[discussion] Who actually believes a 're-tool' works when the key core players are 35 years old?

[RUPERTKBD]

29 wins in 45 starts 6 shutouts and .911sv% with a 2.53 GAA with our brutal d and people cant see Miller is still a good goalie. His injury really threw the team for a loop and Eddie came in and was super solid.

The playoffs were a fiasco. Ferland allowed to head hunt without consequence and the D basically crapping the bed trainspotting style really exposed our 2 main weaknesses. Toughness and defense. Milsy had a long break and did have a bad game but as you well know the playoffs are another beast entirely.

You think that .911 is a good Sv%? I'd say it (and Miller's GAA) are pretty average.

The point is, I'm not even saying he's not a good goalie. I'm saying he's not demonstratively better than the guy making a third of his salary.

I said it at the time of his signing. It was a mistake. We should have signed a veteran backup who could play 25-30 games and let Eddie run with it. Now we are forced to move Lack because Miller is basically untradeable.

[aGENT]

The point is, I'm not even saying he's not a good goalie. I'm saying he's not demonstratively better than the guy making a third of his salary.

* 1/5

[BanTSN]

For those looking for teams that know when it's over and start a bit more of a real rebuild, you can start with Benning's old team today, the Boston Bruins.

Do you think they're going to sign some over-the-hill free agents to complement an over-the-hill Chara?

[CanadianRugby]

For those looking for teams that know when it's over and start a bit more of a real rebuild, you can start with Benning's old team today, the Boston Bruins.

Do you think they're going to sign some over-the-hill free agents to complement an over-the-hill Chara?

I half agree. I like the Lucic trade for them but Dougie H is 22, 6'5 and had 40something points last year.

[Jack Fig]

You think that .911 is a good Sv%? I'd say it (and Miller's GAA) are pretty average.

The point is, I'm not even saying he's not a good goalie. I'm saying he's not demonstratively better than the guy making a third of his salary.

I said it at the time of his signing. It was a mistake. We should have signed a veteran backup who could play 25-30 games and let Eddie run with it. Now we are forced to move Lack because Miller is basically untradeable.

Good post. Most people are oblivious to the term 'value'.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

You think that .911 is a good Sv%? I'd say it (and Miller's GAA) are pretty average.

The point is, I'm not even saying he's not a good goalie. I'm saying he's not demonstratively better than the guy making a third of his salary.

I said it at the time of his signing. It was a mistake. We should have signed a veteran backup who could play 25-30 games and let Eddie run with it. Now we are forced to move Lack because Miller is basically untradeable.

I can appreciate that, I was also anti miller before he came but as I saw his professionalism and how he and Eddie truly have bonded over the season it looks as if Eddie may have learned more this year than all the previous combined.

[awalk]

For those looking for teams that know when it's over and start a bit more of a real rebuild, you can start with Benning's old team today, the Boston Bruins.

Do you think they're going to sign some over-the-hill free agents to complement an over-the-hill Chara?

Bruins made horrible deals today, they are a mess.

[Rocksterh8]

Your first sentence makes me take you less seriously.. Before we were just two guys debating. What's with the straw man? When did I ever say making the playoffs for 1 year means you have a winning culture? How about making playoffs the last 10 out of 11 seasons. Lol, we made playoffs 10 years in a row, fell off one year, and bounced right back. That is the definition of a winning culture. It doesn't matter what happens, next year they bounce back 100%. That's the culture you want. What more can you ask for. The Kings missed the playoffs this year, next year, they are going to bounce back hungry for a spot. That's the winning culture you want. That's Detroits culture, they have just been so successful they haven't gotten bounced yet. But they have first round exits left and right. You make it to the playoffs, and you take it from there.

How is retooling to win a waste of time. Yeah they're declining, but they're still massively productive. Ok so we don't have the back to back scoring champions that we once had. Instead we have 70 point scorers who one again, finished top 10 in the league. How is that a waste of time? And when you say time? What are you talking about? Were going into next season trying to make the playoffs just like everyone else whether we got the 70 point scorers or not… Might as well take em...

Again, dude stop strawmaning. This whole 16 to 2 thing really means nothing. Benning and Linden just got here. They're trying to develop their culture and provide youth. They added 2 prospects in a year. Next year they may add 2 more. And the year after that, who knows. Eventually you get the the Detroit model but it takes time. You don't insert 16 prospects and call it a day. No, you gradually insert them 1 or 2 at a time until they become the new core. Stop strawmaning dude. If you can't respond to what I said don't just pretend like I'm saying something else so you can refute it.

Vrbata and Miller were playoff no shows… Vrbata had 4 points in 6 games and Miller was injured. The dude just got back and was put in the toughest situation. Down in the series.

But again, I ask you. This team has been preaching getting younger. I've explained to you 3 times now exactly how they are doing that. We just added 2 rookies into the starting lineup in one year. Next year, Bo and Kenins will get a bigger role. Simultaniously, someone like Baertschi, or Virtanen may crack the roster. I'm not even counting Vey and Clendening who are 22 and on the cusp as well in that they are playing depth roles now. OVER TIME you develop your new core of young guys. We have an incredible prospect pool right now. The best we have ever seen. And you're somehow insinuating that we aren't committing to youth. What do you think Benning got these prospects for? He's just waiting for them to develop. You can't throw in prospects that aren't ready for the big dance for 2 reasons. One, you'll lose a lot. If you're fine with Tanking then that's the way for you, but last I checked, Trevor Linden, Jim Benning, and WIllie D all really seem to like it here. I don't think they have any desired to be unemployed. I think they would rather have exciting hockey in this city, make a possible run just like the other 16 teams good enough to make playoffs. And two, you're going to hurt the player. The NHL is a whole different beast from every other Hockey leave out there. If guys aren't ready, they can easily get injured.

