Botchford: Do the Canucks want to be "true" cup contenders or do they simply want to make playoffs as soon as possible?

[JeremyCuddles]

We just need to stop drafting bums, too much to ask of Gillis apparently. Except last years draft where he decided to draft decent players. If we can make smart draft decisions we don't need top 10's or even Top 5's.

[oldnews]

There is no simple either/or here.

The Canucks want to make the playoffs next year, and regain contender status asap.

The common logic that you need to step backwards in order to get better isn't always as wise as it sounds, and it's not a necessary course - there are more than one way to go about it - and every team could stand to upgrade in 2 or 3 positions.

The biggest upgrade the team can use will come behind the bench.

There is more youth emerging than there has been in a long time.

Just keep working to get better - and to make the playoffs every year and give yourself a chance. Sustaining a winning culture imo is more important than dwelling on (symantics) regarding retools, rebuilds, blah, blah. You take one step at a time regardless, and do whatever you can to improve the team. Pretenses about grand plans are a waste of time imo.

[Warhippy]

And that's the real problem here. Gillis saddled us with multiple contracts that will cripple the team's chances to compete if they aren't dealt with:

• Edler is making 5 million dollars a year to be a complete liability out there.
• The Sedins will need to have a huge bounce-back season to avoid being massively overpaid. Daniel hasn't been the same since Keith delivered the cheapshot.
• Burrows is good, but overpaid given his likely production going forward
• We're still eating $800,000 of Luongo's contract. While this may seem small, it can be the difference between bringing in a quality 3rd liner and a guy making league min.

This is just too much bad salary to overcome over the short term.

a complete liability...

Come on Heff

[King Heffy]

a complete liability...

Come on Heff

In what world is a defenseman who can't play defense and didn't even need a full season to post a league worst -39 NOT a complete liability?

[Warhippy]

In what world is a defenseman who can't play defense and didn't even need a full season to post a league worst -39 NOT a complete liability?

his worst year. Under 30 years old, making far less $ than most other d men who have terrible years year after year after year.

Your hate is showing far too much for you to be credible.

[Jack Fig]

In what world is a defenseman who can't play defense and didn't even need a full season to post a league worst -39 NOT a complete liability?

He's not helping the team win hockey games, that's for sure.

[etsen3]

Such a selfish stupid thing to say. Also off base.

Lets ask the owners to forego tens of millions in play off revenue because some closet "fan's" think tanking is the route to become a contender. Lets ask the season ticket holders to pay full bottle but watch AHL calibre squads ala Buffalo, but stay on board until the good times roll around again. I suppose you would subsidize their anti-depressants?

The reality is we're not so strong a hockey market that people don't abandon their season tickets when the product sulks. It's already and suddenly a tough sell now, imagine in full bottle blowouts day by day? Its not just the play off revenue. I doubt that few if any of you calling for a tank actually buy any more than an occasional ticket.

That worked so well for us in the 70's and 80's for us as example one. As odd as it sounds, thank god for John McCaw who absorbed $50 mill plus losses in some years to get us to the point we could float again.

Look how well that worked in example two and three, when currency was not so high, for the old Nordiques and Jets? In example 4, look how well it works for Florida, who cant afford to pay for anything except a few ELC's and overpay some dorks that would rather sit on the beach in anonymity than be accountable to win any games.

Ah yes, the Nordiques who tanked just long enough they could convert top draft picks Owen Nolan, Matts Sundin, Eric Lindros (Forsburg), and Sakic into ultimate glory! The ultimate ticket to how many cups?

There are some absolute fracking geniuses on here!

I don't think we will have to completely suck in order to rebuild. Our core players still have enough value that we could get good young players that could step in right away or within 1-2 years. We could also free up some salary cap space to pick up some big pieces via free agency. But if we just stick with bandaid solutions for now and wait a few years until our team is completely run into the ground, we will not only be a bottom feeding team, we won't get much back via trade and we'll be stuck with overpriced contracts.

I feel like making changes now is the best way to AVOID a tank, or at least shorten the tank period. I don't think we have enough prospects to can carry a team a few years from now, but if we trade some of our core, we could easily build a strong team that's on the upswing rather than the downswing. Because if we aren't productive and just let this core run it's course we will be likely be so bad that we won't have the option of whether to tank for high draft picks or not.

[King Heffy]

his worst year. Under 30 years old, making far less $ than most other d men who have terrible years year after year after year.

Your hate is showing far too much for you to be credible.

