Still not sure about the coach

[kloubek]

41 minutes ago, lmm said:

I disagree

we have 4 rookie coaches

Our D is terrible

Our G is terrible

Our PK is bad, (although I am not sure if that is Manny's responsibility)

And our overall team is terrible.

I wonder how many players can say who they will line up with at the 10 minute mark of the 1st or the beginning of the 2nd?

I'll answer that, Hank, Dank and Jussi.

Since when was "LineBlender" an acceptable coaching strategy?

 

To counter...

Rookie coach doesn't necessarily mean a bad coach.  That's like saying Boeser sucks because he's a rookie as well.  I think Green is doing a fine job.  While we've been blown out some games, I'd say in the vast majority of them we've truly competed.  Not won, of course, because of the issues you and I mentioned, but competed.  

 

Yes our D is terrible.  But if you look at our goals against, if we were to have a good goalie I think they wouldn't look nearly as bad.  Their biggest issue is that they can't score to save their lives.

 

Our PK is bad, yes.  One of the reasons for that is our generally slow team, and I expect that to improve in the coming couple of years.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with yoyur last 3 lines.  I have to assume you aren't complaining that the first and second highest scorer on our current roster are on the ice, so what's the complaint... they they are playing with Jokinen?  Well he has two goals with them so why not try them out together? I can appreciate why he feels their playing style might compliment each other. Who would you rather put with them?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, kloubek said:

To counter...

Rookie coach doesn't necessarily mean a bad coach.  That's like saying Boeser sucks because he's a rookie as well.  I think Green is doing a fine job.  While we've been blown out some games, I'd say in the vast majority of them we've truly competed.  Not won, of course, because of the issues you and I mentioned, but competed.  

 

Yes our D is terrible.  But if you look at our goals against, if we were to have a good goalie I think they wouldn't look nearly as bad.  Their biggest issue is that they can't score to save their lives.

 

Our PK is bad, yes.  One of the reasons for that is our generally slow team, and I expect that to improve in the coming couple of years.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with yoyur last 3 lines.  I have to assume you aren't complaining that the first and second highest scorer on our current roster are on the ice, so what's the complaint... they they are playing with Jokinen?  Well he has two goals with them so why not try them out together? I can appreciate why he feels their playing style might compliment each other. Who would you rather put with them?

Bad goalies make for bad coaches.  Great goalies make for better coaches.  We have BAD goalies.

[lmm]

6 minutes ago, kloubek said:

To counter...

Rookie coach doesn't necessarily mean a bad coach.  That's like saying Boeser sucks because he's a rookie as well.  I think Green is doing a fine job.  While we've been blown out some games, I'd say in the vast majority of them we've truly competed.  Not won, of course, because of the issues you and I mentioned, but competed.  

 

Yes our D is terrible.  But if you look at our goals against, if we were to have a good goalie I think they wouldn't look nearly as bad.  Their biggest issue is that they can't score to save their lives.

 

Our PK is bad, yes.  One of the reasons for that is our generally slow team, and I expect that to improve in the coming couple of years.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with yoyur last 3 lines.  I have to assume you aren't complaining that the first and second highest scorer on our current roster are on the ice, so what's the complaint... they they are playing with Jokinen?  Well he has two goals with them so why not try them out together? I can appreciate why he feels their playing style might compliment each other. Who would you rather put with them?

my question is, why do they get to keep their line together when the rest of the guys don't know from shift to shift who their linemates will be.

I am not suggesting that the Sedins should enter the line blender, but that it is a sign of a twitchy (remember our complaint with the last coach) coach to CONSTANTLY shuffle lines.

Remember 4 games ago when Bo Leipsic and Jake looked good?

the next game Green starts Gagner in place of Virtanen. For what purpose?

If Green cannot make up his mind what his lines should look like, why should we expect the players to play with consistancy?

[kloubek]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

my question is, why do they get to keep their line together when the rest of the guys don't know from shift to shift who their linemates will be.

I am not suggesting that the Sedins should enter the line blender, but that it is a sign of a twitchy (remember our complaint with the last coach) coach to CONSTANTLY shuffle lines.

Remember 4 games ago when Bo Leipsic and Jake looked good?

the next game Green starts Gagner in place of Virtanen. For what purpose?

If Green cannot make up his mind what his lines should look like, why should we expect the players to play with consistancy?

