Draft #6

[70seven]

Perliini reminds me alot of Jensen actually, skilled, fast big forward.

Ive been thinking the same thing. Both larger guys who use their size to protect the puck and win board battles. Little to none in the way of aggressive physicality without the puck.

[Warhippy]

Is that you Trevor? You come off all sanctimonious like your word is gospel. I came on to offer a what if, just hypothetical, not the spoken word. These forums are for all to use as I see you just waiting, lurking to give your morning diatribe. I'm the lucky one today I suppose. Now we can all go amongst our business now that we've been educated by someone who averages 138 posts a week, seriously! That makes you the man & me the student doesn't it, get a life! What do you do in your spare time, hunt bunnies?

People come on because we like our Canucks but people like you with small minds & small ideas will never see tomorrow for what it is, you're just busy living in the past.

Now I'm going to sign off this silly CDC thing as someone of your calibre has scared me back into my moms basement. Bring on your calculated response however, let it be said I gave you your chance to shine today! You're probably dancing around your basement naked singing to the Village People thinking "boy I sure got that guy". Imagine that, me living in my past with a reference to 1978... now go live in yours & enjoy. Just think of how much education you have coming!

i cry

[Daretodream]

At 6th pick- Nylander

This guy could end up being the best pick in the draft. His composure, patience, vision and skill with the puck are unbelievable. He's got 1st line future player written all over him. This is the type of player the Nucks need. He's not only good but he's entertaining. With proper coaching and maturity this kid will be awesome. Hopefully we can trade Kesler or edler and pick up another top 12 pick either this year or next. There's a lot of good players in this draft. I think this draft is very underrated

[SamJamIam]

Perliini reminds me alot of Jensen actually, skilled, fast big forward.

Isn't that a bit of a slight against Perlini given that we snagged Jensen at 29th?

[Angry Goose]

Isn't that a bit of a slight against Perlini given that we snagged Jensen at 29th?

No not at all, Perlini could very well end up being a much better player than Jensen- who knows. I just thought the way they play the game is very similar. Not really guys who crash and bang but have the size, speed and skill be tough on the puck, quick release with their shot, etc.

H

[Honky Cat]

Nylander ..11 pts in 4 games at the U 18s...

[CanuckleHorse]

Nylander ..11 pts in 4 games at the U 18s...

How many of those points did he score against Canada i see a big zero by his name out played by Jake Virtanen 2 goals so dont get duped by those numbers when it gets rough he is like most Euros a none factor.

[Canuck Surfer]

How many of those points did he score against Canada i see a big zero by his name out played by Jake Virtanen 2 goals so dont get duped by those numbers when it gets rough he is like most Euros a none factor.

Euro soft is a fallacy.

Zetterburg, Malkin and Lidstrom are all Conn Smythe playoff MVP's from recent memory. Kurri, Forsburg and Datsyuk also come to mind. I'd also suggest Jagr made some plays which influenced cups his teams won?

Never mind talent players, historically there have been plenty of tough as nails Euro role players as well. Tikanen and Holmstrom were as tough, competitive and feisty as they come! Markus Kruger is Nylander's size and plays as hard as anyone.

Scout the players, not your own prejudices.

[Canuck Surfer]

It's easy.

Skill first, then size.

Rank everyone based on pure skill and vision. Take the top 50 of those. Then select the 10 who have shown the size, strength, and physicality to push around smaller players and at least perform close to their standard against bigger players. Then look at attitude, real examples of "heart," leadership experience, sacrifice, team play, pedigree, coachability, and the teammates around him (ie who is making who look good?). You probably have a list of 5 or 6 players and one will certainly be available at #6.

Crosby, Datsyuk, Kane, Toews, Bergeron, Sedins (prime). None are big guys but all can be game changers with big guys all around them.

Skill first, overall athleticism 2knd, then size.

Size matters little if you don't have the speed to keep up, or have the puff to compete at NHL pace. Even PF's who get it, say Bertuzzi, often take years before they learn how to train a big body to play at NHL pace. Kassian has also taken years, and may just be finding a pace where he can use his speed and strength to his advantage. Without running out of puff at inopportune times. He always had the speed and strength. Its not a knock, it exhausts more energy to move a big body at high intensity. I'd be taking an EXTREMELY close look at the combine fitness testing, notably the VO2 max and agility, before I selected a guy at #6 based on size alone.

But Gaunce for example, blew those tests off the charts. He may not have the peak NHL speed of some speedsters, but it does suggest he can probably skate all day and compete. Draisaitl is also reported to be lacking top speed. But he also is supposed to be deceptively quick, extremely agile and has a rare strength (think Jagr) to hold off one, even two defenders, and still have the skill control to make plays under extreme duress. Even at the end of shifts when playing big minutes. Its not just speed, but strength, agility and endurance. It means something?

Nylander looks a compelling "safe" pick to me. He clearly has NHL agilty, speed, skills..., and he's big enough (compared to Ehlers) to compete. Bigger than Giroux for example who is still listed at 172 lbs. If Virtanen or Ritchie score high on the fitness tests like Gaunce, I probably pick them as size does matter. But if they can't get up to speed at the combines I make the safe pick.

