Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[flickyoursedin]

1 hour ago, Byrix said:

I don't see Toronto fans crying about "Boohoo~ we should have drafted Ehlers! He has more points than Nylander."

8 teams passed on Nylander. 9passed on Ehlers. They were passed on because of their size.

With this arguement, don't just cry about the 6th pick and Virtanen because the only player "better" compared to those 2 in the 2014 draft is Leon Draisaitl.

You should help Pathers cry about Eklab, help Sabers cry about Reinhart, help Flames  cry about Bennett, help Islanders cry about Dal Colle and help Hurricanes about Fleury.

These players all scores less than Ehlers and Nylander, thus they are all "busts."

There is a thing called rankings coming into the draft. The only teams that can feel bad about missing out on Nylander and Ehlers are Vancouver and Carolina because they both ignored hundreds of scouts opinions and went past the consensus picks to take Virtanen and Fleury over Nylander and Ehlers. I'd personally feel better taking the consensus guy and he doesn't pan out right away like Dal Colle then pass the consensus like Nylander and Ehlers. Only to then watch our gamble struggle and the two guys ranked higher at the time look like future 1rst liners.

[Byrix]

15 minutes ago, flickyoursedin said:

There is a thing called rankings coming into the draft.

This?

 

 

[Byrix]

2 hours ago, ReggieBush said:

Patience is a virtue

so are Confidence, Creativity, Idealism, Tact, Trust, Tolerance and Understanding...

but try to tell that to Willie.

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, Byrix said:

This?

 

 

Out of +'s lol

 

People get FAR too focused on individual players. Drafts are always best viewed as groupings, not individual ratings. Virtanen was not 'off the board'.

 

(Neither was Juolevi).

Edited April 3, 2017 by J.R.

[elvis15]

3 hours ago, Byrix said:

I don't see Toronto fans crying about "Boohoo~ we should have drafted Ehlers! He has more points than Nylander."

8 teams passed on Nylander. 9passed on Ehlers. They were passed on because of their size.

With this arguement, don't just cry about the 6th pick and Virtanen because the only player "better" compared to those 2 in the 2014 draft is Leon Draisaitl.

You should help Pathers cry about Eklab, help Sabers cry about Reinhart, help Flames  cry about Bennett, help Islanders cry about Dal Colle and help Hurricanes about Fleury.

These players all scores less than Ehlers and Nylander, thus they are all "busts."

Really? Trying to use Ekblad and Reinhart as reasons to support your case about not crying over Nylander and Ehlers? Even Bennett who's had a down year after a decent rookie campaign, doesn't help you. Dal Colle does but pretty much no one on this board wanted him before the draft anyway so why would we care if the Islanders drafted him (and his 39 points in the AHL which is still better than Virtanen)?

 

But no need to discuss this with someone who clearly doesn't understand the meaning of the phrase 'bust' when it comes to pro hockey players (at least if you want to throw it around in this context), and who ignores that I've never said that phrase in relation to Virtanen or cried even once. I'm just pointing out the obvious in reply to people who think we should just ignore the subject of better draft choices because Jake's doing the right things and finally had his first multi-point game in the AHL.

 

Go ahead though, ignore that if we redid this draft knowing the other players we've since added to the system we wouldn't have to pick that power forward player again mostly because he was the home town kid. We would have had a lot more leeway to go with elite skill over size.

[elvis15]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Out of +'s lol

 

People get FAR too focused on individual players. Drafts are always best viewed as groupings, not individual ratings. Virtanen was not 'off the board'.

 

(Neither was Juolevi).

Nope, I wouldn't have ever called Virtanen off the board (and you know how I feel about Juolevi), but certainly that wasn't the only draft ranking ever put out at the time. Even ignoring the outliers like Button ranking Virtanen so low, I would have put Virtanen closer to 8 or 9th overall. If we were picking there and Nylander and Ehlers were gone, then I couldn't complain. But I'll stand by my opinion at the time that we needed elite skill and Nylander was out best bet to offer that.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Nope, I wouldn't have ever called Virtanen off the board (and you know how I feel about Juolevi), but certainly that wasn't the only draft ranking ever put out at the time. Even ignoring the outliers like Button ranking Virtanen so low, I would have put Virtanen closer to 8 or 9th overall. If we were picking there and Nylander and Ehlers were gone, then I couldn't complain. But I'll stand by my opinion at the time that we needed elite skill and Nylander was out best bet to offer that.

