[Trade] Canucks trade Michael Carcone to Maple Leafs for Josh Leivo

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, 40Dangles said:

I think credit also needs to go our our pro scouting staff and JB for recognizing this and going after him. Still tbd if he’s for real and where he will top out (people often get exited by new pieces we get in trades and they often don’t pan out long term), but he seems to have all the tools to be and effective top 9 player who can move up and down the lineup. Given we gave up a player who likely will never be an NHL regular, kudos to JB and team for getting an upgrade for cheap. 

A lot of Benning haters were very critical of his pro scouting. Although I'm sure they will just say that this was an obvious trade and any moron could've figured it out.

[Nave]

We won this trade.

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, NaveJoseph said:

We won this trade.

Definitely. He's a guy that most media and fans liked but couldn't get in the lineup. I'm surprised the Leafs couldn't get a better return.

 

Good on Benning for getting it done, I really like Leivo as a versatile middle-6 forward at least for the future short-term.

[kanucks25]

On 2/11/2019 at 12:04 PM, theo5789 said:

A lot of Benning haters were very critical of his pro scouting. Although I'm sure they will just say that this was an obvious trade and any moron could've figured it out.

If you look at this pro acquisitions as a whole, it's still a disturbing list.

[Caboose]

Been singing Leivo's praises for years, he just never stuck in Toronto. Enjoy him guys, he'll be a beaut for you! 

[Maddogy]

On 2/11/2019 at 1:04 PM, theo5789 said:

A lot of Benning haters were very critical of his pro scouting. Although I'm sure they will just say that this was an obvious trade and any moron could've figured it out.

Yes, except the 29 other morons running their NHL teams did not end up with Leivo. I guess they are morons. 

[The Lock]

On 2/12/2019 at 12:42 PM, kanucks25 said:

If you look at this pro acquisitions as a whole, it's still a disturbing list.

Is it really that disturbing when compared with other GM's though? It's really easy to focus on the GM of the team you love to cheer for, but that also means it's easy to forget that all of the other GM's have made mistakes too. Some GM's make less mistakes than others obviously, but we can literally focus on the acquisitions of each GM and effectively say the glass is half full or empty on any of them.

 

Not that I'm in any way trying to defend Benning, but most people who are against Benning for his acquisitions seem to only really focus on Benning and not on any other GM, which to me is simply unrealistic.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

Is it really that disturbing when compared with other GM's though? It's really easy to focus on the GM of the team you love to cheer for, but that also means it's easy to forget that all of the other GM's have made mistakes too. Some GM's make less mistakes than others obviously, but we can literally focus on the acquisitions of each GM and effectively say the glass is half full or empty on any of them.

 

Not that I'm in any way trying to defend Benning, but most people who are against Benning for his acquisitions seem to only really focus on Benning and not on any other GM, which to me is simply unrealistic.

Also ignores the context of trying to lure UFA's to a basement dwelling rebuild team or acquiring guys in trade with little to no trade assets.

 

He's not a miracle worker.

 

IMO, we can't particularly judge his 'pro acquisitions' until he has a more competitive team to lure guys and now that we have something more resembling depth of any value to actually move around.

 

The next few years will tell FAR more about that aspect of his GM abilities than the last few years IMO.

[PuckFather]

On 2/12/2019 at 12:42 PM, kanucks25 said:

If you look at this pro acquisitions as a whole, it's still a disturbing list.

Peter Chiarelli says hello. 

[kanucks25]

7 hours ago, The Lock said:

Is it really that disturbing when compared with other GM's though? It's really easy to focus on the GM of the team you love to cheer for, but that also means it's easy to forget that all of the other GM's have made mistakes too. Some GM's make less mistakes than others obviously, but we can literally focus on the acquisitions of each GM and effectively say the glass is half full or empty on any of them.

 

Not that I'm in any way trying to defend Benning, but most people who are against Benning for his acquisitions seem to only really focus on Benning and not on any other GM, which to me is simply unrealistic.

 

29 minutes ago, PuckFather said:

Peter Chiarelli says hello. 

Not saying he's the only GM that has a less than favorable track record.

 

Just that, in a vacuum, Benning's has been atrocious.

 

Leivo might be the best find, which is saying something (no offense to the guy or the move, both of which I've already stated I like).

[Mo Grit]

Quote

Leivo might be the best find, which is saying something

Motte is saying something similar.

Great additions, love 'em both.

Imagine how entertaining and competitive we'd be if Benning can swing 2 or 3 more of these deals.

 

[The Lock]

41 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Not saying he's the only GM that has a less than favorable track record.

 

Just that, in a vacuum, Benning's has been atrocious.

 

Leivo might be the best find, which is saying something (no offense to the guy or the move, both of which I've already stated I like).

So then was Baertschi not a good find? Was Motte not a good find? Are we going to ignore the fact that we have a team knocking on the door of the playoffs prematurely when there are numerous teams in the league that haven't made the playoffs in years?

 

Yeah, atrocious in a vacuum. Being blunt but honest, I'm going to assume you've been stuck in that vacuum for the past 5 years because it takes a lot of tunnel vision to claim that Leivo's the first good pick up. lol

[Toews]

From what I have read Dubas promised Leivo that he would be moved to a team where he would have an opportunity to earn a spot in the top 6. The trade apparently did not take too much negotiating either, was done in a matter of minutes. Benning also stated in the interview that it was Toronto's depth that made this move a necessity. This isn't the only transaction that Benning had done. Canucks have acquired Leivo, Lablanc for Carcone, MacMaster and loaning Gagner to the Marlies. 