I understand what you're saying, but I personally think you are being too critical.  Yes, a few games ago BLJ looked good, but then we've had difficulty scoring the last 3 games so maybe he's trying out different combinations to find ones that he thinks works well together.  I'd rather he do that now then to wait until next season when we actually have a potential playoff position on the line.  By all rights we have nothing to lose and if he's wrong (which he will probably more often than not) then it actually helps solidify our lottery chances so it's all good at this point.  To me anyway.

[RonMexico]

Why does everyone want to lose in style so much? It's not like 15 games or so of garbage effort and poor play will somehow poison the team for years to come. Time to play out the string and let whatever happens, happens.

[Dannydog]

On 3/8/2018 at 8:12 PM, Topcheeze86 said:

I just dont like the way he deploys goldy when “the kids” were supposed to be on trial the rest of the year ya he needs to cleanup his 2 way game but this kid has elite passing skills that are slept on he needs more than 7 mins a game 

Kind of reminds me a bit of how jake looked in the beginning of the season tied to the sedins or on a line with the dreaded anchor gags. Goldy may have to earn his chance to shine with players suited to his game in the same manner.... Hes gotta earn his defensive game kudos, to show off  the skills we traded Hansen for.

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, Dannydog said:

Kind of reminds me a bit of how jake looked in the beginning of the season tied to the sedins or on a line with the dreaded anchor gags. Goldy may have to earn his chance to shine with players suited to his game in the same manner.... Hes gotta earn his defensive game kudos, to show off  the skills we traded Hansen for.

He got put on a line with Leipsic and Horvat last game.  Green couldn't have put him in a better position to succeed.  It's still up to Goldobin to produce once's he's given that kind of opportunity.

 

Sick of the "Green is misusing Goldy" narrative.  Goldy needs to work harder or he'll be in the KHL next year.

[Dannydog]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

He got put on a line with Leipsic and Horvat last game.  Green couldn't have put him in a better position to succeed.  It's still up to Goldobin to produce once's he's given that kind of opportunity.

 

Sick of the "Green is misusing Goldy" narrative.  Goldy needs to work harder or he'll be in the KHL next year.

Sure" last game". the majority of his play time is with the sedins and or on a misc line featuring the superstar gagner. and yes the last couple games hes been given that opportunity to play with Bo, liepsic . I dont understand with this being a lost season as to why hes not played with these players sooner. get some chemistry, does he play with boucher on a line much? looked good in Utica. 

[lmm]

23 hours ago, kloubek said:

I understand what you're saying, but I personally think you are being too critical.  Yes, a few games ago BLJ looked good, but then we've had difficulty scoring the last 3 games so maybe he's trying out different combinations to find ones that he thinks works well together.  I'd rather he do that now then to wait until next season when we actually have a potential playoff position on the line.  By all rights we have nothing to lose and if he's wrong (which he will probably more often than not) then it actually helps solidify our lottery chances so it's all good at this point.  To me anyway.

March 5, the Islander game BBJ (Bo, Brendan, Jake) played well together. Brendan and Jake were named stars.

Canucks scored 6 goals.

March 7, Gagner starts in place of Jake and Jake is moved to the Jake, Nic, Reid line.

The Canucks have scored 3 goals in 4 games and B and B have played with Sam, Goldy and Tyler.

 

I think you are putting the drought before the shuffle.

 

[coastal.view]

On 3/13/2018 at 1:12 PM, lmm said:

March 5, the Islander game BBJ (Bo, Brendan, Jake) played well together. Brendan and Jake were named stars.

Canucks scored 6 goals.

March 7, Gagner starts in place of Jake and Jake is moved to the Jake, Nic, Reid line.

The Canucks have scored 3 goals in 4 games and B and B have played with Sam, Goldy and Tyler.

 

I think you are putting the drought before the shuffle.

 

you clearly are not a tanker

and are missing adept elements and moves required to assist the tank

not much the canucks are doing presently appears to be in serious pursuit of wins this season

they are clearly beat up and injured

but they have also continued a trend of being close to the worst team in the nhl after january the past 3 seasons

[Dtip]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:30 AM, snucks said:

I'm still not sure or happy with the Canucks coach, but this season is a learning experience for him. He must know now what needs to happen. He must in next season change what he needs to change, but he may still be handcuffed by senior management. The concept of becoming a fast skilled team which kind of abandons toughness and just tolerates injuries and bad officiating, while losing games and players, must be changed by the coach. I have not given up on Green yet, but expect a different bench boss next season. He must change the minds of upper management, and push a different direction. I think Green needs to become a little more like Iron Mike, Scotty Bowman, or Torts ..

