Longtime Fan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 hours ago, keredz said: Virtanen is still really raw, junior for the rest of the year and AHL next year will really help his development. The holes in his game are concerning, but nothing that can't be fixed with a solid development path which he is going to be taking. He might be Torres/Clutterbuck NHL player when he breaks in, but has potential to be more than that. He is going to be a very interesting player to watch for sure. I agree with your comments. We don't know where he will fit in the NHL, a top 6 forward or not. However he needs to go back to Jr. with the Hitmen for the rest of the year. Once the Hitmen's season is over then he should go to the AHL. He has a lot to learn and he will learn it in Utica. He is not ready to contribute at the NHL level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 47 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Gstank if you're reading this, how many new pages added up total today? I give up. I have to pop into this thread every 1 hour just so i don't have to skip 12 pages. Probably 12 POST 7000 Edited January 2, 2016 by Gstank29 POST NUMBER 7000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickVega Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'm fine with Jake coming back to Van for the rest of the year. Canucks have another decently long road trip coming up and with both other lengthy trips this year at least 2 players received long term injuries. It will be good for the team's energy level to have younger players in the lineup. Many players, especially as teenagers, have less than spectacular starts to their careers. A lot of posters on here make valid points about Jake's year so far but JB is the man with the plan and he has basically remolded the team in a year and a half. If he sees Jake contributing to that then that's great. Hopefully this is fate's way giving us a chance to make up for Cam Neely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longtime Fan Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Like most on this thread about Jake Virtanen - a lot has been expected of him as he was a high draft pick (6 th in 2014). I would think that everyone on this site has seen JV play with the Canucks and in the WJC in Finland. So most have panned him as not being that good either in the NHL or in the WJC. Quite frankly - I agree. The Canucks should have kept him one more year in Jr. as he is not NHL ready. Next year he has to go to Utica to learn the pro game. A season or part of it in the AHL will determine if he was a 6th overall pick or not. Someone has to work with him on improving his positional play on a team. He seems to wander a lot and often not where he should be. In the meantime - give the guy a chance and and have some patience with his development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzure Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Wish he could go to Utica. That's where he belongs and needs to be. There needs to be a rule that if you keep them up for the 40 games they can then go to the AHL. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 On 12/28/2015 at 3:08 PM, DownUndaCanuck said: Excuses excuses excuses. There are players in the WJC who have literally come from all over the world and are making that adjustment. Pastrnak jumps straight in and scores the game winning goal off a flight from Boston. Enough of the excuses for Virtanen, just because he's a local boy and high pick. He needs to and DESERVES to be scrutinized. I agree. I am a JV supporter but if he is not playing well or if he is not playing to his capabilities, then he needs to be scrutinized by the fans, media, management, and the coaching staff. Pretending that everything is fine is not the right thing to do. Baertschi was struggling too but he has learned to utilize his skills at the NHL level. And he looks much more comfortable now. I think part of that is coaching and the management scrutinizing his play, working with him. Same thing needs to happen for Virtanen. He not only struggled in the NHL but also failed to dominate at the WJHC level. I think we have a real concern here and I feel that we rushed him. I think he was forced to learn the pro game too soon. He should have been given the opportunity to fully develop his natural talents before learning the pro game. My concern is that learning the pro game too soon before he was able to put all of his tools together will just turn him into a 3rd liner. One more season in the WHL would not have killed his development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, khay said: I agree. I am a JV supporter but if he is not playing well or if he is not playing to his capabilities, then he needs to be scrutinized by the fans, media, management, and the coaching staff. Pretending that everything is fine is not the right thing to do. Baertschi was struggling too but he has learned to utilize his skills at the NHL level. And he looks much more comfortable now. I think part of that is coaching and the management scrutinizing his play, working with him. Same thing needs to happen for Virtanen. He not only struggled in the NHL but also failed to dominate at the WJHC level. I think we have a real concern here and I feel that we rushed him. I think he was forced to learn the pro game too soon. He should have been given the opportunity to fully develop his natural talents before learning the pro game. My concern is that learning the pro game too soon before he was able to put all of his tools together will just turn him into a 3rd liner. One more season in the WHL would not have killed his development. I don't think people are 'pretending' everything is fine, but rather many here understand that evaluating a 19 yr old player is pointless. You named Pastrnak - well there are 100s of first rounders who didn't even get a sniff of the NHL drafted in the last 5-10 years friend. I think most people here are saying, yes perhaps the NHL was too soon, but you don't call a player a bust after whatever he's played 15 games or so. It is ACTUALLY ABSURD to make such a comment. Those worried he's been 'busted' by rushing him are making an equally absurd comment. So 15 games in the NHL have ruined his game? Really? You think that 15 games in the NHL where he actually played 'ok' but just didn't show his offensive side have somehow turned his hands and offensive game to stone? really? In the words of the NFL guys "Come on Man" He will be brought back here, brought along slowly like McCann is now (for different reasons) and if he show's inconsistency next year, can easily be sent to the AHL and Green's famous shop of NHL development. Big deal - most players go that route. People here seem to panic because omg omg omg he played 15 games and he's not a superstar. So black and white in their analysis vs realizing he's young and this is certainly a shade of grey. Edited January 2, 2016 by McCannon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocanuck Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Jake has a lot of tools to work with. Great speed and size...hopefully with more experience and good coaching he will turn into quite a nice player for the canucks. I don't think he will be a 70 point player but most likely a very solid contributer and a player we can cheer for and be proud of. I am glad we have him now let him develop...he definately will have a role on this team for years to come 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincowbasher Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Dutch_Canuck said: Yeah Kreider is a good comparison attribute wise. Great speed, good hitter, agitating to play against and a good shot. It's tough to directly compare them, as Kreider went the NCAA route and played 3 years there. In 114 games for BC he accumulated 92 points. He was