[Trade] VAN Alexandre Mallet + Pick :: NYI Andrey Pedan

[Dazzle]

Don't pretend you weren't taking a piss at Russian players and that one Asian NY Islanders draft pick.

She called the whole post as "common logic".

When did the NYI pick up an Asian player? Did you mean Pittsburgh? (Richard Park)

[theminister]

She called the whole post as "common logic".

When did the NYI pick up an Asian player? Did you mean Pittsburgh? (Richard Park)

I assume it referred to Josh Ho-Sang.

His father is a black Jamaican, with some Chinese ancestry, and his mother is Jewish.^[5]

[Wilbur]

Yeah, we'll see.

I mean Cassels and Tryamkin are looking like terrible picks, who would you rather have? Cassels or Pedan? Tryamkin or Pedan?

I'm a big fan of our drafting and don't see how this helps. I mean we probably couldn't even get a 3rd round pick for Grenier that's another reason I think we overpaid.

Where this helps is our depth for players in their early 20s, something this team has very little of. This factored in with the Vey trade too.

[Plum]

Where this helps is our depth for players in their early 20s, something this team has very little of. This factored in with the Vey trade too.

The pick and Mallet do the same thing?

I know where you're getting at but I just think this is an overpayment for a guy with slim chances to make the NHL.

[bad alice french]

we'll get that third round pick back somewhere else. not over the moon on this one but i like the size and nastiness. all that i really care about after that is skating ability. defence has become a skating position and i hope the guy has feet and some speed. i like his age and where he sits in the cupboard but a little concerned about why he's not working out for the isles. we need more prospects on D.

in benning we trust.

[Dazzle]

Yeah, we'll see.

I mean Cassels and Tryamkin are looking like terrible picks, who would you rather have? Cassels or Pedan? Tryamkin or Pedan?

I'm a big fan of our drafting and don't see how this helps. I mean we probably couldn't even get a 3rd round pick for Grenier that's another reason I think we overpaid.

Where's your source?

Cassels and Tryamkin are doing very well right now, stats wise and they're well-spoken by coaches.

[theminister]

The pick and Mallet do the same thing?

I know where you're getting at but I just think this is an overpayment for a guy with slim chances to make the NHL.

Nope. Mallet was a reach pick at the time who has gone backwards since. He is getting further away from helping an NHL squad. The pick is currently 16 years old vs 21 for Pedan.

Who says? You? Not GMJB who just traded for him. It's pretty clear he knows a whole lot more than you do about the prospect's prospects.

Considering this is a kid who is further down the depth chart than Peter Andersson at the moment, it was a bit surprising to hear that one day in the next two years or so he is expected to play some games for the big team.

And since Pedan’s miles down the pecking order it’s not really as though he’s just acquired Steven Stamkos. Nonetheless Benning does chapter and verse on this kid, talks extensively about his background, his family, their income status, how and where his brothers play or played, his deportment towards playing in the K as opposed to the NHL and on and on. It was virtually everything you could know about the kid before dating him and he could have continued had the period not been about to start.

Benning loves this kind of detail, this kind of preparation before making even the most modest move. He’s absolutely in his element when he’s calculating the chances of a player making an impact or making the NHL roster. Put him in a tux at a lavish event with the well-heeled season ticket holders he’s not so comfortable – but talking to a guy like Malloy, he was a jewel. You put this kind of background knowledge together with his already demonstrated ability to act decisively and in theory you should have a guy with a tremendous chance to be successful in this line of work. We shall find out in a few years

It has as much merit as your utter gibberish below which isn't at all true…. since a little investigation shows that Pedan DID actually make the team but was nursing an injury. He was only sitting because he was banged up and then was sent to the ECHL for conditioning.

Your take is just fantasy assertion based on a glance at his stat sheet.

I hope so.

It is an overpayment for a player who has only played 3 more AHL games than he has played ECHL games. Anyway you want to slice it, he's a player who isn't better than any of the Bridgeport defenceman.

Exactly, he's played in the ECHL because he couldn't beat out a 6th rounder who's playing his first pro season for a spot in Bridgeport. He was called back up to the AHL because Reinhart was called up to New York, I mean he's a borderline AHLer. That's not good to hear, sure they have a strong team in Bridgeport but it's Pulock, Pelech, Mayfield, Ness, Czuczman. He should be able to beat out atleast a NHL 6th rounder who's playing his first pro season in the AHL.

