[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, Me_ said:

It is amazing to me that the Toffoli trade happened February 17 and were still talking about the Great Madden as of 35 minutes ago.

 

That. is amazing.

 

Not really if you think about it. We've done this with Subban, Shinkaruk, Dahlin, picks we've given up, etc.

 

We Canuck fans are a special breed.

[Me_]

13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Not really if you think about it. We've done this with Subban, Shinkaruk, Dahlin, picks we've given up, etc.

 

We Canuck fans are a special breed.

I gave you a heart for capturing a seldom admitted truth.
 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Me_

[Captain Canuck #12]

And now the salary cap is going way up, we should be able to resign Toffoli, no one will regret losing Madden and all will be well again!

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

And now the salary cap is going way up, we should be able to resign Toffoli, no one will regret losing Madden and all will be well again!

Sorry, but the cap ain’t going up.  The players will not use their escalator clause to falsely increase it anymore.  Tofu is a loaner, and an expensive one at that.  IMO JB should have used Madden and that second as sweetener to dump one of our many crap contracts, like Sutter.  (it would cost more to dump Loui.)

[GhostsOf1994]

6 hours ago, coryberg said:

Dahlen has 75 points in 50 games in the same league as Karlsson (39 in 47)

Yes they are in the same league.

Since being traded to a better team Linus has put up excellent numbers, he now leads all u21 in scoring.

 

Karlskroga and timra are pretty close in the standings with timra being ahead.

 

So, lets use math to see who's on a better trajectory.

 

In 11 games he has 17 points

In 50 games dahlen has 75.

 

Lets go 5x for the 50 games Dahlen has played to calculate points total

 

So 5 x 11 = 55 gp

So 5 x 17 points = 85 points.

 

But Dahlen and Madden are waaaaaaaaay better then Karlsson, right?

 

But I'm the one $&!#ting on dahlen and madden.

 

Never said they became trash once traded, those are your words.

 

What i said was Karlsson will have a better pro hockey career then Madden.

 

Maybe Dahlen too?  do you think dahlen would be joining the sharks anytime soon? 

 

Unlikely.

 

 

6 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

Really?

So while they are prospects with us, better not slam them

As soon as they are gone slam them?

 

What happened to the, they are still young argument  to develop that we use for our players now?

Which ones on the farm are you secretly slamming now?

Never slammed them, i promote Canucks property over other teams especially when the Canucks traded them away, pretty damn sure GMJB and Saint Brackett know their scouting better then anyone on cdc.

 

 

6 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

Sick bro you used a two week sample size to prove that Karlsson is "doing better" and you don't even take in to account Maddens injury. Yeah real nice post.  4/10 

He's 150lbs, please list all the 150lb hall of famers or stanley cup champions in the last 50 years that weigh the same, I'll even give you 10lbs of wiggle room to make it interesting.

 

 

 

I'm waiting.........................

 

5 hours ago, Me_ said:

It is amazing to me that the Toffoli trade happened February 17 and were still talking about the Great Madden as of 35 minutes ago.

 

That. is amazing.

 

What.is.amazing.is.the.butthurt.over.a.150.lb.Center.when.we.have.better.options.in.the.system.

 

Please download the image, print it, fill it out and give it @Templeton Peck

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Sorry, but the cap ain’t going up.  The players will not use their escalator clause to falsely increase it anymore.  Tofu is a loaner, and an expensive one at that.  IMO JB should have used Madden and that second as sweetener to dump one of our many crap contracts, like Sutter.  (it would cost more to dump Loui.)

It is going up to 84-88M if you've watched the sports news.

[Tower102]

6 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

It is going up to 84-88M if you've watched the sports news.

That is such a huge difference, I would definitely count on it being 84-85. If the Canucks get good value out of resigning their UFA's and RFA's, and can get rid of 1 contract (Baer, Benn, Sutter, Beagle, Rousell, Eriksson) then they will be able to bring back everyone (Tanev, Markstrom, Taffoli, Stetcher, Fantenberg?). I could see Stetcher and/or Fantenberg being allowed to walk if we feel Rafferty and Juolevi will be ready next year. Right now it seems like Markstrom is required with our record without him, Taffoli has been playing great with the team, and Tanev has been so good with Hughes. I think Benn would be relatively easy to get rid of, don't think we need both Beagle and Sutter and while they don't offer great value, I also don't see them as overly difficult to trade.

[Junkyard Dog]

3 minutes ago, Tower102 said:

That is such a huge difference, I would definitely count on it being 84-85. If the Canucks get good value out of resigning their UFA's and RFA's, and can get rid of 1 contract (Baer, Benn, Sutter, Beagle, Rousell, Eriksson) then they will be able to bring back everyone (Tanev, Markstrom, Taffoli, Stetcher, Fantenberg?). I could see Stetcher and/or Fantenberg being allowed to walk if we feel Rafferty and Juolevi will be ready next year. Right now it seems like Markstrom is required with our record without him, Taffoli has been playing great with the team, and Tanev has been so good with Hughes. I think Benn would be relatively easy to get rid of, don't think we need both Beagle and Sutter and while they don't offer great value, I also don't see them as overly difficult to trade.

