Gaudette Celly Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Please turn off TMZ, Dhaliwal, Sekeres, and the rest of the whinging media buffoons and their incessant "CAP HELL! CAP HELL!" mantra. It's almost as if they get together to write their chorus so they can sing in sweet trolling harmony. They have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the team now, so this is the only negative (false) narrative they can manufacture. Is it just me, or is that not so completely obvious? One simple look at capfriendly and all this nonsense evaporates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gaudette Celly said: Please turn off TMZ, Dhaliwal, Sekeres, and the rest of the whinging media buffoons and their incessant "CAP HELL! CAP HELL!" mantra. It's almost as if they get together to write their chorus so they can sing in sweet trolling harmony. They have absolutely NOTHING to complain about the team now, so this is the only negative (false) narrative they can manufacture. Is it just me, or is that not so completely obvious? One simple look at capfriendly and all this nonsense evaporates. You have clearly not been using capfriendly and looking forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, mll said: CapFriendly shows the Canucks with 30K in end of season cap space - any performance bonus beyond that amount is going to count against next season's cap. Getting healthy players back and taking Ferland off LTIR should increase the 30K but it's already 65% into the season so won't be enough to cover all the bonuses unless they trade off the roster. Pettersson and Hughes look well on their way to hit their schedule A - combined 1.7M. It seems less likely that Pettersson would hit his full schedule B of 2M. It's for league wide performance like being top-10 in scoring or winning/placing on a major award. He probably got the full 2M for the Calder last season. To create 1.7M with only 35% of the season left they would need to move out close to 5M by the end of this month. The longer they wait to make a move the less cap space they can bank - the higher the bonus carry over. At the TDL there's only 20% of the season left - if they are still at 30K (which is well possible if they are using LTIR) they would need to move out 8.5M at that date to reach 1.7M in end of season cap space to avoid a bonus carry over. Next season is again the same issue as Pettersson and Hughes will still be on their ELCs. If Juolevi or another bonus eligible prospect make the team there could be even more bonuses owed. Yep, that is the big issue that turns our cap situation from tight.. to significantly problematic. Especially when you think at not being able to push next years bonuses into the year that we are are paying Petterson and Hughes on their next contracts. That means “as is” we have to drop our cap used next year by an estimated $7million (the pushed from this year and the buffer we need to leave next season to not push those bonuses). We are capped out when the guys get back from LTIR, and over the cap. Also, I think once they hit a certain number of schedule A bonuses, they max out. That came up when Hughes got voted to the all-star game, it wasn’t going to matter because he was going to hit enough bonuses. My understanding is that (barring injury) they will both hit enough to be the max total in A bonuses between them. Edited January 22, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I agree that we need to make some cap moves, but I don't think we need to include anyone as valuable as Demko or Juolevi to get it done. The two contracts we would need to move (at minimum) for next year would be Sutter and Baertschi. Sutter could probably be moved to a team like Anaheim or Ottawa even if we have to retain a bit. We can afford to attach a prospect like Madden (don't see much room for him down the middle moving forward and we have a surplus of wingers already) to that deal and get a mid round pick in return. Definitely not ideal and could've been avoided, but not horrible. Baertschi likely won't be as tough to move given that he's younger, cheaper and has already passed through waivers. There were rumours that Montreal was interested in him before they picked up Kovaluchuk, so maybe we could circle back there. I'd expect something like Baertschi + 3rd/4th for a late round pick. There's also the fantasy that Eriksson could retire after receiving his July 1st signing bonus. In theory, the idea would be that Benning agreed to keep Eriksson in the NHL for this year to collect his NHL salary on the condition that he retires at the end of the year. It would explain how Eriksson made the team despite absolutely terrible play to start the year and Green reportedly wanting to send him down. It would also explain his recent hot streak; he's trying to end his career on a high note. It would also explain why Benning is so confident that the cap will be worked out despite clear evidence to the contrary (or he's just overlooking it). There's absolutely no evidence of this though and it's just a hope more than anything else. If Eriksson doesn't retire, then he should definitely be sent down next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Trading away cheap young players when we're approaching a cap crunch is not a good solution. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, Provost said: You have clearly not been using capfriendly and looking forward. Apparently neither has Jim Benning, as he has the exact opposite viewpoint as you. Maybe you should tweet him the link the the Cap Friendly website before it’s too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Trading Juolevi AND Demko AND Madden simply for cap space. We’ve officially entered the twilight zone... Edited January 22, 2020 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 If we're not trading within our own division, I'd be down to trade Sutter to Detroit who's been all-time bad (-88 in goal differential, I believe the worst of the last decade was the 2016-2017 Av's who were at -112...). IF they want a semblance of a starter and someone to help stabilize things defensively I'd flip Sutter and Demko for one of their goalies and two 2nd's. Then we could deal Sven to Anaheim like it's been discussed, though I'd just throw in a middle round pick since I think in the right opportunity he could still belong in the league. (hope it doesn't come down to this to simply open up cap space though, it would be nice to have this depth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Apparently neither has Jim Benning, as he has the exact opposite viewpoint as you. Maybe you should tweet him the link the the Cap Friendly website before it’s too late... No, he dismissed the issue in a public interview. No GM is going to say they have a big problem. JB is no different and you have no idea what his actual viewpoint on it is. We can see the. Umbers and the CBA though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said: For sure. I am fine with parting with picks rather than prospects. We have a lot of guys on the cusp and need to keep it that way since we are in a position to really benefit from it. Some prospects like Karlsson, Palmu, Lockwood, Costmar, Brisebois, Goldy i'd be more than fine with parting with however. Also if there's anyone I want out of Anaheim it's Rakell Yeah, those guys are kind of longshot prospects anyways, but to a team like the Ducks, they don't exactly have a lot to lose, so why not? They'll have a better opportunity to crack their lineup than ours anyways. Rakell would look nice in a Canuck uniform, but I really think the priority should be the blueline, especially if we're going to be moving picks to shed salary. From a forward perspective we're set for the foreseeable future. Not to say that we shouldn't upgrade up the opportunity presents itself, but the weakness in our lineup and our prospect pool is pretty apparent. Aside from that, we're not in bad shape. Most teams probably aren't in a position to be able to write off a whole draft for the sake of shedding bad contracts. If this were to go down the way we're proposing, it would sort of be a testament to both GMJBs strengths and weaknesses as a GM xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Provost said: Yep, that is the big issue that turns our cap situation from tight.. to significantly problematic. Especially when you think at not being able to push next years bonuses into the year that we are are paying Petterson and Hughes on their next contracts. That means “as is” we have to drop our cap used next year by an estimated $7million (the pushed from this year and the buffer we need to leave next season to not push those bonuses). We are capped out when the guys get back from LTIR, and over the cap. Also, I think once they hit a certain number of schedule A bonuses, they max out. That came up when Hughes got voted to the all-star game, it wasn’t going to matter because he was going to hit enough bonuses. My understanding is that (barring injury) they will both hit enough to be the max total in A bonuses between them. We can fit all our players back from injury. And still be under the cap this year. You are correct, that some bonus money may end up carried in to next year. That is a good problem to have; superlative rookie & young players. I'll take that any day.... I'm certainly not going to trade Demko, so we dont have to carry a bonus over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I would move guys like goldy, palmu, for cap space, maybe woo, I am just not high on woo, or one of the log jam Ahl d men we have- chettefiled, breezer sautner sautner + Goldy + palmu and ericcson retain $1.5 mill to Anaheim for future considerations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: So sending out a future top pairing Dman (OJ) and a potential number one goalie (Demko) to get Miller and Getzlaf while playing 1/2 of of Getlaf's salary is your idea for a team coming out of a rebuild that has finally gotten younger, faster and better. Where did you find the William Nyalnder picture? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 26 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said: I would move guys like goldy, palmu, for cap space, maybe woo, I am just not high on woo, or one of the log jam Ahl d men we have- chettefiled, breezer sautner sautner + Goldy + palmu and ericcson retain $1.5 mill to Anaheim for future considerations That is a ridiculous offer. Goldy could have been had for free. Palmu and Sautner are very low leveL prospects that every team has plenty of. Cap space has never been at such a premium in the league. There aren’t the bunch of teams at the cap floor anymore to offload contracts to.... and there are a LOT of teams trying to shed cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squamfan Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 4 hours ago, Provost said: So Anaheim realizes now it has to completely rebuild. Word from the weekend is that they are willing to take on bad contracts. They have a ton of cap space including possible LTIR for guys like Kesler that they aren’t currently utilizing. Becuase of our desperate need to shed cap (along with many teams) I would want to get on it quickly and give up a lot of futures to give us flexibility. This is especially important to do now so we don’t push the ELC bonuses into next year. Baertschi and Eriksson would cost us a lot to get rid of, but the opportunity cost of not having that space could cost us a lot more and mean our team next year has far less depth than this year. Players I think we could afford to send out as sweeteners and not hurt our short term chances: Roster players: Stecher, Sutter, Benn, Demko Prospects: literally anyone aside from Hoglander and Podkolzin. Something like: Eriksson Baertschi Demko Juolevi Madden for Miller Getzlaf 50% retained Non roster pieces to even out contracts more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastPast Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Trading Juolevi AND Demko AND Madden simply for cap space. We’ve officially entered the twilight zone... This is why it is such a parroted issue ; there are people that actually think this is what is going to transpire / be necessary. Others