 

I don't believe Leivo was even shopped to the highest bidder. Imo the seeds for this trade were planted when Benning loaned Gagner, a move that was puzzling from the onset and drew much criticism on CDC because Benning was committing the cardinal sin, helping the Leafs, not to mention the Marlies and Comets being divisional rivals. The criticism I see frequently against Benning is that he isn't business savvy. I don't know if this disproves that notion but it does show that Benning can cultivate relationships with his peers.

 

I will preface this by saying that I don't mean to knock Gillis because looking back I do believe he did an exceptional job keeping the core of that team together as long as possible. But I also think we could have used a trade or two like this but I don't think that was one of Gillis' strengths. You have to give a little to get a little and maybe I am wrong but my sense of Mike Gillis was that there was very little 'give' to him. 

 

For me when I look at both guys I see such contrasting personalities and strengths. Benning is the better scout and probably better at cultivating relationships among his peers while Gillis' was great with trades and signings and managing the salary cap.

[rekker]

27 minutes ago, Toews said:

From what I have read Dubas promised Leivo that he would be moved to a team where he would have an opportunity to earn a spot in the top 6. The trade apparently did not take too much negotiating either, was done in a matter of minutes. Benning also stated in the interview that it was Toronto's depth that made this move a necessity. This isn't the only transaction that Benning had done. Canucks have acquired Leivo, Lablanc for Carcone, MacMaster and loaning Gagner to the Marlies. 

 

I don't believe Leivo was even shopped to the highest bidder. Imo the seeds for this trade were planted when Benning loaned Gagner, a move that was puzzling from the onset and drew much criticism on CDC because Benning was committing the cardinal sin, helping the Leafs, not to mention the Marlies and Comets being divisional rivals. The criticism I see frequently against Benning is that he isn't business savvy. I don't know if this disproves that notion but it does show that Benning can cultivate relationships with his peers.

 

I will preface this by saying that I don't mean to knock Gillis because looking back I do believe he did an exceptional job keeping the core of that team together as long as possible. But I also think we could have used a trade or two like this but I don't think that was one of Gillis' strengths. You have to give a little to get a little and maybe I am wrong but my sense of Mike Gillis was that there was very little 'give' to him. 

 

For me when I look at both guys I see such contrasting personalities and strengths. Benning is the better scout and probably better at cultivating relationships among his peers while Gillis' was great with trades and signings and managing the salary cap.

Good read. I think Gilles's history as a player agent sealed his fate. Just seemed no GM was ever going to really want to fair deal with GMMG. The Ehroff trade being the only exception I can think of.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Motte is saying something similar.

Great additions, love 'em both.

Imagine how entertaining and competitive we'd be if Benning can swing 2 or 3 more of these deals.

 

Carcone signed as a UFA undrafted prospect- flipped for Leivo.

Vanek signed as a UFA - flipped for Motte.

Stecher signed as a UFA undrafted prospect.

MacEwen signed as a UFA undrafted prospect.

 

That's some good value by other means than picks.

 

[kanucks25]

4 hours ago, Mo Grit said:

Motte is saying something similar.

Great additions, love 'em both.

Imagine how entertaining and competitive we'd be if Benning can swing 2 or 3 more of these deals.

 

 

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

So then was Baertschi not a good find? Was Motte not a good find? Are we going to ignore the fact that we have a team knocking on the door of the playoffs prematurely when there are numerous teams in the league that haven't made the playoffs in years?

 

Yeah, atrocious in a vacuum. Being blunt but honest, I'm going to assume you've been stuck in that vacuum for the past 5 years because it takes a lot of tunnel vision to claim that Leivo's the first good pick up. lol

You know it's bleak when he's been the GM for like 5 years now and Motte, a career replaceable 12th/13th forward is cited as one of his good pro acquisitions.

 

Absolutely laughable.

 

I didn't say the first good pickup, I said maybe the best.

 

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Carcone signed as a UFA undrafted prospect- flipped for Leivo.

Vanek signed as a UFA - flipped for Motte.

Stecher signed as a UFA undrafted prospect.

MacEwen signed as a UFA undrafted prospect.

 

That's some good value by other means than picks.

 

Stecher was a great signing but he nor MacEwen was a pro acquisition.

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Stecher was a great signing but he (nor MacEwen) was a pro acquisition.

What?   Who ga#

[PuckFather]

4 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

Not saying he's the only GM that has a less than favorable track record.

 

Just that, in a vacuum, Benning's has been atrocious.

 

Leivo might be the best find, which is saying something (no offense to the guy or the move, both of which I've already stated I like).

Sorry dude, you're in the wrong place. This is not HFbaords.

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

What?   Who ga#

Because you joined a conversation about Benning's pro acquisitions and Stecher... isn't one?

 

4 minutes ago, PuckFather said:

Sorry dude, you're in the wrong place. This is not HFbaords.

Not sure what this means but okay.

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Because you joined a conversation about Benning's pro acquisitions and Stecher... isn't one?

 

Your opinion of his pro acquisitions wasn't interesting - I was responding to Mo Grit, period.

 

If you want to talk about Benning's pro acquisitions:

 

Sutter

Gudbranson

Baertschi

Granlund

Motte

Goldobin

Dahlen

Leivo

Pouliot

 

Lemme guess:

You'd rather have Kesler, Shinkaruk, Vanek, Hansen, Burrows, Carcone, Andrey Pedan and a pick?