JeremyCuddles Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 They have? We aren't the Leafs or Oilers, so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Kessel MAY be the Leafs best player. Therein lies the problem. He still isn't half the player he could be. One would say he's been 'halfed' a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duc_evo Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 They have? Torts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Same goes for the entire Leafs team. You can't just pin the tail solely on one player. Kessel is depended on, has a weak supporting cast, and therefore gets the blame when things aren't going well. He can only do so much + he's a winger, not even a centre who has most of the responsibility. And what do you mean may? He is their best player lol. 2nd is arguably Kadri. No, actually that isn't even remotely representative of their reality. The Leafs have their share of players who bring a professional effort to the rink consistently. Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik. Robidas, their goaltenders, a few of their young players - but what you will notice missing from that list is their core players - most notably Kessel - and Phaneuf. Yeah Rocket - when you're making 8 million and are considered a core player - even 'leadership' lol - you are expected to show up consistently, even make the odd appearance on your own side of the blueline - maybe even show the young guys what listening to your coach looks like... Or, god forbid, show up to camp in shape like a fn professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 albeit ineffective sarcasm without a point. Lol, I don't know why I'm dragging myself into this but for whatever reason I'll continue on...explain how Kessel isn't the Leafs best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 No, actually that isn't even remotely representative of their reality. The Leafs have their share of players who bring a professional effort to the rink consistently. Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik. Robidas, their goaltenders, a few of their young players - but what you will notice missing from that list is their core players - most notably Kessel - and Phaneuf. Yeah Rocket - when you're making 8 million and are considered a core player - even 'leadership' lol - you are expected to show up consistently, even make the odd appearance on your own side of the blueline - maybe even show the young guys what listening to your coach looks like... Or, god forbid, show up to camp in shape like a fn professional. You're 100% correct, never did I once disagree to this. However, this still doesn't explain why Phil isn't the Leafs best player according to what you said. Yea consistency and leadership is big, like I said I get it and I agree 100%. However, taking what you said, if player A is inconsistent and player B is consistent but doesn't have 100x the skill player A has, it doesn't make him the "best player". Ex: Dorsett has shown up to every game this year. The Sedins have not. Does that mean Dorsett is our "best player" because he brings more of a professional effort to the rink consistently than the twins? Absolutely not. Again, I agree with what you say but in no way does it prove why Kessel is not the "best player". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duc_evo Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 These guys had a chance to pick up Nick Ritchie, but chose Nylander. Need I say more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Lol, I don't know why I'm dragging myself into this but for whatever reason I'll continue on...explain how Kessel isn't the Leafs best player. I'm surprised you need that spelled out for you. And what you said to Kessel isn't half the player he could/should be was but, but that goes for the entire Leafs team - which is nonsense. And, "Lol" I notice you sidestepped answering the question yourself, in favour of loling and answering a question with a question. I suspect your 'answer' wasn't very good in that case. You know - some people refer at times to Chris Tanev as the Canucks best player - arguable/debatable of course, but at times it's sustainable - and the fact that Tanev is not this team's leading scorer does not reductively, alone, disqualify him, any more than Kessel's one dimensional wonder show qualifies him. Most sensible people have a greater concept of the whole/complete player. There are one or two regulars on the Leafs (Gardiner) who gets higher offensive zone starts than Phil Kessel. There are literally a dozen regulars with underlying numbers - and before some dimwit comes in and suggests that advanced statistics are meaningless - ask yourselves if the fact the Leafs are an absolutely horrible puck possession team has anything to do with being a horrible hockey team. The answer, to anyone familiar with winning hockey teams - like LA, Chicago et al - is that puck possession is not everything, it's only almost everything. Phil Kessel has enjoyed the most opportune minutes on the Leafs for years - but he's also -57 as a Leaf - a minus player every year in fact - and before folks try to propose that plus minus is meaningless - it's only meaningless when taken out of context. Ask yourselves how Mike Santarelli, with only 40% offensive zone starts on a horrible puck possession team like Toronto manages to be a +8 while facing, next to Dion Phaneuf, the strongest quality of competition on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Must be magic or something, right? Which leads to the question - what makes Kessel better than Phaneuf, when Phaneuf scores a half ppg from their blueline, handles as many hard minutes as anyone in Toronto, does things like actually get in front of the odd shot, throw the odd hit, and while he may not be the best two way defenseman in the NHL, or even on his own team, nevertheless is a far more complete player than the one dimensional liability that Kessel is. Phil Kessel - 44 giveaways already this year, (-19), 88 last year (-51), 45 in half a strike shortened season the year before (-20), 82 the year before that (-43).... do you see a trend there? One of the league most prolific producer of turnovers - and then once the puck is turned over, what exactly does Phil Kessel do? What he does is create that much more work for the Tyler Bozak, Mike Santorelli, Leo Komarov, Daniel Winnik types... Phil Kessel, the Leafs best player, with a -2.9 relative corsi (relative to his team-mates), when he's second to Gardiner in ozone starts. -10.92 corsi on. That doesn't spell 'team's best player' to me. It spells team's worst puck possession player - on a team with a serious puck possession problem. He's their best highlight reel player. 