believe otherwise and I suppose time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Provost said: You have clearly not been using capfriendly and looking forward. Have watched it very closely for years now, how it's all shaping up in the future. There is no "Canuck cap Hell", for this year or next. We all know Petey and Hughes are due after that, but that's still 1.5 years away, when many contracts will be gone and lots can and will happen between now and then. There's no pending doom like some are trying to portray it; it's nothing but fear-mongering trying to get listenership. Calgary and Edmonton were right up against it last summer and they made it somehow without ridiculous moves like giving up Virtanen just to get rid of Eriksson, such as was TMZ's laughable poll this morning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gaudette Celly said: Have watched it very closely for years now, how it's all shaping up in the future. There is no "Canuck cap Hell", for this year or next. We all know Petey and Hughes are due after that, but that's still 1.5 years away, when many contracts will be gone and lots can and will happen between now and then. There's no pending doom like some are trying to portray it; it's nothing but fear-mongering trying to get listenership. Calgary and Edmonton were right up against it last summer and they made it somehow without ridiculous moves like giving up Virtanen just to get rid of Eriksson, such as was TMZ's laughable poll this morning. Well you haven't done the math then. Capfriendly doesn't include the ELC bonuses earned, you have to do that bit yourself. Barring moving out significant dollars, we end up with a thin lineup with less depth than Edmonton has, and three seasons before we can see any light at the end of the tunnel to hope to sign anyone to fill holes. Barring moving out significant cap hits (the sooner the better for the trickle down effect), our trajectory after this year is down rather than up. You might not define that as "cap hell", but anyone with hopes of making the playoffs in the near future would. This lineup for next year is over the cap when you include the pushed ELC bonuses from this year into next and assuming there is at least a $2 million cap increase. It doesn't account for the absolute need to be UNDER the cap by between $2-4 million to pay for the ELC bonuses from next season which can't be pushed into the year when we are paying Petterson and Hughes their full contract value. It gives you zero dollars to pay for short term injury call ups. Miller-Petterson-Boeser Pearson-Horvat-Virtanen ($3 million) Roussel-Gaudette ($1.15 million)-Sutter Ferland-Beagle-Eriksson Motte ($1.15 million) -MacEwan ($975k) Edler-Stecher ($3 million) Hughes-Myers Juolevi-Benn Rafferty Markstrom ($5.5 million) Demko = about $80 million plus the $3.7 million in pushed ELCs from this year = $83.5 million to $83.7 million It is objectively a worse lineup than this year by losing very efficient dollars spent and good production from Tanev and Leivo. That defence is worse by a long shot as you have replaced two experienced NHLers in Tanev and Fantenberg with two AHLers with a combined NHL experience of 2 games. In addition, we have reduced our secondary scoring by replacing Leivo's very good production with MacEwan who won't produce much at all. If you can't find another $4 million to shave off of that above roster somehow, then the following year gets worse because you push those ELC bonuses into the following year again, and by the time you add in about $18 million for Petterson and Hughes... you will need to fill most of the roster spots with guys making an average of $1 million. We now have almost no defence, and no depth or secondary scoring in the forward group. We also have to hope that Hoglander can immediately jump in and replace Pearson's solid top 6 production, because we can't afford to go out and find a UFA. Edler will have to be gone because we won't be able to afford him even at a reduced rate. Miller-Petterson ($10 million)-Boeser Hoglander-Horvat-Virtanen ($3 million) Roussel-Gaudette ($1.15 million)-MacEwan ($975k) Ferland-Beagle-Eriksson XXX ($1 million)-XXX($1 million) Hughes ($8 million-Stecher ($3 million) Juolevi ($2 million)-Myers XXX ($1 million-XXX ($1 million) XXX ($1 million) Markstrom ($5.5 million) Demko ($2 million) = $80 million plus the pushed ELCs from 2020-21 (now including some for Juolevi) = $83.5 million - $85 million. Right at the cap from that year assuming another $2 million raise to the cap. Edited January 22, 2020 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Canucks Curse said: I would move guys like goldy, palmu, for cap space, maybe woo, I am just not high on woo, or one of the log jam Ahl d men we have- chettefiled, breezer sautner sautner + Goldy + palmu and ericcson retain $1.5 mill to Anaheim for future considerations Woo costs nothing vs the cap.... why would we trade him. A physical rhd with size and aggression who can put up points.... what's not to like about Woo's game? Baer is 3.37 and most is against our cap. With Sutter playing, do we look to move Schaller? Going into the stretch drive loaded with depth without having to make trades is a gift. The depth of this team is jaw dropping and can only help us through the season and playoffs. Been saying it since day one this year. This is a team you don't want to face going into the playoffs. Idk if you could stop this team for a series. JB could lose a bit of that depth and still be okay. No big moves, no give aways and no futures. Save that stuff for the offseason. Expiring surpluss contracts like Baer and Scahller make sense. Giving Goldy a new home too. Other than that save it for the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VforVasili Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 How many times have we crowed about other teams cap situations, only to watch them maneuver out of trouble at a far lower cost than we expected? Why would we assume Benning will achieve a worse result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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