Gorges cap hit didn't matter to Buffalo, Buffalo needed to get over the cap floor and they paid a most likely high 2nd rounder for him.

I still have no idea how a NHLer that played in the finals, was a part of a 4th line that was raved about (Moore-Boyle-Dorsett) by anaylsts is equivalent to a AHLer/ECHLer with injury history.

Your belief of why he has little chance of making the NHL, in stark contrast to GMJB's opinion, is based on as much info as your statement above that he is a borderline NHLer for getting a conditioning assignment. And, as oldnews showed, was as bad as deriding the Dorsett trade immediately only to change your tune now and say he WAS worth a 3rd.

Folks, this is what happens when you form an opinion before doing your research.

[coryberg]

The pick and Mallet do the same thing?

I know where you're getting at but I just think this is an overpayment for a guy with slim chances to make the NHL.

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/value-in-acquiring-draft-picks

"CONCLUSION

It seems pretty clear that after the first round (60.5%) your chances of finding a decent NHL player become increasing lower. A second round pick will give you a 23.7% chance, you'll have a 15.8% in the 3rd round, only 8.6% in the fourth, 7.1% in the fifth, a little boost up to 9.1% in the sixth and 9.7% in the 7th round.

None of these numbers are shocking, but when people suggest that getting a 2nd rounder for "fill in the blank" is a good trade, keep in mind that you essentially have a one in four chance of turning that pick into a player. I understand that when a team is trading away an UFA that getting something is better than nothing, but unless that something actually pans out, the draft pick, in many cases, turns out to be a whole lot of nothing."

mallet would have never suited up for the canucks. Benning made the islanders take him so we would still have contract space.

[theminister]

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/value-in-acquiring-draft-picks

"CONCLUSION

It seems pretty clear that after the first round (60.5%) your chances of finding a decent NHL player become increasing lower. A second round pick will give you a 23.7% chance, you'll have a 15.8% in the 3rd round, only 8.6% in the fourth, 7.1% in the fifth, a little boost up to 9.1% in the sixth and 9.7% in the 7th round.

None of these numbers are shocking, but when people suggest that getting a 2nd rounder for "fill in the blank" is a good trade, keep in mind that you essentially have a one in four chance of turning that pick into a player. I understand that when a team is trading away an UFA that getting something is better than nothing, but unless that something actually pans out, the draft pick, in many cases, turns out to be a whole lot of nothing."

mallet would have never suited up for the canucks. Benning made the islanders take him so we would still have contract space.

This should be pinned at the top of every draft page, proposal page and trade announcement/rumour.

It doesn't matter how often it's stated, even in this own thread, it gets ignored by fans who think a 15% chance is an 'overpayment'

[Plum]

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/value-in-acquiring-draft-picks

mallet would have never suited up for the canucks. Benning made the islanders take him so we would still have contract space.

Pedan doesn't have a good chance at making the NHL either IMO.

Nope. Mallet was a reach pick at the time who has gone backwards since. He is getting further away from helping an NHL squad. The pick is currently 16 years old vs 21 for Pedan.

Who says? You? Not GMJB who just traded for him. It's pretty clear he knows a whole lot more than you do about the prospect's prospects.

It has as much merit as your utter gibberish below which isn't at all true…. since a little investigation shows that Pedan DID actually make the team but was nursing an injury. He was only sitting because he was banged up and then was sent to the ECHL for conditioning.

Your take is just fantasy assertion based on a glance at his stat sheet.

Your belief of why he has little chance of making the NHL, in stark contrast to GMJB's opinion, is based on as much info as your statement above that he is a borderline NHLer for getting a conditioning assignment. And, as oldnews showed, was as bad as deriding the Dorsett trade immediately only to change your tune now and say he WAS worth a 3rd.

Folks, this is what happens when you form an opinion before doing your research.

Cassels and Tryamkin, our 3rd round picks are looking pretty solid. I want to keep these picks not trade them away, I don't think Pedan has a good shot at the NHL, he's had many injuries. I did my research, I tried to find what NYI fans had to say about Pedan, they didn't say alot but I did hear "long shot to make the NHL."