[Smashian Kassian]

Skill first, overall athleticism 2knd, then size.

Size matters little if you don't have the speed to keep up, or have the puff to compete at NHL pace. Even PF's who get it, say Bertuzzi, often take years before they learn how to train a big body to play at NHL pace. Kassian has also taken years, and may just be finding a pace where he can use his speed and strength to his advantage. Without running out of puff at inopportune times. He always had the speed and strength. Its not a knock, it exhausts more energy to move a big body at high intensity. I'd be taking an EXTREMELY close look at the combine fitness testing, notably the VO2 max and agility, before I selected a guy at #6 based on size alone.

But Gaunce for example, blew those tests off the charts. He may not have the peak NHL speed of some speedsters, but it does suggest he can probably skate all day and compete. Draisaitl is also reported to be lacking top speed. But he also is supposed to be deceptively quick, extremely agile and has a rare strength (think Jagr) to hold off one, even two defenders, and still have the skill control to make plays under extreme duress. Even at the end of shifts when playing big minutes. Its not just speed, but strength, agility and endurance. It means something?

Nylander looks a compelling "safe" pick to me. He clearly has NHL agilty, speed, skills..., and he's big enough (compared to Ehlers) to compete. Bigger than Giroux for example who is still listed at 172 lbs. If Virtanen or Ritchie score high on the fitness tests like Gaunce, I probably pick them as size does matter. But if they can't get up to speed at the combines I make the safe pick.

Actually I think Ehlers is bigger than Nylander, or they are almost the same (Nylander may have a few pounds on Ehlers - who I think will test around 170 at the combine - but Ehlers is a bit taller) and I think he has more compete in his game, more willingness to go to the dirty areas, and I have a feeling his game translates better to NA.

[Bo Horvat]

Size doesn't matter as much as skill, I agree. However, when you can find players with both, especially when this team plays in a conference with big skilled players, it's just silly to draft smaller skilled players who will get eaten alive.

[NucksCup2015]

Size doesn't matter as much as skill, I agree. However, when you can find players with both, especially when this team plays in a conference with big skilled players, it's just silly to draft smaller skilled players who will get eaten alive.

yes exactly. but the problem with this draft is the depth of it even at 6 says we may end up having to take chance that a smaller guy can handle the bigger league because of his skill and speed

or a bigger guy can translate his lower skill but size and speed to the nhl...

no sure things, this is why this draft will be very interesting, i will expect there will be some steals and busts in this one and a number off the board picks this year as there really is little consensus after the top 4-5 players

[NucksCup2015]

One thing to also note folks

Granted we can't assume all our prospects make it but, prospect wise we do have size already

Kassian

Jensen

Horvat

Fox

Gaunce

Archibald

Matthias

Grenier

Lain

are all 'heavy players' and Cassels has enough size and grit to compete

we can fit a smaller skilled player into that group , so those arguing size size size! look at our future lineup first before you assume we don't have the group to compete in conference where size does matter...because remember, whomever we draft with this high pick, likely won't be in the lineup for 2-4 years, and may be the player we need to replace Hank.....

[BanTSN]

Kassian - 20g upside

Jensen - Doesn't play physical

Horvat - Shutdown

Fox - Pest

Gaunce - 3rd/4th line C.

Archibald - Grinder

Matthias - 3rd/4th line C.

Grenier - Grinder

Lain - Grinder

These guys are really good to have down the road, don't get me wrong. But to go for an undersized forward just because we have these guys is strange. You don't need to be undersized to have skill for starters. And the small forwards in this draft won't be difference-makers. If we really wanted to acquire some real elite talent, not undersized talent, then we should just do what we did this season next season, except a bit better.

But what you're saying kinda means we don't need Ritchie, and i'd agree with that.

[Odjickwillkillyou]

I would be happy if we somehow draft Draisaitl and then trade down a few picks to land Tuch. This kid is huge and is only going to get bigger and better with time and the right tutelage. 6 is a bit high for Tuch, but he may have more physical upside down the road then both Ritchie and Virtanen.

Please do not tell 1SportsLover1 that I said that about Virtanen as I fear his potential backlash.

[Gollumpus]

Attempt to draft McDavid this year and hope nobody remembers that he is not eligible until next year

Sneaky. I like it.

regards,

G.

[Honky Cat]

I've been flip flopping over a number of picks..but I am starting to think Nylander would be the best fit here...He is a center,.1C potential.the kind of player you could build a line around..He also has elite stick handling capabilities..I also think he will add a lot more muscle than Ehlers down the stretch...

[Canuck Surfer]

Kassian - 20g upside

Jensen - Doesn't play physical

Horvat - Shutdown

Fox - Pest

Gaunce - 3rd/4th line C.

Archibald - Grinder

Matthias - 3rd/4th line C.

