Canadians urged to confront ugly truth of residential schools

[-SN-]

This. Every other culture is destroyed when an invading culture attacks. However the english spared the french and native people and ever sense their compassion has been a tool for the other parties to bitch and demand more.

The word compassion does not belong in that sentence. Your time may be better spent reading history books than displaying your ignorance here.

[John Tortorella]

Well said but I thought the "Great White North" was because Americans thought Canadians lived in igloos as it was always winter up here eh?

Here's an article from Macleans about our racism problem:

The racial mess in the United States looks pretty grim and is painful to watch. We can be forgiven for being quietly thankful for Canadas more inclusive society, which has avoided dramas like that in Ferguson, Mo. We are not the only ones to think this. In the recently released Social Progress Index, Canada is ranked second amongst all nations for its tolerance and inclusion.

Unfortunately, the truth is we have a far worse race problem than the United States. We just cant see it very easily.

Terry Glavin, recently writing in the Ottawa Citizen, mocked the idea that the United States could learn from Canadas example when it comes to racial harmony. To illustrate his point, he compared the conditions of the African-American community to Canadas First Nations. If you judge a society by how it treats its most disadvantaged, Glavin found us wanting. Consider the accompanying table. By almost every measurable indicator, the Aboriginal population in Canada is treated worse and lives with more hardship than the African-American population. All these facts tell us one thing: Canada has a race problem, too.

How are we not choking on these numbers? For a country so self-satisfied with its image of progressive tolerance, how is this not a national crisis? Why are governments not falling on this issue?

More here:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/out-of-sight-out-of-mind-2/

This is garbage

We treat them different because they demand different treatment.

African americans: pay taxes, pay for living expenses pay for everything the same as a white american, pay rent/morgage

Natives: no tax on reserves, education grants that are specific to them, dont have to pay for a house, dont pay at all close to cover their share of health care, rest is covered by 'other' canadians

Saying they are treated different is true but its because they want to be treated different.

I would imagine most hostility towards natives actually stems from their now prefered treatment. The problem is when your handed things you no longer must work to improve.

I say gift them the land but then make them equal canadians, pay taxes and the such. And if they sell their land like any of us sell our land, ITS NO LONGER THEIR LAND.

[Cerridwen]

This is garbage

We treat them different because they demand different treatment.

African americans: pay taxes, pay for living expenses pay for everything the same as a white american, pay rent/morgage

Natives: no tax on reserves, education grants that are specific to them, dont have to pay for a house, dont pay at all close to cover their share of health care, rest is covered by 'other' canadians

Saying they are treated different is true but its because they want to be treated different.

I would imagine most hostility towards natives actually stems from their now prefered treatment. The problem is when your handed things you no longer must work to improve.

I say gift them the land but then make them equal canadians, pay taxes and the such. And if they sell their land like any of us sell our land, ITS NO LONGER THEIR LAND.

Wow.... just wow. Stealth said best what needs to be said "Your time may be better spent reading history books than displaying your ignorance here."

I would imagine most hostility towards natives actually stems from their now prefered treatment.

It's very easy to see where yours comes from. A little misguided self-reflection, perhaps?

[drummer4now]

As it appears after you wrote this comment nobody should give a flying fudge about armenia

Nobody gives a frack anyway..

One thing I have noticed is each culture, group, minority, etc.. that has been marginalized throughout history all now have somewhat of a superiority complex.. They all say we were more harshly treated..

This is bad because if each group worked together instead of comparing atrocities maybe we would see some real justice in this world, and progress to prevent future genocides.

[-DLC-]

I think there's something to be said in "moving forward" and that should be the ultimate goal. However, in order for some to be able to do so they have to go through a process that involves anger, grieving, etc. This is part of that, in allowing for and supporting them in that. It's important to acknowledge in order to validate their feelings...which are very real and painful. If we deny them the right TO feel them, it simply delays the healing process and is a stumbling block.

So the ground stage is to actually listen and acknowledge. To allow them that and then to work WITH them in overcoming the pain. But the constant wall of stereotype only impedes that progress. A meeting in the middle has to happen and, in order to facilitate it, everyone needs to knock down those walls/barriers. Until that happens, there is no moving on and it's more a matter of being stuck in the sand.

Whenever there's been psychological and physical abuse (and terror), it's a lingering thing that weaves its way into everyday living. It doesn't end with the action, it festers and grows into resentment and, quite possibly, trauma. So it's about being able to let go of that by way of having people support and understand vs question, challenge, accuse and berate. In paving the way in that, it's a step in the right direction.

[Jester13]

This is garbage

We treat them different because they demand different treatment.

African americans: pay taxes, pay for living expenses pay for everything the same as a white american, pay rent/morgage

Natives: no tax on reserves, education grants that are specific to them, dont have to pay for a house, dont pay at all close to cover their share of health care, rest is covered by 'other' canadians

Saying they are treated different is true but its because they want to be treated different.

I would imagine most hostility towards natives actually stems from their now prefered treatment. The problem is when your handed things you no longer must work to improve.

I say gift them the land but then make them equal canadians, pay taxes and the such. And if they sell their land like any of us sell our land, ITS NO LONGER THEIR LAND.

They want to be treated like different peoples because they were here for thousands of years before us. We took their land, their culture, their family members, their everything. And now it sounds like what you want is to take even more through all-out assimilation. Most Indigenous peoples do not want to be Canadian and instead want to remain who they truly are: Indigenous.

See, most Canadians believe the treaties that were signed decades ago meant that they sold their land to the Canadian government forever, but if said Canadians took the time to learn more about Indigenous-Canadian history and relations, they would learn how treaties were meant to share the land "to the depth of the plough", for example.