Pedan wasn't sent to the ECHL for a conditioning stint, he was just re-assigned there.

@TheSoundTigers

#BST Transaction: The #Isles have re-assigned Andrey Pedan to the Sound Tigers from the @StocktonThunder

We are actually kind of getting away from the point, you mentioned Dorsett and Pedan have the same value, still think that or do you just want to forget about what you said?

Pedan has regressed from when he was drafted, he got injured alot in his pro season and he has been bouncing between the AHL and the ECHL this season.

Where's your source?

Cassels and Tryamkin are doing very well right now, stats wise and they're well-spoken by coaches.

It was sarcasm, that's what I'm saying. Our recent 3rd round picks are looking solid and that's why I want to keep our draft picks and not trade them for what I think is a long shot for the NHL.

[Dazzle]

Pedan doesn't have a good chance at making the NHL either IMO.

Cassels and Tryamkin, our 3rd round picks are looking pretty solid. I want to keep these picks not trade them away, I don't think Pedan has a good shot at the NHL, he's had many injuries. I did my research, I tried to find what NYI fans had to say about Pedan, they didn't say alot but I did hear "long shot to make the NHL."

Pedan wasn't sent to the ECHL for a conditioning stint, he was just re-assigned there.

@TheSoundTigers

#BST Transaction: The #Isles have re-assigned Andrey Pedan to the Sound Tigers from the @StocktonThunder

We are actually kind of getting away from the point, you mentioned Dorsett and Pedan have the same value, still think that or do you just want to forget about what you said?

Pedan has regressed from when he was drafted, he got injured alot in his pro season and he has been bouncing between the AHL and the ECHL this season.

It was sarcasm, that's what I'm saying. Our recent 3rd round picks are looking solid and that's why I want to keep our draft picks and not trade them for what I think is a long shot for the NHL.

It's a 2016 3rd round pick, so it'll be some time before that pick turns out to be "useful". Right now, we have a defenceman that we can work with + we unload a bad player.

We help them and they help us.

[theminister]

Pedan doesn't have a good chance at making the NHL either IMO.

Cassels and Tryamkin, our 3rd round picks are looking pretty solid. I want to keep these picks not trade them away, I don't think Pedan has a good shot at the NHL, he's had many injuries. I did my research, I tried to find what NYI fans had to say about Pedan, they didn't say alot but I did hear "long shot to make the NHL."

Pedan wasn't sent to the ECHL for a conditioning stint, he was just re-assigned there.

@TheSoundTigers

#BST Transaction: The #Isles have re-assigned Andrey Pedan to the Sound Tigers from the @StocktonThunder

We are actually kind of getting away from the point, you mentioned Dorsett and Pedan have the same value, still think that or do you just want to forget about what you said?

Pedan has regressed from when he was drafted, he got injured alot in his pro season and he has been bouncing between the AHL and the ECHL this season.

It was sarcasm, that's what I'm saying. Our recent 3rd round picks are looking solid and that's why I want to keep our draft picks and not trade them for what I think is a long shot for the NHL.

I'll still take GMJB's evaluation and my own over yours. A 3rd round has a 15% chance of being an NHLer. If Pedan is 50/50, which JB must think he's close to (and I'm sure we'll get some good quotes from him this week), then it's a 3-1 chance the deal pays off. Even if he has a 30% chance it's 2-1… I don't get how you can't see this if a scouting department thinks more of him than a NYI fan blog.

Not at all.

Value is assessed by what is payed. Dorsett was worth a 3rd in the offseason because he was a 4th liner, coming off of an injury, on an expiring contract who could walk as a UFA after the season. I'd wager his value has gone up a tad since then… maybe add a 5th after his good start.

Pedan is worth a 3rd as that's where he was drafted…. that's what was just paid for him…. that's the minimum it would take to pry him off of us currently. He's a 3rd. Some small injuries and being caught in a numbers game hasn't altered that.This is really basic stuff unless you are the type of person whose evaluations turn on a dime. His play went up two years in a row after being drafted only to slip a little in the last few months. If you think he would have been available for a 4th round pick don't you think GMJB would have started there with Snow? I bet he did and they negotiated up to his current value. A 3rd round pick, but not a 2015, a 2016 instead assuming the NYI agree to take Mallet or another junk contract.