Shhhhhhh. If we back away slowly, he may never post again

[alfstonker]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:37 PM, lmm said:

my question is, why do they get to keep their line together when the rest of the guys don't know from shift to shift who their linemates will be.

I am not suggesting that the Sedins should enter the line blender, but that it is a sign of a twitchy (remember our complaint with the last coach) coach to CONSTANTLY shuffle lines.

Remember 4 games ago when Bo Leipsic and Jake looked good?

the next game Green starts Gagner in place of Virtanen. For what purpose?

If Green cannot make up his mind what his lines should look like, why should we expect the players to play with consistancy?

This is the elephant in the room.

I have absolutely no doubt one or even both Sedins would have struggled to put up the kind of points they have if they had played on different lines/teams even.

 

That said we shouldn't count out what playing without one another might have added to their overall game - who knows. I feel they might have looked better in their later years than they do playing together but that's too late now imo.

 

As for the coach, I think he has decided to use these remaining games to experiment and build up a data bank of what he feels some players can do, who they are good with, what they need to improve on etc. He doesn't bother about the Sedins much because they are not going to influence this team for much longer and imo have already started to realise they are not adding anything of any significance.

 

We need to stop criticising the coach, he is hardly a year in the job and let's face it, we were doing really well until we got all the injuries and have been forced to realise we still have very little quality to fall back on - unlike most teams who tend to have had 2 or 3 good prospects marinating on the farm team for a couple of seasons. 

People like me who watch a lot of other teams are continually seeing replacements coming into teams and thinking "geez where did he come from, he's good" That will hopefully be the same with us in 2-3 years.

[IBatch]

On 2018-03-08 at 1:36 PM, xereau said:

Green was a blue collar player, so expect a similar team.  Remember when the team went in straight lines and smashed at the start of the season.  Ya, that is his identity.  For whatever reason, through injury, through habit, or through defiance, the team identity changed over this season.  Expect Green and Benning to cut the chaff that will not play his style.

Some of the greatest coaches ever were also blue collar players or even fringe ones, while some of the best ever to play didn't last long.  My father in law thinks they are better coaches because they had to think the game better to stay in because they lacked the natural gifts the best players enjoy.  Not that Gretzky couldn't think the game...

Green is fine, he's got a lot of nothing to work with but remember how excited we were to see the Sedins minutes trimmed and early on when we had an actual NHL level roster to work with?  

[alfstonker]

51 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Some of the greatest coaches ever were also blue collar players or even fringe ones, while some of the best ever to play didn't last long.  My father in law thinks they are better coaches because they had to think the game better to stay in because they lacked the natural gifts the best players enjoy.  Not that Gretzky couldn't think the game...

Green is fine, he's got a lot of nothing to work with but remember how excited we were to see the Sedins minutes trimmed and early on when we had an actual NHL level roster to work with?  

Agreed and I don't think I agree with the poster you were replying to in that I didn't think we "went in straight lines and smashed" whatever that actually means. I think we were more subtle than that.

[snucks]

Green needs to tell management what is needed. He is probably going to do that and have real input because it looks like upper management thinks all will be well next season.

 

The team is weak in all areas. They can't score. They don't shoot the puck enough, and pass too much , reluctant to give up the puck because the D is so bad.

 

So many injuries, Why ?

 

So Green is in a tough place. The coach is hampered by the Sedins playing out their careers.

 

Since 2011 how did Winnepeg get to be so much better than Canucks? No body listened to Torts, thats why.

[lmm]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:31 AM, alfstonker said:

This is the elephant in the room.

I have absolutely no doubt one or even both Sedins would have struggled to put up the kind of points they have if they had played on different lines/teams even.

 

That said we shouldn't count out what playing without one another might have added to their overall game - who knows. I feel they might have looked better in their later years than they do playing together but that's too late now imo.

 

As for the coach, I think he has decided to use these remaining games to experiment and build up a data bank of what he feels some players can do, who they are good with, what they need to improve on etc. He doesn't bother about the Sedins much because they are not going to influence this team for much longer and imo have already started to realise they are not adding anything of any significance.