Lastly, Detroit does not just shove prospects in. They wait and wait and wait until they are absolutely sure they can not only play on an NHL team, but make an impact. Before I spoke of Gustav Nyquist, but you can see it directly right now with Anthony Mantha. CHL player of the year, scoring 120 points in 57 games. (averaged a goal per game as well.) And what did they do. No they didn't just put him in the lineup because he wasn't ready. Spots are not given, they are EARNED. Anthony Mantha is as skilled of a prospect as they come, but he didn't earn a spot on the Roster so they sent him back down. That's exactly what we are doing. Letting our prospects develop fully before pushing them into the big dance.

And no we aren't going to win the cup with old men. But 70 point scorers, no matter what their age certainly do help the cause. I don't care if they're 50 years old. If you can finish top 10 in the league for scoring, I want you on my team. The world isn't that black and white. It's not either we build around the Sedins and we don't win or not. It's a mix. It's a team. Yeah, get some young legs in there. Again, like Bo, Kenins, Vey, and Clendening this season, but the fact that we can have young guys not the team does not mean anything for the Sedins. You're making it seem like it's either the Sedins or it's youth. You can do both. You can fit a couple young guys with a couple veterans on a roster.

Young guys currently on the roster. (25 and younger)

Zack Kassian 24

Ronalds Kenins 24

Linden Vey 23

Bo Horvat 20

Guys that will be pushing for roster spots within the next 2 years

Adam Clendening 22

Frank Corrado 22

Ben Hutton 22

Brendan Gaunce 21

Hunter Shinkaruk 20

Cole Cassels 20

Jared McCann 19

Jake Virtanen 19

That's 8 guys who can make serious roster pushed in the next 2 years or so. That's some quality youth. Trust me, they will get their chance. They just need to earn it first. That's all

Seriously, match this up with what Edmonton and Calgary will have in 2 years. Not even close...

[SaintPatrick33]

Seriously, match this up with what Edmonton and Calgary will have in 2 years. Not even close...

Edmonton and Calgary have also been horrible for the past 8 years, we have been horrible for one year and still have had success bringing in some really good prospects.

[JamesB]

You think that .911 is a good Sv%? I'd say it (and Miller's GAA) are pretty average.

The point is, I'm not even saying he's not a good goalie. I'm saying he's not demonstratively better than the guy making a third of his salary.

I said it at the time of his signing. It was a mistake. We should have signed a veteran backup who could play 25-30 games and let Eddie run with it. Now we are forced to move Lack because Miller is basically untradeable.

Good post. Actually .911 is not even average. Miller was 32nd in the NHL among qualified goalies last year. That is significantly below average.

Benning seems to be getting cold feet about trading Lack. After today's moves he might be thinking he should hang on the best goalie the Canucks have (Lack) to avoid getting embarrassed next year.

I think that is a mistake as the embarrassment will just come the following year instead assuming the Canucks cannot afford to re-sign Lack, having overpaid for Miller, Sbisa, and Dorsett.

[BanTSN]

Bruins made horrible deals today, they are a mess.

Compared to us, they are in God-Mode.

[Hockey Fever]

Not me

[alt kilgore]

Aquilini

(The one that cashes the playoff gate, even if only one round)

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

this deserves a bump, and the answer to this threads question is happening rite now.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

On 30/05/2015, 13:57:23, Gstank29 said:

I said this in the other thread. Horvat and Virtanen COULD be like Getzlaf and Perry in that they replace the Old Core. The "rebuild" would be in there mid/early twenties (approx 3-4 years from now) which was about the same age Perry and Getzlaf were at the time Anaheim didn't do well. It's all about how you draft with you're first picks and find "gems" in the later rounds

 

Also Anahiem didn't have 6 first rounders in 4 years to work with so there's also that.

 haven't seen anything in Virtanen's game to even compare him to Perry. He looks like a poor mans raffi torres out there. 

[Mathew Barzal]

Re-tool is just code for rebuild. Nothing to get confused about.

[Gstank29]

3 minutes ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

 haven't seen anything in Virtanen's game to even compare him to Perry. He looks like a poor mans raffi torres out there. 

It's bolded and in Caplocks i'm not sure how you could have missed the COULD

 

[Gstank29]

But why not judge Virtanen on his first 20 games or so. Perry was also 20 (not 19, even for a 19 year old Jake is a "Young 19") when he first broke into the league and averaged under .5 PPG

[Crabcakes]

On ‎20‎/‎06‎/‎2015‎ ‎8‎:‎38‎:‎16‎, Crabcakes said:

I read on CDC someone claiming to have inside knowledge that Hammer didn't expect to be back next year. Myself, I can't see Benning asking him to waive. He is a solid No. 3 and there is nobody in the system who might replace him so there would have to be a No. 3 coming back if he left. The Canucks need help on the back end and replacing a top 3 who they already have would be costly.

 

If a big salary on D is moving, it is Bieksa. He is replaceable from within the system. The rumour that he wants a contract extension before he would agree to a trade makes sense. He won't be helping Benning with this draft but he will help with the cap situation and maybe next years draft. Dreggers assertion that Bieksa is a No. 2 who can help on the pp and pk and is still in his prime years is very helpful to the cause but to those of us who know, is clearly an opinion that is out of date. Benning should make it happen.

How prophetic .  Now there is Hutton.  Can he fill Hammers shoes?  They would still need a number 4 so I guess I was wrong about Bieksa being replaceable from within the system but Bieksa isn't Bieksa any more either.

But seriously, the threads question is all about semantics.  Who cares if you call it a re-tool or a rebuild.  It is what it is.

[The Lock]

Yaaaay, these forums are going to drive me crazy!

Again!