So when did Dorsett become worth a 3rd to you since he was a plug in July? I'm wondering what the over/under is for you, in weeks or months, to actually see what the player is about before changing your mind as to their trade value?

[oldnews]

I mean Cassels and Tryamkin are looking like terrible picks, who would you rather have? Cassels or Pedan? Tryamkin or Pedan?

I'm a big fan of our drafting and don't see how this helps. I mean we probably couldn't even get a 3rd round pick for Grenier that's another reason I think we overpaid.

Btw - Benning didn't deal Cassells or Tryamkin - he dealt a draft pick in 2016. If it turns out he values players in that range in that draft so much that he can't be without a 3rd in 2016, he can still turn around and acquire one.

And here's the irony. Jim Benning used a 3rd to draft Tryamkin. And then he saw fit to use a 3rd (2016) to acquire a 21 year old taken 63rd overall in 2011 - a top 3 pick in that round. So if you like our drafting - that drafting is based upon assessing young talent - and in this case, Benning had the benefit of three additional years after being drafted to assess Pedan. He bought five years of development between 2011 and 2016 - so really I don't see point of the protest. You can't really separate Benning's drafting from his assessment of youth, clearly integral to either drafting or dealing for young players.

[Ossi Vaananen]

It's a future 3rd for a current 3rd.. no loss. Mallet was the poster boy of bad picks, no loss.

[Aladeen]

Wow I am utterly amazed that there is opposition to this trade.

With the avg that GMJB is batting in the moves he's made since joining the Canucks we should feel giddy whenever he makes a trade.

Its a third round pick, if Benning wanted to give a 3rd rounder away for a night with Snow's wife, I think he should have all of our blessing to rock her world for an evening.

[Plum]

I'll still take GMJB's evaluation and my own over yours. A 3rd round has a 15% chance of being an NHLer. If Pedan is 50/50, which JB must think he's close to (and I'm sure we'll get some good quotes from him this week), then it's a 3-1 chance the deal pays off. Even if he has a 30% chance it's 2-1… I don't get how you can't see this if a scouting department thinks more of him than a NYI fan blog.

Not at all.

Value is assessed by what is payed. Dorsett was worth a 3rd in the offseason because he was a 4th liner, coming off of an injury, on an expiring contract who could walk as a UFA after the season. I'd wager his value has gone up a tad since then… maybe add a 5th after his good start.

Pedan is worth a 3rd as that's where he was drafted…. that's what was just paid for him…. that's the minimum it would take to pry him off of us currently. He's a 3rd. Some small injuries and being caught in a numbers game hasn't altered that.This is really basic stuff unless you are the type of person whose evaluations turn on a dime. His play went up two years in a row after being drafted only to slip a little in the last few months. If you think he would have been available for a 4th round pick don't you think GMJB would have started there with Snow? I bet he did and they negotiated up to his current value. A 3rd round pick, but not a 2015, a 2016 instead assuming the NYI agree to take Mallet or another junk contract.

So when did Dorsett become worth you since he was a plug in July? I'm wondering what the over/under is for you, in weeks or months, to actually see what the player is about before changing your mind as to their trade value?

Benning will say good things about Pedan obviously, I just would like to see what he can do in a year. I don't think he'll do much, I think alot of CDC is high on the highlights of him. Not alot of NYI fans were excited about Pedan, alot of the talk about him was about his toughness and fighting.

Dorsett was worth a 3rd because of the great 4th line he was a part of in NYR, Boyle picked up alot of money in the off-season and NYR couldn't afford to re-sign him.

Pedan isn't worth a 3rd because of where he was drafting, that's probably the last reason he would get a 3rd rounder. That's like saying Grenier would get a 3rd, Mallet would get a 2nd? I don't think you know how many games Pedan has missed due to injuries, most 3rd rounders are either fails or are doing well, I think Pedan is going to the "doing well" side, more so on the fail side. He's still in the system, obviously has potential but I mean if you're bouncing around the AHL/ECHL you aren't looking too well. Some 3rd rounders in the same draft are either like: Trocheck, Lowry, Shore, Camara, Andreoff, Leivo. Or more like: Honzik, Fogarty, Ewanyk, Ruopp, Sefton.

