cuporbust Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sven has better overall skills/talent (hockey IQ, playmaking, etc), but in terms of handling the puck and shooting, I think Shinkaruk has the edge. My concern would be his mental toughness. In his interview he stated he start second-guessing himself when he has lower confidence levels. After looking at what happened with the flames, I have no doubt he has the skills, I do however doubt whether he has the mental capacity to be an NHL star. If you look at history and the ones that become busts, quite often it's the mental side of the game, not the absence of potential that does them in. I guess we'll have to see how he does in this environment here. Could just be a geographical issue, but obviously the mental weakness warning signs are there too. I am excited to see how this turns out though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I looked this up, and it's worse than you think. So, it looks like that year we took the following: Patrick White Taylor Ellington Charles-Antoine Messier Ilya Kabukov Taylor Matson Dan Gendur while passing up on these: David Perron TJ Brennan Eric Tangradi PK Subban TJ Galardi Wayne Simmonds Yannick Weber Robert Bortuzzo Nick Palmieri Justin Falk Jamie Benn Luke Gazdic Nick Bonino Bottom line is, our draft record is terrible, so I like the odds in this trade. On the same note, we have to draft better! The past couple of drafts have been pretty damn good. We're on our way to better drafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well what young player doesn't have confidence issues, or players in general. I would say that it's rare throughout the NHL to find players who do not have such problems - or at least there are many more who struggle with that issue than those that don't Sven will get better with it as he matures, and once he makes the Canucks, he'll have great mentors in the Sedins in learning to deal with the heavy expectations of this city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 The past couple of drafts have been pretty damn good. We're on our way to better drafting Exactly. Leave the past in the past. It's not pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 By your logic we should trade a 2nd for Scott Glennie, former 1st rounder... Sure SB has skill however he couldn't crack Calgarys roster and he is waiver eligible next season. That's the scary part. We went over this. That is your logic. You should stop putting words in other peoples' mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 We went over this. That is your logic. You should stop putting words in other peoples' mouths.Well when the argument is "it's a 2nd for a former1st" Kinda the same no? Do you realize how many on here called him a bust? It's funny... Anyway I find it funny that when a fan has a concern about an acquisition so many yes men just jump all over that person with out even knowing half the facts regarding the situation. This place is really funny sometimes, I remember when MG could do no wrong and us that questioned him were slammed by posters like you. Low and behold now MG is a loser and JB can do no wrong. Heaven forbid a fan have concerns and express themselves right? Blind homerism seems to be a better idea right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I looked this up, and it's worse than you think. So, it looks like that year we took the following: Patrick White Taylor Ellington Charles-Antoine Messier Ilya Kabukov Taylor Matson Dan Gendur while passing up on these: David Perron TJ Brennan Eric Tangradi PK Subban TJ Galardi Wayne Simmonds Yannick Weber Robert Bortuzzo Nick Palmieri Justin Falk Jamie Benn Luke Gazdic Nick Bonino Bottom line is, our draft record is terrible, so I like the odds in this trade. On the same note, we have to draft better! One of the low points of my Canuck fandom was the moment Nonis stepped up to the mic and announced "Patrick White". It seemed he was trying to stifle a smile as he expected everyone else to start yelling about what a ballsy pick it was going off the boards and such...instead there was just crickets and rustling papers as everyone tried to figure out who this kid even was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well when the argument is "it's a 2nd for a former1st" Kinda the same no? Do you realize how many on here called him a bust? It's funny... Anyway I find it funny that when a fan has a concern about an acquisition so many yes men just jump all over that person with out even knowing half the facts regarding the situation. This place is really funny sometimes, I remember when MG could do know wrong and us that questioned him were slammed by posters like you. Low and behold now MG is a loser and JB can do no wrong. Heaven forbid a fan have concerns and express themselves right? Blind homerism seems to be a better idea right? Listen. You're just repeating yourself and getting into rhetorical arguments which are pointless. You are not more correct for disliking their chosen words. In fact, by doing this you are even more guilty of adding nothing to the conversation as you're accusing of others. I still see people on here calling him a bust. Unless you an find evidence of a single user changing their tune exactly after this one trade, rather than the greyish blanket statements over the thousands of users here, that statement is just for the sake of putting others down to prop yourself up. The only one I see jumping on other posters here is you. What you are getting is backlash for getting in people's face, putting words in their mouth, and generally