My point is that they were all within the same grouping. Some had Virtanen at 6 some had him at 8 etc. Doesn't really matter. It's like arguing which shade of blue is better. 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

My point is that they were all within the same grouping. Some had Virtanen at 6 some had him at 8 etc. Doesn't really matter. It's like arguing which shade of blue is better. 

The answer is royal and all other opinions are worthless and invalid.

 

CDC style debate. 

[73 Percent]

7 hours ago, shayster007 said:

The answer is royal and all other opinions are worthless and invalid.

 

CDC style debate. 

Dufuq you know about colors man. Cobalt blue>royal blue.

[GoBoGo53]

On 4/2/2017 at 5:38 AM, bohoforpresident said:

One day Jake is going to run those daisy pickers Nylanders and ehlers through the boards. No problem with the pick at 6. Jake's goals since he went pro have been few and far between but when you look at the goals he has scored, it's obvious why he was picked.

The kid just needs to find his consistency. If he can score even twenty goals a season and staple those thin bearded eurotrash players Nylander and Ehlers to the glass everytime we play them...I'm more than happy. 

 

 

Jake is looking fast.. His first goal tonight.. look at the seperation he creates to get a clear 2 on 1. Almost put himself offside lol. Wheels on wheels. A hard shot and he likes to pick corners. And the kid likes to hit. 

 

Of course everyone is entitled to post whatever their opinion is (as long as it's within the forum rules)... But it is very annoying when people are doing a redraft after every single year....

 

seriously though players like Ehlers and Nylanders turn up in every draft year... Dainty little Europeans with finesse... You cant have every player. We all know the best players are homegrown

 

 

 

 

There is so much salt in this post. First off, how many 20 year olds have produced at the same clip as Nylander/Ehlers? Hardly any. All of them are star players. How can you say they come up through every draft?

If you are using that type of logic, there are hundreds of Virtanen type players availible through the draft, because his AHL production is so bad its comparable to career AHL'ers/4th line plugs.

 

I don't understand the need to constantly put down Nylander/Ehlers in order to prop up Virtanen. Both Nylander/Ehlers look like superstars and people like you are still defending the Virtanen pick? 

And also, finesse, "daisy pickers" like Kane/Kessel/Panarin/Gaudreau seem to be key components of some damn good teams. Stamkos is roughly the same size as Nylander, and I doubt anyone would call him small. Your post is just so salty, it's almost embarrassing. 

If you are going to say things like Nylander/Ehlers come every draft, back up your opinion. Show me a list of players that have put up ~60 points in their rookie season at 20 years old. I doubt you'd find many. I can find you hundreds that replicate Virtanen's production.

Edited April 3, 2017 by GoBoGo53

[Stelar]

20 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Dufuq you know about colors man. Cobalt blue>royal blue.

F that, Navy is the manly blue 

[aGENT]

23 minutes ago, Stelar said:

F that, Navy is the manly blue 

All this time I thought it was periwinkle! 

 

#doingitwrong 

[bohoforpresident]

48 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

There is so much salt in this post. First off, how many 20 year olds have produced at the same clip as Nylander/Ehlers? Hardly any. All of them are star players. How can you say they come up through every draft?

If you are using that type of logic, there are hundreds of Virtanen type players availible through the draft, because his AHL production is so bad its comparable to career AHL'ers/4th line plugs.

 

I don't understand the need to constantly put down Nylander/Ehlers in order to prop up Virtanen. Both Nylander/Ehlers look like superstars and people like you are still defending the Virtanen pick? 

And also, finesse, "daisy pickers" like Kane/Kessel/Panarin/Gaudreau seem to be key components of some damn good teams. Stamkos is roughly the same size as Nylander, and I doubt anyone would call him small. Your post is just so salty, it's almost embarrassing. 

If you are going to say things like Nylander/Ehlers come every draft, back up your opinion. Show me a list of players that have put up ~60 points in their rookie season at 20 years old. I doubt you'd find many. I can find you hundreds that replicate Virtanen's production.

You must be European.

 

The comments about those players were tongue in cheek not to say they aren't good players....