Who are these mysterious defensemen who have terrible years every year and make more than Edler?

[peaches5]

Who saw the Rangers shutting down Crosby and Montreal embarassing Boston?

Anything can happen in the playoffs thanks to good coaching and matchups. Sure the West seems fixed with these playoff performing teams constantly ending up at the Finals, but the Canucks match up VERY well against Chicago and the other teams in their division like St. Louis and even Colorado.

If we can squeak into the playoffs, thanks to the new format we might not have to play a Californian team for a while. If we end up with a 1st round matchup against say Chicago or St. Louis, the Canucks are actually a favourite in that situation (I know Chicago look amazing right now but we've had their number of late, I believe the only team that has a winning record against them ). We know San Jose is likely to blow itself up so they may not slaughter us anymore with their new team as well, so if we get a 2nd round match up against them and a 3rd round match up against say St. Louis (who we actually dominated even last season) we could go deep.

Match-ups are everything, and so is a season's worth of turn around. Last year the Rangers missed the playoffs - they got a new coach, made some BIG trades at the deadline and now they're in the Finals. If they can do it, the Canucks can too.

I definitely saw the rangers shutting down crosby and malkin I did not however see montreal beating boston.

[Honky Cat]

Selfish? In what way?

I look at this as a fan, because that's what I am...not an owner. But to tend to the issue of playoff revenue, an owner has the option to hire smart people who have patience and build with the big picture in mind and then make the playoffs every year and voila....playoff revenue. Have the foresight to hire the right people and let them do their job. Hire a dolt like Mike Gillis who has no concept of player development and you deserve what you get.

14 teams miss the playoffs every year, so there are lots of fans out there every year disappointed that their team didn't make the playoffs. The Canucks missed the playoffs this season...I'm still here, as are you. Spare me the overreaction.

Who said anything about tanking? You build. Take stock of what you have and go forward. Build your organization up to be strong year after year after year after year. The Canucks are not in a good spot right now, but I expect we will be a year from now. And even better a year after that. Again, put smart, diligent people in charge and you don't have to worry about being a lousy team. Keep your panic to yourself.

So playoffs are the real answer huh? After 9 seasons of missing the playoffs, the Leafs finally made them in 2013. Hallelujah! The Promised Land! Everybody exhale. But then they miss the playoffs again in 2014. Uh-oh. Now where are they? Do they rebuild after their one big year?

The playoffs are great if you are a good team and have the chance to make noise. That's worthwhile. That's exciting. If you only sneak in every second year as some kind of hanger-on, you're nowhere. But the playoffs as some kind of goal? Pointless. It's like wanting to be average. Like striving to be a C student.

Works for you? Great. I say no thanks. I have the patience to take some short-term pain for long-term gain. I've seen this before and with Linden and Benning, I'm fine to align behind them because I have confidence in them.

The playoffs are just a step along the way.

Agreed...No fans here are advocating a losing culture,but the fact remains that this team is at the end of its cycle (as far as core players)...Unfortunately you have to take a step backwards,before you can go forwards...Hopefully,with Benning ,he'll find us some shortcuts along the way.

[westcoast]

I agree with him 100%

[canuckrelevantname]

First and foremost I'd like to say I'm a Canuck fan. Always have been and always will be.

However, I'm also a huge hockey fan - I watch a great number of games involving a great number of teams that neither don blue nor green.

Maybe it's that I've lost faith in our core, maybe it's that I watch too much non-Canuck hockey and I've become jaded, but substantial changes need to be made.

Re-tooling won't cut it. The teams that currently compete for the cup are simply far better than we are - not simply with their star players, but even their complementary casts. This is my opinion. And while I do agree that Botchford is often way off the mark and that much of what he writes is sensational dribble - there may be something to be said for this particular musing.

[Provost]

I guess looking at the Oilers blinded you to the Penguins, Blackhawks, Avs and Lightning.

You need to look into the details there my friend. The only two of those who won the Cup combined long stretches of futility COMBINED with an incredibly lucky break. If you think the best plan to win a Cup is to suck badly, and then hope for a 5-10% chance to win the draft lottery like they did AND happen to win it in a year when there is a true elite player to pick.... then you are really hoping a lot of things happen to fall into place.

Penguins - Got Crosby based on a one-off "special" lottery system that year due to the lockout shortened season. They had a 6% chance of getting the #1 pick and managed to get it. Change that system and/or lose that lottery... they don't win the Cup.