being an antagonistic argue starter. You are not exhibiting a greater level of dialectic than others here, despite your own opinion. So....you have a concern. You haven't articulated it well because all you are doing is putting yourself up as a devil's advocate against other posters who are happy. Excuse me.... is that a personal statement about me as a poster? I thought MG was a good GM on the whole. I've never deviated from that. Just like I've never deviated that Lou is the best goalie in franchise history. You don't know half as much as you think you do. You see that you're the only one that is expressing concerns? And anyone who disagrees with your approach is a blind homer? That's an idiotic statement. It's patently incorrect. I believe I was the first one in this thread to raise the issue of his waiver status and that it was a concern. I mentioned it twice. But...you know what...I still think this is an excellent trade and worth the gamble despite that factor. If you don't, fine. You've said your piece. Let it go. You've added nothing original to your opinion or argument in the last 5 pages. Now you're just being a jerk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 while passing up on these: TJ Brennan Eric Tangradi TJ Galardi Yannick Weber Robert Bortuzzo Luke Gazdic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elchupacabra Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 With the depth of the club, I could see a few players being flipped for picks. IE; Burrows, Higgins, Markstrom or Lack. They need to make for some of the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Listen. You're just repeating yourself and getting into rhetorical arguments which are pointless. You are not more correct for disliking their chosen words. In fact, by doing this you are even more guilty of adding nothing to the conversation as you're accusing of others. I still see people on here calling him a bust. Unless you an find evidence of a single user changing their tune exactly after this one trade, rather than the greyish blanket statements over the thousands of users here, that statement is just for the sake of putting others down to prop yourself up. The only one I see jumping on other posters here is you. What you are getting is backlash for getting in people's face, putting words in their mouth, and generally being an antagonistic argue starter. You are not exhibiting a greater level of dialectic than others here, despite your own opinion. So....you have a concern. You haven't articulated it well because all you are doing is putting yourself up as a devil's advocate against other posters who are happy. Excuse me.... is that a personal statement about me as a poster? I thought MG was a good GM on the whole. I've never deviated from that. Just like I've never deviated that Lou is the best goalie in franchise history. You don't know half as much as you think you do. You see that you're the only one that is expressing concerns? And anyone who disagrees with your approach is a blind homer? That's an idiotic statement. It's patently incorrect. I believe I was the first one in this thread to raise the issue of his waiver status and that it was a concern. I mentioned it twice. But...you know what...I still think this is an excellent trade and worth the gamble despite that factor. If you don't, fine. You've said your piece. Let it go. You've added nothing original to your opinion or argument in the last 5 pages. Now you're just being a jerk about it. When you claim Pedan will be a regular next year please don't talk about hockey knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 When you claim Pedan will be a regular next year please don't talk about hockey knowledge. Source? What I've said is that I think he's close to NHL ready. I think he'll get the call next year. I've never said he would be a regular. That's putting words in other people's mouths again. What you seem to excel at. My hockey knowledge is just fine, thank you. FWIW... I think Baertschi WILL be a regular next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I like this move a lot. The worst case scenario is that Baertschi is already a reclamation project, but it's more likely that he just needs a change of scenery from the hormonal hockey mentality in Calgary. But the point is, this is the kind of risk we have to take, whether it pans out or not in this case. We are missing pure skill in our pipeline, and have to get creative about acquiring it. This is the most cost-effective way of addressing that problem, even if we have to try a couple of times before succeeding. Those who say that we're already carrying Very and Clendinning on a similar basis are right. We can't send these players down without exposing them to waivers, and can only keep them by developing them on the big club. That's the cost of doing business this way. But here's the other side of the argument: we have to shed bodies and salary anyway next year. By my estimate, 1-2 F won't be re-signed or will be traded, 1-2 D moved, and 1 goalie. The precise number will be affected by who we ship out: if it's big salary guys like Miller, Burrows or Bieksa, the number will go down, but only slightly. This means we need replacement level guys around to take the place of guys like Richardson, potentially Dorsett, etc. I'd rather they be guys like Baertschi, Vey and Clendinning who could turn into something than players who will never be more than replacement level. Benning is taking the only strategy that can really compensate for the demographic hole in our pipeline. It won't work in every case but it doesn't have