ice orca Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I don't know if we can get them to release him, but we could pressure them to trade him to another team. Minnesota did that with Dumba a few years back. Basically they told Red Deer "Trade him and get some assets for him or we're keeping him all year and you get nothing for him." He was then traded to Portland and sent back to the WHL.The Coil got Prince Albert to release Drasaitl last year to a contender, i'm sure management can try it at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I would love to see him return. I know people want to see him make the roster but I really believe that a year more in junior will benefit him more. He will get top line minutes in Calgary and be a pretty big part of Team Canada at the WJC. Beats playing 8-10 minutes on the 4th line with linemates like Prust and Dorsett imo. Agreed. And if Calgary isn't in a playoff position by the end of December, Virtanen will likely be traded. Virtanen might require another half to full season in the AHL next year too. Virtanen is exactly the type of player you don't want to rush just because of his size. He needs to mature, play smarter, hone his skill, and get even stronger and faster. There are other prospects who we can get excited about this year, Virtanen needs time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Don't make him go Kassian on us now JB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Agreed. And if Calgary isn't in a playoff position by the end of December, Virtanen will likely be traded. Virtanen might require another half to full season in the AHL next year too. Virtanen is exactly the type of player you don't want to rush just because of his size. He needs to mature, play smarter, hone his skill, and get even stronger and faster. There are other prospects who we can get excited about this year, Virtanen needs time. Another year of Junior is not going to do anything to get rid of the bad habits that are the main reasons anyone's questioning him making the big club. He needs high level coaching and structure, structure, structure. Guess what's almost entirely absent in Jr? His best (and sadly unavailable) course would be to go to Utica. Jr. is literally the worst option for him IMO and should only be taken if he's CLEARLY not ready and is not showing any signs of progress/learning/adapting at this level.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksFanTillDeath1995 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Yeah cause you can never have enough small, soft, european centers... Personally think Ehlers will have the best statistical career out of the 3-4 guys that we could have drafted. But Virtanen may be the guy with the all round game that every team values. This is a terrible post, sorry. Nylander is 6'0 190, no way thats considered small. He is as big as Crosby and bigger than Giroux, look at how those two panned out. And soft? Did you see his goal the other day? Drove the net hard and put it in the back of the net. Nylander put up record breaking numbers in his draft+1 year. It was a good year for him. Ehlers is also a very good prospect, lets hope Jake turns up this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Another year of Junior is not going to do anything to get rid of the bad habits that are the main reasons anyone's questioning him making the big club. He needs high level coaching and structure, structure, structure. Guess what's almost entirely absent in Jr? His best (and sadly unavailable) course would be to go to Utica. Jr. is literally the worst option for him IMO and should only be taken if he's CLEARLY not ready and is not showing any signs of progress/learning/adapting at this level.. I agree he has some bad junior habits, which is why I think a half to a full season next year in the AHL might be necessary. But I do think he can improve some aspects of his game in junior such as: defensive play (much easier to learn to play better defense against weaker competition), hone in offensive skill (passing, stick handling, etc), maturity (learn to take on a leadership role not only in the WHL but also at WJC). Virtanen needs to be able to dominate the WHL if he hopes to be a top 6 power forward in the NHL. So far he has yet to do that. Yes, he is an early birthday and yes he came off shoulder surgery but that is why he needs to put up great +2 numbers in the WHL. I was (and still am) a big fan of Virtanen before we drafted him and I was happy that Benning selected him. However, I wasn't too impressed by his +1 season last year in the WHL. He took shifts and nights off (not only from a offensive standpoint but also from a physicality standpoint). I still think it is far too early to make any declarations about his future, although I am not overly enthused about his +1 development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Nylander: 2GP - 1G, 1A Virtanen: 1GP - 0G, 0A You know I'll be watching this all career long. Watch his first games against Kopitar, Lucic, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Marleau, Thornton, and Burns and tell if he gets out of at least one game unscathed. Virtanen is built for those games, Nylander is built for the soft, high-paced East. Now stop this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Another year of Junior is not going to do anything to get rid of the bad habits that are the main reasons anyone's questioning him making the big club. He needs high level coaching and structure, structure, structure. Guess what's almost entirely absent in Jr? His best (and sadly unavailable) course would be to go to Utica. Jr. is literally the worst option for him IMO and should only be taken if he's CLEARLY not ready and is not showing any signs of progress/learning/adapting at this level..There are some very fine coaches in junior hockey look at the foundations that Horvat and Cassels had. Sometimes the bad habits are created by the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHitman Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 This is a terrible post, sorry. You just compared Nylander to Crosby He compared them in terms of size. Perfectly valid comparison in that sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I agree he has some bad junior habits, which is why I think a half to a full season next year in the AHL might be necessary. But I do think he can improve some aspects of his game in junior such as: defensive play (much easier to learn to play better defense against weaker competition), He took shifts and nights off (not only from a offensive standpoint but also from a physicality standpoint). I still think it is far too early to make any declarations about his future, although I am not overly enthused about his +1 development. Your first point is counter intuitive precisely because of the second quoted one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Watch his first games against Kopitar, Lucic, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Marleau, Thornton, and Burns and tell if he gets out of at least one game unscathed. Virtanen is built for those games, Nylander is built for the soft, high-paced East. Now stop this.Smaller skilled