Snow was going to push what he could get from Pedan and with the type of defencemen he has in his system, Pedan was redundant.

I think I might have been sarcastic with the Dorsett trade because I thought he was part of a great 4th line. Even if I wasn't, I was wrong. He's proved me wrong.

Here's the irony. Jim Benning used a 3rd to draft Tryamkin. And then he saw fit to use a 3rd (2016) to acquire a 21 year old taken 63rd overall in 2011 - a top 3 pick in that round. So if you like our drafting - that drafting is based upon assessing young talent - and in this case, Benning had the benefit of three additional years after being drafted to assess Pedan. He bought five years of development between 2011 and 2016 - so really I don't see point of the protest. You can't really separate Benning's drafting from his assessment of youth, clearly integral to either drafting or dealing for young players.

That doesn't make sense to me, he might have bought five years of development between 2011 and 2016 but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's not the same thing as drafting someone, I would have liked to keep the 3rd because I don't think Pedan is worth a 3rd rounder. Say if we got him for a 4th or 5th, I would have been pretty good with the trade but I like the way we've been drafting the last 2 drafts and I honestly don't see a need for Pedan, I'm confident in atleast 5-6 prospects to become future NHLers in Andersson, Corrado, McNally, Hutton, Tryamkin. I also like Forsling, Subban, Cederholm alot.

It's not as simple as we trade a 3rd in the future for a 3rd round pick now, because there is something called regression and progression.

I believe Pedan has regressed rather than progressed.

[Dazzle]

Benning will say good things about Pedan obviously, I just would like to see what he can do in a year. I don't think he'll do much, I think alot of CDC is high on the highlights of him. Not alot of NYI fans were excited about Pedan, alot of the talk about him was about his toughness and fighting.

Dorsett was worth a 3rd because of the great 4th line he was a part of in NYR, Boyle picked up alot of money in the off-season and NYR couldn't afford to re-sign him.

Pedan isn't worth a 3rd because of where he was drafting, that's probably the last reason he would get a 3rd rounder. That's like saying Grenier would get a 3rd, Mallet would get a 2nd? I don't think you know how many games Pedan has missed due to injuries, most 3rd rounders are either fails or are doing well, I think Pedan is going to the "doing well" side, more so on the fail side. He's still in the system, obviously has potential but I mean if you're bouncing around the AHL/ECHL you aren't looking too well. Some 3rd rounders in the same draft are either like: Trocheck, Lowry, Shore, Camara, Andreoff, Leivo. Or more like: Honzik, Fogarty, Ewanyk, Ruopp, Sefton.

Snow was going to push what he could get from Pedan and with the type of defencemen he has in his system, Pedan was redundant.

I think I might have been sarcastic with the Dorsett trade because I thought he was part of a great 4th line. Even if I wasn't, I was wrong. He's proved me wrong.

That doesn't make sense to me, he might have bought five years of development between 2011 and 2016 but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It's not the same thing as drafting someone, I would have liked to keep the 3rd because I don't think Pedan is worth a 3rd rounder. Say if we got him for a 4th or 5th, I would have been pretty good with the trade but I like the way we've been drafting the last 2 drafts and I honestly don't see a need for Pedan, I'm confident in atleast 5-6 prospects to become future NHLers in Andersson, Corrado, McNally, Hutton, Tryamkin. I also like Forsling, Subban, Cederholm alot.

It's not as simple as we trade a 3rd in the future for a 3rd round pick now, because there is something called regression and progression.

I believe Pedan has regressed rather than progressed.

After going through this entire thread and seeing your posts, I really think that you're questioning ignoring anything that remotely renders your argument points wrong.

I saw the post that you made in July that called Dorsett "a plug". I thought the same thing too. A 3rd round pick, I thought, was too high. I've faintly followed him during his days of CBJ. Thought he was a victim of the CBJ development rush of ALL their players. I was wrong too.

Just because someone is redundant doesn't necessarily make him a 'failed' product. Vey was redundant, technically. He got traded for a 2nd. Great trade in hindsight.

Think about it - you POTENTIALLY could get someone good sooner by trading a 2016 3rd round pick (not 2015!). He's already a few years developed, for better or for worse. For all the intangibles that he has, size, fighting ability, skating, skills, etc, it's a GREAT trade for a "plug" like Mallet (contract dump).