 

But I honestly believe players like them are in every draft year. And there is definitely star players in every draft.The thing you aren't taking into account is that more players are starting to be able to come into the NHL and produce at a young age. Its going to be more and more common players putting up those points when they first come in. Development is just that much better. But still not all players. Plus playing with generational talent (which Ehlers/nylander aren't) and first line players couldn't hurt their stats...

 

You have your opinion on what you like to see a team built around and I have mine... But I prefer players with grit and the strength to back it up

 

It wasn't salty at all thats just how you chose to read it. You have a salty mind.

Edited April 3, 2017 by bohoforpresident

[TimberWolf]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:32 AM, CoolCanucklehead said:

Have you watched his recent games? I've caught a couple in the past week & he is looking fast, confident & noticeable in a good way almost every shift. Popped in a few more tonight I see.

My belief is that it's way too early to be predicting his ceiling. Yes Jake didn't show high hockey IQ as a teenager pro but neither did many power forward types in the past. Some get it early some get it later & yes some don't ever get it. Jake is far from that player yet. He's got loads of potential with that shot, speed, strength & skill set.

The way he's coming around in Utica now & his continued commitment to getting better, I would give Jake a few more years. To many tools to not be patient here & patience has been a key to many NHL'rs careers. (Naslund, Bertuzzi, Kesler, Neely, Kreider, Simmonds, St.Louis, etc.) Every kid develops differently.

 

Your acting like I am saying he's a bust. I am not. I expect him to be a good third liner for us and have the patience for that (should spend another year down)

 

I do not expect him to be an elite sniper in the NHL (scoring in the NHL is a whole different animal and AHL fast skating and scoring does not equal elite NHL hockey IQ) , the next bertuzzi or whatever breaking his potential would make him become. Sticking to a Raffi type and being pleasantly surprised by anything else is the best approach with this kid. 

 

Remember Raffi was an important part our best team ever. At least if that's all Virt becomes we won;t have to trade a pick for a guy like that cause we grew our own. 

[GoBoGo53]

1 hour ago, bohoforpresident said:

You must be European.

 

The comments about those players were tongue in cheek not to say they aren't good players....

 

But I honestly believe players like them are in every draft year. And there is definitely star players in every draft.The thing you aren't taking into account is that more players are starting to be able to come into the NHL and produce at a young age. Its going to be more and more common players putting up those points when they first come in. Development is just that much better. But still not all players. Plus playing with generational talent (which Ehlers/nylander aren't) and first line players couldn't hurt their stats...

 

You have your opinion on what you like to see a team built around and I have mine... But I prefer players with grit and the strength to back it up

 

It wasn't salty at all thats just how you chose to read it. You have a salty mind.

But what do you mean like there are players like them every draft. Show me a list of players that have produced at the level of Ehlers and Nylander and come back to me. There are hundreds if not thousands of players that put up Virtanen's numbers numbers and make up the show. I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that players int he last 10 years that have put up 60 points in their 20 year old seasons like Ehlers/Nylander have, have gone on to be superstars at the NHL level.

And of course you are being salty. You called them daisy pickers. That's out of jealousy or a complete lack of understanding for the game. It's an insult. 

My question to you is, is Juolevi a daisy picker? Because he is soft, doesn't throw hits, and plays a very European game. Guess we should have traded that pick for Lawson Crouse then because he hits a bunch of people? People who think like you are the exact reason people pick Tyler BIggs over Rakell, Lawson Crouse over Kyle Connor, Nick Ritchie over David Pastranak, and Jake Virtanen over Nylander and Ehlers.

Edited April 3, 2017 by GoBoGo53

[stawns]

27 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

But what do you mean like there are players like them every draft. Show me a list of players that have produced at the level of Ehlers and Nylander and come back to me. There are hundreds if not thousands of players that put up Virtanen's numbers numbers and make up the show. I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that players int he last 10 years that have put up 60 points in their 20 year old seasons like Ehlers/Nylander have, have gone on to be superstars at the NHL level.

And of course you are being salty. You called them daisy pickers. That's out of jealousy or a complete lack of understanding for the game. It's an insult. 

My question to you is, is Juolevi a daisy picker? Because he is soft, doesn't throw hits, and plays a very European game. Guess we should have traded that pick for Lawson Crouse then because he hits a bunch of people? People who think like you are the exact reason people pick Tyler BIggs over Rakell, Lawson Crouse over Kyle Connor, Nick Ritchie over David Pastranak, and Jake Virtanen over Nylander and Ehlers.