drafted in '09 and didn't stick with the big club full time until the 13-14 season. This is where I loose faith in JB, Kreider is amazing, super quick and agile, great hockey IQ, super good anticipation to react, JV is missing these components. If your looking for a realistic comparison then look no further then David Booth in his first few years- this is the acme for JV. not terrible but certainly not a 6th overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Another monster mistake to keep Jake with the Canucks. Watching Duclair and Draisaitl go back to junior should have taught Benning more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincowbasher Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 1 hour ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Hockey expert over here. Let's listen to him and don't expect Jake to be a good NHL player because he watched him play 2 years worth of hockey games. The truth hurts, he will max out as a David Booth like winger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 9 minutes ago, mll said: AKA they dont trust Calgary with his development Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 11 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: AKA they dont trust Calgary with his development Sounds like they are babying him, compared to the other prospects on the farm or in junior..don't like this one bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackcanuck Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Wasting a year of free agency (after 40 games) when he is not ready for the NHL is not the best use of the teams assets! I think letting him finish the season on the Hitmen and then he gets a chance to earn a spot on the Canucks in training camp or let him start in Utica next season and work his way onto the big club. This would be better for Jake and the Club Just my opinion, I don't see any reason to have to rush Jake into the lineup 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 hours ago, McCannon said: 100% he does but people seem to forget he's 19! Most if not all 19 year olds do! People think oh he scored 40 for calgary in the WHL, if he doesn't come in here and score 20 and show he can dominate he's a bust...its just not how it works. people expect more than 1 goal in 12GP against kids his age or younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 34 minutes ago, McCannon said: I don't think people are 'pretending' everything is fine, but rather many here understand that evaluating a 19 yr old player is pointless. You named Pastrnak - well there are 100s of first rounders who didn't even get a sniff of the NHL drafted in the last 5-10 years friend. I think most people here are saying, yes perhaps the NHL was too soon, but you don't call a player a bust after whatever he's played 15 games or so. It is ACTUALLY ABSURD to make such a comment. Those worried he's been 'busted' by rushing him are making an equally absurd comment. So 15 games in the NHL have ruined his game? Really? You think that 15 games in the NHL where he actually played 'ok' but just didn't show his offensive side have somehow turned his hands and offensive game to stone? really? In the words of the NFL guys "Come on Man" He will be brought back here, brought along slowly like McCann is now (for different reasons) and if he show's inconsistency next year, can easily be sent to the AHL and Green's famous shop of NHL development. Big deal - most players go that route. People here seem to panic because omg omg omg he played 15 games and he's not a superstar. So black and white in their analysis vs realizing he's young and this is certainly a shade of grey. I don't think people are calling him a bust. As I said in my post, the worst he could be is a capable 3rd liner and I don't think that qualifies as a "bust". The way he was playing in the WJHC, many people said that he is playing the pro game. And I noticed that he was trying to play the pro game, methodical type play that you need in order to play in the NHL. That is basically my concern with rushing a player. If the player learns the pro game too soon before he has the chance to let his creativity and natural talents develop further, he could easily turn into a 3rd liner when he could become a top line player. Most sensible people here aren't labelling Virt as a bust. As you said, labelling a 19 year old a bust after a handful of games would be stupid. But many people, including myself, feel that playing him in the NHL may not have been the best development route for Jake. I even feel that McCann was rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 21 minutes ago, captaincowbasher said: The truth hurts, he will max out as a David Booth like winger You've been to the future? How was it like??? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said: Wasting a year of free agency (after 40 games) when he is not ready for the NHL is not the best use of the teams assets! I think letting him finish the season on the Hitmen and then he gets a chance to earn a spot on the Canucks in training camp or let him start in Utica next season and work his way onto the big club. This would be better for Jake and the Club Just my opinion, I don't see any reason to have to rush Jake into the lineup Instead of half a year in junior and then Utica, perhaps Benning thinks Jake will benefit from another half season in the NHL, with the coaches, trainers etc. and then next year he can go to Utica. Sending him to Calgary could be seen as a wasted half year in his development or even a place where he may regress or be used poorly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said: Wasting a year of free agency (after 40 games) when he is not ready for the NHL is not the best use of the teams assets! I think letting him finish the season on the Hitmen and then he gets a chance to earn a spot on the Canucks in training camp or let him start in Utica next season and work his way onto the big club. This would be better for Jake and the Club Just my opinion, I don't see any reason to have to rush Jake into the lineup I think this is really the best argument. My take on him being up in the NHL is I think JB and team believe he needs to learn to play against men and at speed. Playing in junior will simply allow him to play the same style (utilize his man strength and speed) to create time and space for himself which has provided him with the offensive opportunities he's had to unleash his shot, and get into good scoring positions and have time once he's in the danger areas. In the NHL he will not have that time and space (as we've seen) because players are better and this is what he needs to adjust to (to be able to get to those spots, make quicker decisions, to shoot sooner, to release faster, to make the pass/shoot decision quicker). If he can't learn what he needs to learn in junior then it makes sense for him to play against tougher competition to learn to adjust his game to the pro level. I suspect he will see 20 or so of the last 40 games and should he play inconsistently to start next year in preseason he'll be in the AHL with green. And nothing wrong with that. I do understand though why they want him up, I just don't think the skills he needs to learn to compete at this level / adjustments to his game that are necessary, are going to occur playing against 17-20 yr olds. The WJC is the best of the best. It showed that against them he has a more challenging time. If his competition in junior was that level I think there is a fair argument to send him back, but its not. He should actually be in the AHL and as I said, I think his 2nd half will determine if he can stick here next year or if the AHL is in his future for a year or two. Edited January 2, 2016 by McCannon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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