Grenier - Grinder

Lain - Grinder

These guys are really good to have down the road, don't get me wrong. But to go for an undersized forward just because we have these guys is strange. You don't need to be undersized to have skill for starters. And the small forwards in this draft won't be difference-makers. If we really wanted to acquire some real elite talent, not undersized talent, then we should just do what we did this season next season, except a bit better.

But what you're saying kinda means we don't need Ritchie, and i'd agree with that.

I think size and athleticism was a bigger problem on our depth lines than up front.

Our problem was we had stretches where our 3rd and 4th lines did not really accomplish anything. It was such a relief to see Richardson take over as 3C with Booth and Kassian. He sort of added the "glue" Burrows does for the Twins. Fore-checked, dug in the corners, won pucks and still had some moxy. The line came together and was impressive at the end of the year.

Before that neither Kassian nor Booth found their place. So what size we had went underutilized. Booth even got sat for Weise or Sestito.

For a time we had a Richardson, Santorelli and Hansen as a 3rd line. They were pesky, won their roles, but the line was seriously undersized as a defensive specialty unit.

In the end, all year we never iced any line that was dominant physically. In speed, or in size.

You could add Ritchie for size and it WOULD help, or Nylander for speed, and either could help up the ante as to how we win match ups.

[NucksCup2015]

Kassian - 20g upside

Jensen - Doesn't play physical

Horvat - Shutdown

Fox - Pest

Gaunce - 3rd/4th line C.

Archibald - Grinder

Matthias - 3rd/4th line C.

Grenier - Grinder

Lain - Grinder

These guys are really good to have down the road, don't get me wrong. But to go for an undersized forward just because we have these guys is strange. You don't need to be undersized to have skill for starters. And the small forwards in this draft won't be difference-makers. If we really wanted to acquire some real elite talent, not undersized talent, then we should just do what we did this season next season, except a bit better.

But what you're saying kinda means we don't need Ritchie, and i'd agree with that.

no im not saying that im saying we have size, so drafting size for the sake of it is unecessary. In addition, you say they aren't game breakers? Nylander has arguably been said to have the most skill in the draft, Ehler is certainly top 5 in skill as well...issue is as you say, size...no one ever wants a 5'11 player for some stupid reason. Why did Eberle fall? Size. I am sure anyone if they had the chance to draft Eberle today would do so top 5 in heart beat.

As to your other points

Kassian can drop them with anyone sir and on top of that he's using his size to physically dominate players now and create chances in the open ice and along the wall that's why size matters - ability to fight through

Jensen has the size to fight through

Horvat has the size / will to fight through

Grenier - size to fight through and umm not a grinder please look at his AHL totals he had 40 pts this year, in his first real year in the league...will only improve

Guance second / third liner with skill and size

We're not finding cam neely in this draft man (ie a guy that hits like a freight train, fights and can score 50, if that was available it wouldn't be at #6)

Point is we have alot of young size right now with talent but they are just a few years away. At the time we'll need an elite skilled player (Henrik is done) the player we draft this year should be ready

A team is not made up of clones, you need size, speed, skill and aggresiveness, few players have all those in one (ie Bert/Neely/Hopefully Kassian).

If you think undersized players cant dominate the nhl guys like Kane, Kariya, Gallagher, Fleury, St Louis say hello. Moreover, none of the 'european talents' people are discussing are even that small

I didnt see many people saying Shinkaruk's size is going to be an impediment after seeing how he performed in the preseason did you?

Size for the sake of size is pointless. You can't teach speed or talent. If you can get a guy of equivalent speed and talent with size, sure you take that player. But if there are questions on talent/hockey iq/skill, take the kid with skill if he's not a 'undersized' and again the two players people are talking about are not undersized simply th same size as Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman were...and from what I can tell they didn't seem to be bad players.

Its also alot easier to draft / sign a two way guy with size and 15-20 goal capability in the 2nd and 3rd rounds than it is to find elite talent.

Its about using your draft position wisely. Elite talent is seldom found later, size is easily found. Get an Ehlers/Nylander and put a Kassian/Jensen on his wing and then find another big forward (even if he's only a 15 goal guy who hits and creates room) and you have one hell of a line

Naslund/Morrison/Bert was one of the most feared lines in hockey history in the past 15 years. Naslund and Morrison were not big.

Again, its about a 'team'

Shinkaruk Horvat Jensen

Fox Nylander Kassian

Guance Cassels Matthias

Archibald Lain Winger

I have no issue with those top two lines and you can't tell me there is not enough size there and expect to be credible - that's bigger than our existing lineup lol

[DrChill]

Euro soft is a fallacy.

Zetterburg, Malkin and Lidstrom are all Conn Smythe playoff MVP's from recent memory. Kurri, Forsburg and Datsyuk also come to mind. I'd also suggest Jagr made some plays which influenced cups his teams won?

Never mind talent players, historically there have been plenty of tough as nails Euro role players as well. Tikanen and Holmstrom were as tough, competitive and feisty as they come! Markus Kruger is Nylander's size and plays as hard as anyone.

Scout the players, not your own prejudices.

Thank you