teams like Tampa,Montreal,Detroit had a winning record against the west last year so did Toronto for whats that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Your first point is counter intuitive precisely because of the second quoted one. I'll rephrase. Going back to junior is good and bad. However, I would rather him improve the things he can at the junior level (defense, offense, maturity, etc) even if it means reinforcing some bad habits. The next season (+3) I would use the AHL to get him to break some of those habits. My ideal development curve for Virtanen would be: +2 WHL, +3 AHL, +4 NHL. This would be especially important if one wants to develop him as a power forward. Right now there is no chance he can play the same style of game he does in the WHL in the NHL. He'll need to get bigger, stronger, faster, and better conditioned to hope to play that style in the NHL (which I should note is very rare at the NHL level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 decades and no cup Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'll rephrase. Going back to junior is good and bad. However, I would rather him improve the things he can at the junior level (defense, offense, maturity, etc) even if it means reinforcing some bad habits. The next season (+3) I would use the AHL to get him to break some of those habits. My ideal development curve for Virtanen would be: +2 WHL, +3 AHL, +4 NHL. This would be especially important if one wants to develop him as a power forward. Right now there is no chance he can play the same style of game he does in the WHL in the NHL. He'll need to get bigger, stronger, faster, and better conditioned to hope to play that style in the NHL (which I should note is very rare at the NHL level). I agree completely. It seems that the power forward type players take a little longer to find their 'complete' game. Most folks are realizing that Jake needs more time and is not quite ready for the NHL, but don't think his Jr team provides the kind of coaching for him to develop properly. I wonder if a trip abroad to Finland would be better for him (he has duel citizenship). Jake would have a chance to continue playing against men in a leaque that is considered to be very good and the Fins seem to play a 'Canadian like' game. With the 'big ice' he would be forced to work on other aspects of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 He compared them in terms of size. Perfectly valid comparison in that sense. He compared them in terms of size. Perfectly valid comparison in that sense. People may be the same weight and height, but that (by no means) indicates they are the same size. Crosby has an enormous butt, much like Bo, which makes him a lot stronger on his skates than Nylander. Nylander is a thin guy, especially in his lower body. He will certainly gain size and strength, but for now he's small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksFanTillDeath1995 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 This is a terrible post, sorry. You just compared Nylander to Crosby In terms of SIZE. A perfectly valid comparison, not in terms of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksFanTillDeath1995 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) People may be the same weight and height, but that (by no means) indicates they are the same size. Crosby has an enormous butt, much like Bo, which makes him a lot stronger on his skates than Nylander. Nylander is a thin guy, especially in his lower body. He will certainly gain size and strength, but for now he's small This is a recent picture of Nylander I have a hard time believing that is "thin" or small. He looks pretty big there, especially for his height. Edited September 24, 2015 by CanucksFanTillDeath1995 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) People may be the same weight and height, but that (by no means) indicates they are the same size. Crosby has an enormous butt, much like Bo, which makes him a lot stronger on his skates than Nylander. Nylander is a thin guy, especially in his lower body. He will certainly gain size and strength, but for now he's small I think if they draft was pushed to 19 (ie the 2014 draft class was drafted this year) even Benning would have a difficult time taking Virtanen over Nylander. Nylander's 20 points in 21 games in the SHL and then 32 points in 37 AHL games is very impressive for a +1 season. I really wish they would push the draft back a year. It would make it more precise and they could probably eliminate a couple rounds. They could always leave a caveat for exceptional 18 year olds (like they could only be taken with the top 3 picks). Edited September 24, 2015 by baumerman77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think if they draft was pushed to 19 (ie the 2014 draft class was drafted this year) even Benning would have a difficult time taking Virtanen over Nylander. Nylander's 20 points in 21 games in the SHL and then 32 points in 37 AHL games is very impressive for a +1 season. I really wish they would push the draft back a year. It would make it more precise and they could probably eliminate a couple rounds. They could always leave a caveat for exceptional 18 year olds (like they could only be taken with the top 3 picks). I agree completely with pushing the draft back, and I think even 19 is being safe, pushing it back 2 years to 20 would be ideal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think if they draft was pushed to 19 (ie the 2014 draft class was drafted this year) even Benning would have a difficult time taking Virtanen over Nylander. Nylander's 20 points in 21 games in the SHL and then 32 points in 37 AHL games is very impressive for a +1 season. I really wish they would push the draft back a year. It would make it more precise and they could probably eliminate a couple rounds. They could always leave a caveat for exceptional 18 year olds (like they could only be taken with the top 3 picks). I agree they should push the draft back a year. However, why would that matter for Virt and Nylander? Nylander is still a one dimensional player who, despite the skill level, is going to get knocked around, big time......more so if he were in the west. For a decade or so, there's been a lot of frustration watchjing a team in Van who gets pushed around the rink by other teams. JB obviously saw how ineffective that is in the SCF and is going about fixing that. Virt is a critical component to that transition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 This is a terrible post, sorry. Nylander is 6'0 190, no way thats considered small. He is as big as Crosby and bigger than Giroux, look at how those two panned out. And soft? Did you see his goal the other day? Drove the net hard and put it in the back of the net. Nylander put up record breaking numbers in his draft+1 year. It was a good year for him. Ehlers is also a very good prospect, lets hope Jake turns up this year.More like 5'11 180 ish. He's small and soft for a center. He's not really gritty or tough. Crosby and Giroux may be similar in size but built different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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