Sutter/Baer/Benn have 1 year left so they'd be easier. If Eriksson retired that would be awesome too.

 

Would love us to sign everybody besides maybe not Stecher/Fanta and bring in a solid defenseman in the top 6. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

5 goals in 7 games so far, honestly if Toffoli re-signs and stays on our top line for a full season I think he'd hit 40 goals. Miller is in his prime and Pettersson will be better and tougher next season, Toffoli could be in for a real treat playing on our 1st line and 1st PP unit. Boeser drops down to our 2nd line and in a few years time replaces Toffoli.

[coryberg]

9 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Yes they are in the same league.

Since being traded to a better team Linus has put up excellent numbers, he now leads all u21 in scoring.

 

Karlskroga and timra are pretty close in the standings with timra being ahead.

 

So, lets use math to see who's on a better trajectory.

 

In 11 games he has 17 points

In 50 games dahlen has 75.

 

Lets go 5x for the 50 games Dahlen has played to calculate points total

 

So 5 x 11 = 55 gp

So 5 x 17 points = 85 points.

 

But Dahlen and Madden are waaaaaaaaay better then Karlsson, right?

 

But I'm the one $&!#ting on dahlen and madden.

 

Never said they became trash once traded, those are your words.

 

What i said was Karlsson will have a better pro hockey career then Madden.

 

Maybe Dahlen too?  do you think dahlen would be joining the sharks anytime soon? 

 

Unlikely.

 

First of all I was simply helping you out. You asked how dahlen was doing and I showed you his stat line. You quoted my entire post and its plain to see I never called anyone trash at all. In fact if you go back to the Dahlen/Karlsson trade thread you will see that I supported the deal citing additude, age, skating, size, defensive awareness, position and club control as reasons why I liked Karlsson better.

 

As for your calculations you would be better served to take his PPG average over those 11 games (17÷11=1.5454545455) and multiply it by the 50 games Dahlen has played. You would get 77 points. Small sample sizes compared to large hardly ever translate but if you are trying to prove a point you shouldn't take the lazy route and round up in your favor.

 

Cheers!

[billabong]

5.5m/5yrs for toffoli? Who says no? 
 

I honestly think the Canucks have a serious shot keeping him around Because his wife works for the dodgers and he probably ain’t a fit with the rest of the pacific division and Vancouver is only 2 hour flight away

 

the Canucks will move baertschi for sure and maybe sutter and/eriksson 

 

miller-pettersson-toffoli

pearson-horvat-boeser

 

thats a pretty good top 6 for next year 

[Nave]

Really hope we sign Toffoli. He's been great for us.

[Kanukfanatic]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

Sorry, but the cap ain’t going up.  The players will not use their escalator clause to falsely increase it anymore.  Tofu is a loaner, and an expensive one at that.  IMO JB should have used Madden and that second as sweetener to dump one of our many crap contracts, like Sutter.  (it would cost more to dump Loui.)

You have no idea if what you say is true.

 

You also said OJ would be better than Rasmus Dahlin haha.  Wow...that was a good one!!

[Junkyard Dog]

55 minutes ago, billabong said:

5.5m/5yrs for toffoli? Who says no? 
 

I honestly think the Canucks have a serious shot keeping him around Because his wife works for the dodgers and he probably ain’t a fit with the rest of the pacific division and Vancouver is only 2 hour flight away

 

the Canucks will move baertschi for sure and maybe sutter and/eriksson 

 

miller-pettersson-toffoli

pearson-horvat-boeser

 

thats a pretty good top 6 for next year 

I'd try for 5.5 for 4 years but the price is right.

[Alflives]

Just now, Kanukfanatic said:

You have no idea if what you say is true.

 

You also said OJ would be better than Rasmus Dahlin haha.  Wow...that was a good one!!

Read ‘em and weep.  My straight flush beats your three of a kind.  You bottom dealer you.  

 

“The current salary cap system and escrow went into effect in 2005, after the lost season and the first salary cap. Things were tweeked in 2013, but that mainly changed the percentage of Hockey-Related-Revenue given to the players, and some of the free agency rules. While the calculations were changed, the system for dealing with them, escrow remained intact. With a rising salary cap (due to the escalator clause), teams are giving players larger contracts, but revenues are not keeping up. Because of this, players are losing more than 10 percent of their annual salaries through escrow. The NHLPA could have used the escalator clause to raise the salary cap to $83 million this off-season but opted not to. The thing on their minds was to reduce the escrow percentage.”

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/09/08/escrow-big-issue-for-nhlpa-in-cba-negotiations/

 

OJ is better than Dahlin.  I said before at tennis.  Post where I said it was hockey.  

[Alflives]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I'd try for 5.5 for 4 years but the price is right.

Signing Tofu would be great.  So would getting Marky and Tanev done.  Where does the money come from though?  Has anyone done a clear breakdown of our cap for next year, because the last one I saw here showed we had no room for these guys.

if someone can prove otherwise, I’d be excited for July 1.  

