on the way though imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Linden and Benning havent been hear long. But JB was the AGM of Boston when they destroyed us physically. You dont need a bunch of goods, but God Damn you need some players with size that play aggressively. We have 0, and for people to ask that of Jake, well I think if he aint going to score he cant play that role in the NHL. Other players are bigger and stronger and play that way all the time, not every 15-20games. We have lacked some physical players, or guys playing with an edge for I dont know seems like forever. Yes the NHL is going the route of skill, but we saw when we played Calgary with coach WD, the Playoffs are a completely different animal. You need players that can forecheck hard and finish their checks. I like what Dowd and Gaunce do defensively, but they NEED to play with an edge, they are fringe NHLers. Most NHL teams would have them on their AHL team lets face it. They need to bring more aggresiveness into their games. JB & TL must have blinders on if they DONT think they need to address this issue. We have a young rookie in Boeser who has been amazing, we have a slender Pettersson who looks like he will be good when he comes over. We need some protection or deterrants on this team for them. They will get run the F over or injured and then what...A Canuck will come over and push the guy and politely say "hey man dont do that to my guy" then skate away. No back bone on this team, it is sad. We just need a couple guys who compete hard, finish their checks and play with that edge. We see it in every PGT when a game like last night happens, and we all bring this same topic up. I am kind of hoping we move JB into an Executive role and bring in TB AGM Brisebois to be our GM. Let JB focus on scouting and other areas of running a team. He has made some good picks or trades, but the Jake Virtanen selection is not looking good lets face it. I would have loved Ehlers, the plays he makes are amazing. Not to say Jake cant turn it around but here are my 2 concerns as to why I dont think he can: 1. He had Green as coach in Utica last year & he never got great ice time and didnt show any offense all season. 2. Green is now the Canucks coach, and sticks Jake in a bottom role even with all our injuries, just like Goldobin. Good players in the NHL have always started by and still make mistakes. Having a coach on a basement team allowing them to play through it is what I think we need. We are going NOwhere, why not keep putting a guy like Jake out even after a bad play, or try him and his speed it OT. What is there to lose? Oh I know....That players confidence, jake has 0, as he knows 1 mistake and he is screwed so he probably steps out on the ice every game, worried about that instead of just playing his game. I hope this is tough love from the coach and in a year or 2 we will all laugh at ourselves for talking like this, but it doesnt look good right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, CanucksJay said: I actually think it's more his hockey IQ. I don't think it's his laziness at all. He is uncertain what to do and when to pressure and when to stay back. It is unfortunate because he is the fastest skater on the team and if he made his decisions quicker, he could do a lot of damage on his forechecks and constantly have the defence fumble the puck on puck retrievals. Maybe all it takes for Green is to say, I don't care if you get caught as long as you skate back hard but I want you to be first man in and lay a hit every time you are on the ice... I think you might be right, I have said as much in the past. However surely he doesn't have to think EVERY time. I mean are we saying Dowd has a higher hockey IQ than the no.6 o/a pick? If that is the case we have to question his selection. I'm now not convinced there is not some laziness there too. And what about his hits and checks? A kid could hit harder. Jake needs to give himself a shake, because I for one will not be blaming the coach if he is sent back down to Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 23 minutes ago, yes we can nucks said: This is what gets me. The same guys who are panicking are the ones who want to get rid of all the 'old guys' (Sedins, Vanek, Edler) and 'just play' the young prospects. What we will see then would be more losses and an erosion of the prospects' confidence. We'd become the Vancouver Oilers without a veteran presence on the team. That’s the problem and it’s why JB/Linden won’t do it. This team may have failed the “stay competitive” part of stay competitive while rebuilding but it’s still a solid platform (if short a top D and a physical forward) to usher in the next wave. People are “sick” of the veterans but a lot of nights they’re still the best players. Further, simply throwing rookies / AHLers to the wind isn’t the way to develop them. Green (and Willie) has a good track record of developing young guys.. it’s just going to take time to see who gets it and who doesn’t. All we can do is stay the course - we do have an excess of middling players so management will be selling the next two deadlines. But don’t hold your breath on many 2nds or any 1sts coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 36 minutes ago, EdgarM said: So I guess we don't need to cheer for these guys because the REAL Canucks aren't playing yet? You can cheer for Boeser to get points and win the calder! However, other than that cheer for losses and the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, alfstonker said: I think you might be right, I have said as much in the past. However surely he doesn't have to think EVERY time. I mean are we saying Dowd has a higher hockey IQ than the no.6 o/a pick? If that is the case we have to question his selection. I'm now not convinced there is not some laziness there too. And what about his hits and checks? A kid could hit harder. Jake needs to give himself a shake, because I for one will not be blaming the coach if he is sent back down to Utica. Virtanen is a boy in a man's body. There are 2 things that need to happen in his development. 1. He needs to become a man. That's what mentor's are for. Once he knows that he is an equal among many players in the NHL, he will play better. 2. He needs to understand the NHL game. That's IQ. High IQ players get it at a younger age. Others take time (Virt, Goldy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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