Blackhawks - Won the lottery and moved up the maximum 4 spots from their 5th pick to #1 to select Kane. They had about an 8% chance of getting that #1 pick. Without winning the lottery, they don't win the Cup

Avs - Haven't won the Cup in the salary cap era (won it in 1996), haven't had much success at all since then For some reason you consider them making the playoffs this year as success of the model? They have made the playoffs I think two times since 2004. Hardly a resounding success.

Lightning - Haven't won the Cup in the salary cap era (won it in 2004). When they did win it, they had top 10 picks in 11 of the 12 previous seasons... a record of futility that no one wants to match.

[messier's_elbow]

CDC collective > Botchford

Gallagher>Botchford...now thats saying something.

[messier's_elbow]

You cant win the Grail without a stud puck moving dman in this league. We should trade Kesler for Pouliot if Pens are interested.

[messier's_elbow]

Hmm I actually agree with Botch on this one. With the exception of Kesler, all of our core is over 30 years old. There is no competing core as old as ours.

Yes, anything can happen in the playoffs, but some make it seem as if it's a crapshoot. Watch any of the playoff series and you'll know that the Canucks are too slow, not nearly enough skilled, and are not nearly as physical. On top of that, we are thin on depth so if a couple guys go down, well that's pretty much game over. Maybe our goaltending can steal a couple games for us? Neither goaltenders have proven to be consistent enough.

Imagine just one down year next year, we can pick up a high caliber legit 1c that we do not currently have. By July of 2015, we can have a new group of guys that all have the potential to be part of the new core. And then we will have a core that will be competing for years, and we just have to find the right pieces to put around the core

My question is, does anyone actually think the team will be legitimate contenders next year?

I agree. Trade Kesler for quality young pieces and then get a good pick in a stacked 2015 draft, then take a run again in 2016 when Kassian, Horvat and Jensen are ready for top 6 minutes.

[messier's_elbow]

You need to look into the details there my friend. The only two of those who won the Cup combined long stretches of futility COMBINED with an incredibly lucky break. If you think the best plan to win a Cup is to suck badly, and then hope for a 5-10% chance to win the draft lottery like they did AND happen to win it in a year when there is a true elite player to pick.... then you are really hoping a lot of things happen to fall into place.

Penguins - Got Crosby based on a one-off "special" lottery system that year due to the lockout shortened season. They had a 6% chance of getting the #1 pick and managed to get it. Change that system and/or lose that lottery... they don't win the Cup.

Blackhawks - Won the lottery and moved up the maximum 4 spots from their 5th pick to #1 to select Kane. They had about an 8% chance of getting that #1 pick. Without winning the lottery, they don't win the Cup

Avs - Haven't won the Cup in the salary cap era (won it in 1996), haven't had much success at all since then For some reason you consider them making the playoffs this year as success of the model? They have made the playoffs I think two times since 2004. Hardly a resounding success.

Lightning - Haven't won the Cup in the salary cap era (won it in 2004). When they did win it, they had top 10 picks in 11 of the 12 previous seasons... a record of futility that no one wants to match.

I think they won it in 2000 as well. They definitely won 2 cups.

[Brocklovich]

Yeah they won with hartly as coach in 2000 or 2001

[Canuck Surfer]

Agreed...No fans here are advocating a losing culture,but the fact remains that this team is at the end of its cycle (as far as core players)...Unfortunately you have to take a step backwards,before you can go forwards...Hopefully,with Benning ,he'll find us some shortcuts along the way.

Yeah righto...

Ditch the Sedin;s, Kesler and Edler, message of tanking philosophers. Your line up will have trouble playing Buffalo.

FTR the teams that want the Sedin's aint giving us picks that will score McDavid. Nor are they sending back battle hardened top line veterans.

Higgins / Mathias / Kassian

Burrows / Horvat / Jensen

Booth / Richardson / Hansen

Sestito / Lain / Gaunce

People would crave having Hodgson back...

I repeat: Genius!

[Tearloch7]

Yeah righto...

Ditch the Sedin;s, Kesler and Edler, message of tanking philosophers. Your line up will have trouble playing Buffalo.

FTR the teams that want the Sedin's aint giving us picks that will score McDavid. Nor are they sending back battle hardened top line veterans.

Higgins / Mathias / Kassian

Burrows / Horvat / Jensen

Booth / Richardson / Hansen

Sestito / Lain / Gaunce

People would crave having Hodgson back...

I repeat: Genius!

A scary thought ..