You're acting like 3rd round picks are sure-fires. Yes, Cassels was drafted in the 3rd round and so was Edler, if I'm not mistaken. But for all the successes that you can think of in the third round, there are many failures unfortunately. This applies for all rounds. The difference is that you can afford to take a gamble in the later rounds, but a wasted pick is still a wasted pick. You're hoping to score something at least.

The guy is partially developed, stuck on an NYI team with a lot of defensive depth. You talk about him being in the ECHL for two games, but ignore the contexts behind it. He was scratched for 10 games, for whatever reason. Who else was scratched for a similar amount of time? Sestito. Was it his fault that he was scratched? No. The first 9 games, we were basically on a roll.

Mallet wasn't ever going to make the NHL, at least not on the Canucks. + 2016 3rd round pick which would require years of development FOR semi-developed prospect with size and skill, but still unpolished.

What's there to argue about, Plum? This was a good example of "asset management". Not like Gillis' years of wheeling and dealing.

[CanuckleHorse]

I like that we have tough D-man in the system none of the other D-men are even close to being as tough as this dude also the game highlights against Albany Devils Nov 23 2014 shows that he moves well for big guy.

[Plum]

After going through this entire thread and seeing your posts, I really think that you're questioning ignoring anything that remotely renders your argument points wrong.

I saw the post that you made in July that called Dorsett "a plug". I thought the same thing too. A 3rd round pick, I thought, was too high. I've faintly followed him during his days of CBJ. Thought he was a victim of the CBJ development rush of ALL their players. I was wrong too.

Just because someone is redundant doesn't necessarily make him a 'failed' product. Vey was redundant, technically. He got traded for a 2nd. Great trade in hindsight.

Think about it - you POTENTIALLY could get someone good sooner by trading a 2016 3rd round pick (not 2015!). He's already a few years developed, for better or for worse. For all the intangibles that he has, size, fighting ability, skating, skills, etc, it's a GREAT trade for a "plug" like Mallet (contract dump).

You're acting like 3rd round picks are sure-fires. Yes, Cassels was drafted in the 3rd round and so was Edler, if I'm not mistaken. But for all the successes that you can think of in the third round, there are many failures unfortunately. This applies for all rounds. The difference is that you can afford to take a gamble in the later rounds, but a wasted pick is still a wasted pick. You're hoping to score something at least.

The guy is partially developed, stuck on an NYI team with a lot of defensive depth. You talk about him being in the ECHL for two games, but ignore the contexts behind it. He was scratched for 10 games, for whatever reason. Who else was scratched for a similar amount of time? Sestito. Was it his fault that he was scratched? No. The first 9 games, we were basically on a roll.

Mallet wasn't ever going to make the NHL, at least not on the Canucks. + 2016 3rd round pick which would require years of development FOR semi-developed prospect with size and skill, but still unpolished.

What's there to argue about, Plum? This was a good example of "asset management". Not like Gillis' years of wheeling and dealing.

Vey and Pedan aren't really the same thing. They are stuck behind better players but Vey was putting up good numbers and on the top line in the AHL. Pedan is struggling to play in the AHL and get ice-time in the AHL.

He isn't a fail for sure but I mean he should be making him mark soon and get atleast some games into the NHL, that's what I think and Snow wasn't confident in Pedan or the Bridgeport defence to play in the NHL, that's why he brought in Leddy and Boychuk. Along with needing to make the playoffs.

My argument is that we overpaid for Pedan, I don't think he is worth a 3rd round pick, especially because of the last 2 rounds. Obviously we have fails but in 2011 was a bad 3rd round, 2013 and 2014 look like good drafts for us overall and especially the 3rd rounds. They aren't sure fires but I'm confident in our drafting lately, it looks better than 2012 and before.

I know he's behind the depth but he played in the ECHL last season (a few games) and that was without Pulock, Pelech and Reinhart. I don't care we gave up Mallet but the 3rd round pick for a regression of a 3rd rounder is something I'm not a fan of and that's why I think it's not good asset management, especially because we got Dorsett for a 3rd rounder, a NHL player.

[Jägermeister]

Pedan has 15 points in 42 career AHL games. Pretty good for a guy who is supposed to be raw and primarily a shutdown guy.