Jake has a lot of elements to his game

[-AJ-]

53 minutes ago, TimberWolf said:

 

Your acting like I am saying he's a bust. I am not. I expect him to be a good third liner for us and have the patience for that (should spend another year down)

 

I do not expect him to be an elite sniper in the NHL (scoring in the NHL is a whole different animal and AHL fast skating and scoring does not equal elite NHL hockey IQ) , the next bertuzzi or whatever breaking his potential would make him become. Sticking to a Raffi type and being pleasantly surprised by anything else is the best approach with this kid. 

 

Remember Raffi was an important part our best team ever. At least if that's all Virt becomes we won;t have to trade a pick for a guy like that cause we grew our own. 

Not to mention that before Torres played for the Canucks, he peaked out as a 20-goal scorer. I'd be fine with a few years of 20+ goals from Virtanen.

[TimberWolf]

Just now, ajhockey said:

Not to mention that before Torres played for the Canucks, he peaked out as a 20-goal scorer. I'd be fine with a few years of 20+ goal from Virtanen.

 

I think when people compare him to Raffi they only see the suspensions and not the hard work, hitting and tenacity that made up for being a low hockey IQ type player. The kind of things that Jake will need to utilize to find success in the NHL and thus the comparison 

[bohoforpresident]

39 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

But what do you mean like there are players like them every draft. Show me a list of players that have produced at the level of Ehlers and Nylander and come back to me. There are hundreds if not thousands of players that put up Virtanen's numbers numbers and make up the show. I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that players int he last 10 years that have put up 60 points in their 20 year old seasons like Ehlers/Nylander have, have gone on to be superstars at the NHL level.

And of course you are being salty. You called them daisy pickers. That's out of jealousy or a complete lack of understanding for the game. It's an insult. 

My question to you is, is Juolevi a daisy picker? Because he is soft, doesn't throw hits, and plays a very European game. Guess we should have traded that pick for Lawson Crouse then because he hits a bunch of people? People who think like you are the exact reason people pick Tyler BIggs over Rakell, Lawson Crouse over Kyle Connor, Nick Ritchie over David Pastranak, and Jake Virtanen over Nylander and Ehlers.

Like I said they are good players.

 

Sorry I don't have time to make a list from every NHL draft and show you the players every year that became top point producers in the NHL from all rounds and at different rates. All I'm saying is good and great players are picked every year. The difference is that you are so fixated on it being their rookie seasons. That doesn't mean to say that other players wont develop later and have the same ceiling. And I'm not saying Virtanen has the same ceiling as then either. As I said if he becomes a 20 goal scorer witg blistering speed and a heavy checker that's  an awesome  player for a team to have. I think he can score more goals than that with good linemates though. Anyways the NHL is getting younger...Players like ehlers/nylander will become more and more common who can come into the NHL and make an impact right away. Not to say other players won't still need more time to get to the NHL and need more development than others.

 

The game is played fundamentaly different by Canadians and Europeans. I like the Canadian brand of hockey more. That doesn't go to say that their aren't gritty Europeans players and not to say we shouldn't draft Europeans players who don't have and edge to their game.

 

As for your 'people like you're  comment.... We have literally had two exchanges on a Canucks forum so you don't know anything about me other than how I feel about the Virtanen draft pick.

 

But if you wanted to make assumptions about me...You seem like the chief of fun police. Getting your panties all twisted up because I called a couple of people you don't know daisy pickers. TBH juolevi has probably picked a couple Daisy's in his life. Doesn't mean he can't be a great defenceman...

 

It is a joke pal. Not an insult. Not salty. And of course I'm jealous of Ehlers and Nylanders.

 

We obviously don't see eye to eye so I'll leave it at that.

[Gaudette Celly]

On 4/1/2017 at 10:59 PM, DownUndaCanuck said:

This is getting more and more obvious every time he picks a new player. We desperately need a playmaker though, in particular at center. Goldobin and Dahlen have a lot of skill but hopefully they're the shooters and we nab ourselves a nice top-6 playmaking center. Hirschier would fit the bill to a tee.

Benning's made it pretty clear in recent interviews that he's targeting a playmaking centre and/or PPQB this draft, citing that very reason -- they've stocked up on scoring (potential) wingers and now need the players to get them the puck.