 

We need to stop criticising the coach, he is hardly a year in the job and let's face it, we were doing really well until we got all the injuries and have been forced to realise we still have very little quality to fall back on - unlike most teams who tend to have had 2 or 3 good prospects marinating on the farm team for a couple of seasons. 

People like me who watch a lot of other teams are continually seeing replacements coming into teams and thinking "geez where did he come from, he's good" That will hopefully be the same with us in 2-3 years.

I agree with tyour first 3 points.

 

It has always amazed me at all Canuck coaches reluctance to splitting the Sedins when Henrik won the Art Ross trophy, set a club record for points, set personal bests in goals. assists and shots during the season the Daniel missed 19 games early in the season. I think without Burkie and the Canucks, Hank and Dank could wel have had Sumdstrom/ Ferrero careers. But I also tihnk that with better coaching they could have done more than what they have. Coaches allowing the Sdeins to always play together is as much as any other reason that they have become stale, and taken the team with them.

 

I agree with you that Green is experimenting, however, I disagree with his methods. With 10 games left if he wants to give players like Virtanen 3 games with Bo, 3 with Sutte, ect, I think he might get a feel for wether Jake is a scorer or a defensive forward. But changing linemates twice per pereiod is not helpful for any players developement. about players developing chemistry. Green is not building that in any way. What is Jake proving/learning playing the last 3 games with Dowd and Boucher?

I am fine with Jussi and Gagner spending time with the Sedins however, because the Sedins are not teaching the young guys useful skills.

 

I think we need too stop critisizing the players and lay the blame where it belongs, on coaches and management. Look at the avetar on Huttons Wink compared to the picture currently used on CDC. Hutton was a player that came in here with some verve, His hair was long and he winked at his team mates, or maybe that was you he winked at. He had confidence. That is all gone now. Click on his stats, there is a pic of a very confused player. (i am not even sure why they would pick that pic?) Its not just Hutton, its Jake, Pouliot, Goldy, (scored in his first game) Tryamkin (wouldn't you get home sick if your spouce came home hating his/her coach ) even Motte and Liepsic looked  better their first couple of games. 

 

In my world the poops run back uphill to the top, not the direction of gravity. If the players are not progressing its on the coaches. If your veteran leadership doesn't lead its on the coach and then manager. If the coaches can keep their jobs for 3 years its on the manager. If the manager can't find a quality coach its on the President. If the President keeps his job while all below him fail, its on the owner. If the owner doesn't do his job, its up to the fans just like in Ottawa.

[lmm]

On 3/16/2018 at 10:24 PM, coastal.view said:

you clearly are not a tanker

and are missing adept elements and moves required to assist the tank

not much the canucks are doing presently appears to be in serious pursuit of wins this season

they are clearly beat up and injured

but they have also continued a trend of being close to the worst team in the nhl after january the past 3 seasons

Not sure if you are just trolling me or are serious.

Lets just suppose you are seriious.

What you are suggesting is no different than what the Oilers have done.

Ruin their good young prospects while waiting to add new ones.

What happened to the concept of chemistry?

Looking for great things from that Liepsic- Bo- Motte line in years to come

I guess Jake will be pretty sad when Dowd and Boucher both get cut next year.

And who won't miss the Sedins?  They have lined up with everybody except the goalies and Brenden Gaunce

Funny that htey are the most injury prone team and yet players like Sestito and Tryamkin can't make the team because they are too out of shape.

I guess teh Grouse Grind is a Great indicator of who will finish the season.

 

[alfstonker]

14 hours ago, lmm said:

I agree with tyour first 3 points.

 

It has always amazed me at all Canuck coaches reluctance to splitting the Sedins when Henrik won the Art Ross trophy, set a club record for points, set personal bests in goals. assists and shots during the season the Daniel missed 19 games early in the season. I think without Burkie and the Canucks, Hank and Dank could wel have had Sumdstrom/ Ferrero careers. But I also tihnk that with better coaching they could have done more than what they have. Coaches allowing the Sdeins to always play together is as much as any other reason that they have become stale, and taken the team with them.

 

I agree with you that Green is experimenting, however, I disagree with his methods. With 10 games left if he wants to give players like Virtanen 3 games with Bo, 3 with Sutte, ect, I think he might get a feel for wether Jake is a scorer or a defensive forward. But changing linemates twice per pereiod is not helpful for any players developement. about players developing chemistry. Green is not building that in any way. What is Jake proving/learning playing the last 3 games with Dowd and Boucher?