30% of his points are spoon fed to him on the power play. And then there are the character questions - about being coachable, about conditioning, about leadership. Kessel openly admits that he skates a couple times in the offseason - while owning a 64 million contract - and then the Leafs wonder why guys like Kadri have difficulty with their development, show up in poor condition and require tough love from their coaches where professionalism is concerned, are challenged to play a two way game, etc. Is it all Kessel's fault lol? Of course not. Is he the exception that can't carry his team all alone? LOL. That is comical - and a sentiment that often gets repeated by people who have no idea what they're talking about. Poor Phil can't do it all alone lol. He's just the most obvious and prolific example of a horribly managed hockey team that tolerates all of the above when they should have been tough loving a professional out of him for the past half decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 The Canucks are 45 years old. They have survived decades of ineptitude, and numerous seasons of awful hockey. I don't know where people are getting this idea that if the team is bad they'll start losing money. There's an attitude on this board that's extremely prevalent, that Vancouver fans are just "bad".They think there's some great schism in the quality of fanbases. It comes from this attitude only present in Vancouver that people like to tar this teams fanbase as awful, yet magically exclude themselves from the equation. "The Canucks have the worst fanbase on the face of the Earth(except me). Everyone here is an idiot (not me of course, I'm awesome)". The irony here is that they're the ones completely ignorant to anything outside the bubble of BC. They see some troll make an idiot post and automatically say "hurr Canucks fans are awful!". I say I can't afford to shell out 500 bucks to watch a game in the nosebleeds and "durr, just a bandwagoner". As if that crap doesn't happen everywhere else. The only difference between fanbases is the pull a team has in its respective region. The Leafs have a way bigger fanbase than the panthers. That does not mean a Leafs fan is any "better" than a Panthers fan. If Canucks fans are so bad, why are you still here? You're clearly a paragon of all things wonderful, so go join a good fanbase and leave us filthy unwashed masses back in the dirt. Anyway, that's my little rant for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Not interested in either of them. I think JVR would be a good pick up, he needs to get out of that cess pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I would love it if JB was calling Toronto about James Van Riemsdyk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 One would say he's been 'halfed' a few years ago. His offensive output may have been halved, but one look at him should tell you that he's been "doubled".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I would love it if JB was calling Toronto about James Van Riemsdyk! I don't put much stock in such things, but SNET has been running a board with Leafs players likelihood of being dealt on it (based on percentages) The usual suspects (Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul, Clarkson and Kessel) are all pretty high at about 50 - 70 percent. JVR was way down the list at 5%, meaning that the offer would have to be very good. Reilly was at 0%, meaning he's the only untouchable on the roster. I generally don't agree with these so-called experts, but in this case I think they're correct. Reilly won't be going anywhere and it's highly unlikely that JVR will either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 No, actually that isn't even remotely representative of their reality. The Leafs have their share of players who bring a professional effort to the rink consistently. Komarov, Santorelli, Winnik. Robidas, their goaltenders, a few of their young players - but what you will notice missing from that list is their core players - most notably Kessel - and Phaneuf. Yeah Rocket - when you're making 8 million and are considered a core player - even 'leadership' lol - you are expected to show up consistently, even make the odd appearance on your own side of the blueline - maybe even show the young guys what listening to your coach looks like... Or, god forbid, show up to camp in shape like a fn professional. Of all the potential "rentals" out there, Winnik is the one guy I wouldn't mind picking up. Especially if there's room for him going forward. He's kind of like a bigger, more skilled version of Dorsett. Just gives it his all every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Of all the potential "rentals" out there, Winnik is the one guy I wouldn't mind picking up. Especially if there's room for him going forward. He's kind of like a bigger, more skilled version of Dorsett. Just gives it his all every night. I agree. Robidas would be a decent rental as well, if he could be had cheap. Especially if Juice is gone longer than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 The Canucks are 45 years old. They have survived decades of ineptitude, and numerous seasons of awful hockey. I don't know where people are getting this idea that if the team is bad they'll start losing money. There's an attitude on this board that's extremely prevalent, that Vancouver fans are just "bad".They think there's some great schism in the quality of fanbases. It comes from this attitude only present in Vancouver that people like to tar this teams fanbase as awful, yet magically exclude themselves from the equation. "The Canucks have the worst fanbase on the face of the Earth(except me). Everyone here is an idiot (not me of course, I'm awesome)". The irony here is that they're the ones completely ignorant to anything outside the bubble of BC. They see some troll make an idiot post and automatically say "hurr Canucks fans are awful!". I say I can't afford to shell out 500 bucks to watch a game in the nosebleeds and "durr, just a bandwagoner". As if that crap doesn't happen everywhere else. The only difference between fanbases is the pull a team has in its respective region. The Leafs have a way bigger fanbase than the panthers. That does not mean a Leafs fan is any "better" than a Panthers fan. If Canucks fans are so bad, why are you still here? You're clearly a paragon of all things wonderful, so go join a good fanbase and leave us filthy unwashed masses back in the dirt. Anyway, that's my little rant for the day. I fully agree I have been watching the Canucks forabout 38 years when I was a very young kid.I have always cheered the canucks and follow weather we are doing good or bad.We have made it to the cup 3 times and threw that have had many bad years but always have players to cheer for including one of my favorite players tiger Williams,Lindens full career and so on.I liked that Naslund could score but as a leader and office player never liked him as he shyed away from interviews or kept things short so don't like that his number is retired at all.Saying that I still cheered for the canucks and will and I am not a bangwagon type of fan like some! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcrguy Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 it'll be hard for them to catch the sabres this year, and the release says it'll start this summer, so i guess they're content to let McDavid or Eichel go (unless they somehow win the lottery) i wonder who'll bite on kessel or phaneuf. both are top 10 in their positions in the league. I'd want a player a prospect and a 1st if I was TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 both are top 10 in their positions in the league. I'd want a player a prospect and a 1st if I was TO. VCR guy everybody! But, no, he's not actually a Leafs fan. He's really a Canuck fan. Nope, definitely not a troll. No sirree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Burke built a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm238 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Burke built a loser. They were heading in the right direction when he left - then Nonis went out and gave Kessel, Phaneuf, and Clarkson ridiculous contracts and hamstrung himself in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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