to to be successful. We have a really solid crop of prospects coming up from our last 2 drafts so we can take a few chances to create a bridge between them and the over-30 crowd that forms the nucleus on the big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senpai Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 When you claim Pedan will be a regular next year please don't talk about hockey knowledge. Pedan will 100% get time with the Canucks next season.. Benning literally said in his interview he thinks Pedan will be a regular NHLer a few years down the road. Pedan will be our #1/2 LD call-up next year probably, and considering how many injuries we ALWAYS have on defense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Source? What I've said is that I think he's close to NHL ready. I think he'll get the call next year. I've never said he would be a regular. That's putting words in other people's mouths again. What you seem to excel at. My hockey knowledge is just fine, thank you. FWIW... I think Baertschi WILL be a regular next year. Yup in your own opinion. Which you have that right. Anyhow cheers I'm not getting into your normal derailing of threads. Again my opinion has never changed, I'm not sure I like this deal but I by no means hate it. If SB can get his game were it needs to be we may have picked up a talented top 6 winger if not we may lose him to waivers and thus threw away a 2nd rounder. I'm hoping for the best. But like I said the sun is out so I'm done debating with you. Take care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 good, take your relentless butthurt whining with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Pedan will 100% get time with the Canucks next season.. Benning literally said in his interview he thinks Pedan will be a regular NHLer a few years down the road. Pedan will be our #1/2 LD call-up next year probably, and considering how many injuries we ALWAYS have on defense... I think so too. There is going to be a thinning of the herd between 6-10 on our defensive depth-chart, which will move Pedan up the pecking-order. His acquisition and development have been one of Benning's biggest coups since taking over, a textbook example of the strategy he's used to move picks for underrated prospects closer to being ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 With the depth of the club, I could see a few players being flipped for picks. IE; Burrows, Higgins, Markstrom or Lack. They need to make for some of the kids. It's pretty much an imperative now that we move out some of the old guard this offseason. JB has set up the organization that way. There will be a continued influx of young players into the line-up next year as the changeover happens. We will retain certain key vets, give the current young guys added responsibility and roles, and we will insert more of the youth into the roster if they have good camps. It will be interesting to see how he handles it if the waiver ineligible youth do not look good in the fall and whether he's willing to allow some to go if they aren't up to snuff. My guess is though that he's willing to have some short term pain for long term gain. I do believe this is the final year of him giving 'the core' as we see it now another chance without big changes. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see big deals happen between now and September to open up flexibility on the roster and with cap space. Even with getting our own FA under contract I could imagine we are still in on a single big FA signing from outside the organization once we move 2-3 of the vets who have been here a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Yup in your own opinion. Which you have that right. Anyhow cheers I'm not getting into your normal derailing of threads. Again my opinion has never changed, I'm not sure I like this deal but I by no means hate it. If SB can get his game were it needs to be we may have picked up a talented top 6 winger if not we may lose him to waivers and thus threw away a 2nd rounder. I'm hoping for the best. But like I said the sun is out so I'm done debating with you. Take care... That's my opinion. Would you like to back up your statement with a quote of mine or will you recuse your remark and admit you were wrong in saying so? The derailing is on you when you bring up a topic. You aren't 'debating with me'...you're debating with getting shown your posts are inaccurate. You're debating with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 I have to admit I didn't and still don't know much about Sven, but the video's posted here are getting me excited. On the surface we're getting a kid on the cusp of being a top 6 NHL'er with the instinct and ability to be a star player. A potential difference maker.But the path to the NHL is littered with players who had all the skill in the world but who fell short of expectation because they lacked that little extra something...call it drive...will...determination to work to be the best. The great players all have it. The best example of this that I can think of is Robbie Schremp. The kid had all-world talent, but for whatever reason, couldn't put it all together. It got so bad that the Oilers lost him on Waivers. The Isles got a bit of a glimpse of his talent level, but he ultimately failed there as well. That being said, cases like Schremp's are rare. More common are the ones like Michael Grabner, who bounce around a bit, before figuring it out. Hopefully, Sven needs just one bounce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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