[GhostsOf1994]

2 hours ago, coryberg said:

First of all I was simply helping you out. You asked how dahlen was doing and I showed you his stat line. You quoted my entire post and its plain to see I never called anyone trash at all. In fact if you go back to the Dahlen/Karlsson trade thread you will see that I supported the deal citing additude, age, skating, size, defensive awareness, position and club control as reasons why I liked Karlsson better.

 

As for your calculations you would be better served to take his PPG average over those 11 games (17÷11=1.5454545455) and multiply it by the 50 games Dahlen has played. You would get 77 points. Small sample sizes compared to large hardly ever translate but if you are trying to prove a point you shouldn't take the lazy route and round up in your favor.

 

Cheers!

HAAY @coryberg

 

I was drunk and reading my post i fink i did pretty good

 

Didnt mean to single you out, it was a reply t everyone i quoted that replied to what i had said.

 

Apologies Mr.Cory Berg

 

No slight was intended to you!

 

 

Let me clarify: i don't think Madden will contribute more in the NHL or any other pro league more than Karlsson.

 

Dahlen was traded for Karlsson, His trajectory looks to be better. Dahlen even had Petey setting him up for a year and didn't break over a PPG.

 

and i highly doubt there's another young stud as good as Petterson setting Karlsson up to collect points.

 

Dahlen born in 97 5"11 weighs 180 a winger leftie ( remember when people said he was too small?)

Madden born in 99 5"10 152lbs a rightie C

Karlsson born in 99 6"1 183 a rightie C

 

This is many years ago, i may be wrong.

 

Didn't John Madden, Tyler's father have issues with being a little husky ? Now his son has issues being too light? Weird huh

[GhostsOf1994]

23 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You have no idea if what you say is true.

 

You also said OJ would be better than Rasmus Dahlin haha.  Wow...that was a good one!!

How the hell did you get off my blocked list?

[Tower102]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Signing Tofu would be great.  So would getting Marky and Tanev done.  Where does the money come from though?  Has anyone done a clear breakdown of our cap for next year, because the last one I saw here showed we had no room for these guys.

if someone can prove otherwise, I’d be excited for July 1.  

Ya, I played around with capfriendly for next year. I put the cap at 84 million so the bottom of the projection. It obviously depends what our UFA and RFA's sign for. Here is what I did:

 

Toffoli at 5.5m (I think this is fair, but he could get up to 6-6.5 on the high end)

Markstrom at 5.5m (could leverage our poor performance without him and get 6m, but he hasn't been super consistent over his career)

Tanev at 5m (maybe he argues to get the Myers 6m, but with his injury past I think we could argue him at 5)

Virtanen at 3.4m (used Kapanen as a comparable but slightly lower)

Gaudette at 1.25m (used Virtanen's last contract as a comparable)

Stetcher at 2.3m (same as this year, if its higher we drop him)

 

I traded Baer and Sutter for no roster pieces and we have 2.35 m in cap space. If the top 3 go for higher, we could look at trading Benn to get rid of his 2m or we drop stetcher and bring in rafferty. 

 

So... it is not a given we can fit them all but it certainly is possible if we negotiate well and get rid of a couple contracts. It would become easy if Eriksson retires or mutually terminates his contract and or the cap is nearer the high end of the projection. Ferland and his health also will make a difference, my projected roster had him slot into the 4th line for Sutter. If he is unhealthy and remains on LTIR or retires than that is an additional 3.5m off the books.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Tower102

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Tower102 said:

Ya, I played around with capfriendly for next year. I put the cap at 84 million so the bottom of the projection. It obviously depends what our UFA and RFA's sign for. Here is what I did:

 

Toffoli at 5.5m (I think this is fair, but he could get up to 6-6.5 on the high end)

Markstrom at 5.5m (could leverage our poor performance without him and get 6m, but he hasn't been super consistent over his career)

Tanev at 5m (maybe he argues to get the Myers 6m, but with his injury past I think we could argue him at 5)

Virtanen at 3.4m (used Kapanen as a comparable but slightly lower)

Gaudette at 1.25m (used Virtanen's last contract as a comparable)

Stetcher at 2.3m (same as this year, if its higher we drop him)

 

I traded Baer and Sutter for no roster pieces and we have 2.35 m in cap space. If the top 3 go for higher, we could look at trading Benn to get rid of his 2m or we drop stetcher and bring in rafferty. 

 

So... it is not a given we can fit them all but it certainly is possible if we negotiate well and get rid of a couple contracts. It would become easy if Eriksson retires or mutually terminates his contract and or the cap is nearer the high end of the projection. Ferland and his health also will make a difference, my projected roster had him slot into the 4th line for Sutter. If he is unhealthy and remains on LTIR or retires than that is an additional 3.5m off the books.

Thanks for figuring that all out.  We could be pretty good if we can keep our guys, and add Bone and Hoglander on ELC’s.  Sure would LOVE to dump Loui.  That’s so key too, isn’t it?