I am fine with Jussi and Gagner spending time with the Sedins however, because the Sedins are not teaching the young guys useful skills.

 

I think we need too stop critisizing the players and lay the blame where it belongs, on coaches and management. Look at the avetar on Huttons Wink compared to the picture currently used on CDC. Hutton was a player that came in here with some verve, His hair was long and he winked at his team mates, or maybe that was you he winked at. He had confidence. That is all gone now. Click on his stats, there is a pic of a very confused player. (i am not even sure why they would pick that pic?) Its not just Hutton, its Jake, Pouliot, Goldy, (scored in his first game) Tryamkin (wouldn't you get home sick if your spouce came home hating his/her coach ) even Motte and Liepsic looked  better their first couple of games. 

 

In my world the poops run back uphill to the top, not the direction of gravity. If the players are not progressing its on the coaches. If your veteran leadership doesn't lead its on the coach and then manager. If the coaches can keep their jobs for 3 years its on the manager. If the manager can't find a quality coach its on the President. If the President keeps his job while all below him fail, its on the owner. If the owner doesn't do his job, its up to the fans just like in Ottawa.

I totally agree apart from this.

My problem is I would rather defend coaches than criticise them. The reason being is that their job is on the line and possibly their future so you have to assume they feel they have a system of assessment that works for them.

WD used to be criticised for not shaking it up enough but I think he was smart - he knew he didn't have much in the way of quality, even his young players were in their first or second season so he substituted "familiarity" for hockey smarts, hoping the fact that playing regularly together on the same line most nights would compensate for having a pretty low calibre roster.

 

We must stop assuming Tryamkin had more "rights" than anyone else on the team. He was a rookie in his first full year. Often at the start, he looked raw, getting drawn out of position and being inconsistent in his physical approach to the game. He turned up out of condition and anyone who thinks he is smart enough to criticise his coaches is savvy enough in my book to know when he is not fit enough to play.

 

It was the same in his 2015-16 end of season games - he was sucking air through his butt. WD and DL improved his game beyond recognition and imo it was the reason he was a standout D when he went home. Why he didn't get into the Olympic team, also just my opinion, is this air of self entitlement he has  - the Russian Olympic coaches probably knew what he was like.

 

Leipsic is his own worst enemy - it is plain he doesn't know when to lay a pass off to his line mates. When he first came in he was finding his way and passing to team mates but after a bit of success he seems to think he's Pat Kane now. Motte for me has got better after a slow start.

Jake is improving but still needs to read the game better (much better) go to 3mins in to the first period of the Vegas game and watch how slow he was to realise he had to get to the boards to receive a return pass from Danny? - Hell even I was moving my feet to the boards at least a second before him.

 

Hutton, Pouliot, Goldy, I won't defend any of them against the coach. I see every night what Green is trying to get these players to do - and they are just not doing it consistently enough. At the end of the day it is ultimately a sign that they are just slow to learn or worse still playing in a league that is too difficult for them. Luckily they are young but they only have time to learn on the job here because we are so strapped for adequate replacements and soon that won't always be the case.

[TheGuardian_]

There appears that this management group really wants old time coaching, the coach carrying a big stick.

 

He certainly has his favourites Leipsic and Pouilet have a much longer leash, Leipsic is second only to Horvat in icetime since he got here, what made him so special, doesn't knock players off the puck, isn't terribly fast, is small and plays small.

 

Groot, 2016/17, considering his PP time was almost nil and he was a main stay on the PK as a rookie, his conditioning aside, his +/- was 4th best of all the dmen including Biega who only got spot duty, Guddy -14, Edler -20, Stecher -16, Hutton -22 only Biega -4, Tanev +3 and Sbisa -1 had better numbers and no dman had more hits. 

 

Green doesn't have to worry about his job right now and he should be craming as much icetime down the necks of all the young players, he must know what he is going to get from players that have been pro's for 8 years or so. All the young guys should be around the 18 minute mark.

[smokes]

I don't like the coach, haven't liked the past two coaches. I don't agree with this philosophy that every player must play a good two way game. A good coach lets offensive players play their offensive game and give him linemates that can cover defensively if they make mistakes. Remember the WCE. Naslund and Bertuzzi were not known as great defensive players, but Morrison made up for them. When you look around the league there are a lot of lines like that. The Canucks however wants everyone to play the same way which is predictable and stagnates a young players creativity.