They would also learn the different way that Indigenous peoples in Canada see the world, which is very different than our Euro-Western POV.

This is exactly why we need to teach the true history of how our country came to be, because as it stands right now many Canadians lack empathy towards a vast range of rich culture from Indigenous peoples from coast to coast to coast.

And to your point that I bolded: let me just mention the education grants at the University of Victoria that are available to Indigenous students that are dependant on the students' ability to receive exceptional grades in high school courses in the sciences and English. If you think that money is just thrown around for free and they don't have to work to receive any of it, you are grossly mistaken.

[Canada Hockey Place]

It's such a shame.

Colonialism is unacceptable today. Yet most of us have been brainwashed into celebrating it. There is nothing more dangerous than collective ignorance.

Imagine if the First Nation people were like some of the people in today's society......

[Heretic]

It's such a shame.

Colonialism is unacceptable today. Yet most of us have been brainwashed into celebrating it. There is nothing more dangerous than collective ignorance.

Imagine if the First Nation people were like some of the people in today's society......

What's even more interesting (I'm guilty) is that we expect new immigrants to adapt to our way of living...

[drummer4now]

It's such a shame.

Colonialism is unacceptable today. Yet most of us have been brainwashed into celebrating it. There is nothing more dangerous than collective ignorance.

Imagine if the First Nation people were like some of the people in today's society......

This..

Colonialism and Imperialism is still pretty prominent in the world, but unlike before it's not in your face so to speak.

It has just morphed into different forms..

[Chalky]

FYI, white supremacy means much more than just skin heads and white-sheet wearing monsters, so I hope you didn't take what I said and connote those images into your response. If you didn't then I instantly apologize; however, if you didn't take my post as such then maybe you could explain further?

To give you an example, though, a moderator--who I will not mention directly--once noted in a thread on the increased use of Chinese signs in Richmond how they were really upset how their neighbourhood in Richmond is not the same as it once was years ago now that people from across the world are finding new homes in our beloved country. The hidden racism behind that person's comment was not visible to them, but to me it very much was. This is a small example of what I mean when I say that Canada is a white supremacist country.

Edit: FTR, this paragraph above is not to say that the person who made the comment is a bad person, just that they are unaware of their hidden preconceived notions of what Canada 'should' be like. It's just an example of why we need more education in Canada on such subjects.

And for the record, I studied political science in university with a focus on issues in politics, such as courses on the topic of racism and politics as well as Indigenous politics, so trust me when I say that there is lots of literature on this subject. This is not just me talking out my arse.

Ever heard the phrase "Great White North"? It's not merely meant to depict our winter season.

This is a topic that I am also passionate about. The difference is, I guess, is that I am able and willing to have a rational debate about it because Canadians need to wake up and admit that we are a racist country that needs to start correcting the wrongs that we are all guilty of. And before someone starts using the excuse that "I wasn't directly a part of the residential schools" blah blah blah, we are ALL guilty by association and inaction.

My comment is not divisive; it's the responses by those who deny the reality of our country that are.

Just so you know, I'm not judging you. When it comes to the term White Supremacist, it's a battle semantics. If you follow the etymology of the term, it wasn't a stretch to think you meant the contemporary meaning. I agree there is still a large component of racism in Canada, and like you mentioned, many of us are not aware of our intolerance. It is very much important to acknowledge that it is not a "white" thing. Racism is prevalent in most cultures within our multicultural country, and it shouldn't be acceptable for any group within it. Yes, the generalization of "White" is the dominant culture and makes up the bulk of the commentary. My family is mixed Anglo and First Nations. I have little to no FN "blood" but I have seen, heard and felt the pain of the intolerance from Uncles, cousins and friends. From the 50's on forward my family has experienced some terrible events.

Not one person in my family huffs glue, we don't live on reserves (those who qualify anyways), we work, pay taxes and don't wish any ill will on any culture. Generalizing is so easy. Do all Indo Canadians hate all Filipinos? No.

I totally get what you are saying now and I don't dispute there is an unacceptable level of intolerance. I also studied political science and economics for my degree and am very aware of the history of Canada. In my opinion "White Supremacist" is not the most accurate term.

[grandmaster]

There are far more issues that need to be dealt with other than continuing a never ending barrage of apologies and declarations.

The Canadian Aboriginals have had their atrocities well documented, acknowledged and their peoples provided with some rights and exemptions that other Canadians to not have. This is more than most nations would even consider and I've brought that up in earlier posts.

The Aboriginals here suffered great atrocities but so have many other people, including the ones in the U.S. where theirs were in more epic proportions.

Moving on doesn't mean you that you forget about things, it just means that you have to accept what happened and continue living.

It's time to stop all of this and focus on present and future success rather than continuing to go back. Time to focus on issues that plaque them today and build a better tomorrow.

[hsedin33]

As usual a real issue is hijacked by a few selfish, ignorant pricks. Mods need to be in here booting these people out.

[-DLC-]

Mods are in here and people have a right to voice opinions as long as it's done within the rules...if we've missed something (and you see it) please use the report button and we'll immediately attend to it.

[IamHomer]

As usual a real issue is hijacked by a few selfish, ignorant pricks. Mods need to be in here booting these people out.

LOL, youre cool. if everyone had the same opinion wtf is the point of a forum?

[John Tortorella]

Okay i see where some are coming from how they just want to be left alone, if we stop trying any sort of assimilation and just give each reserve its own almost 'country' like status and then revolked health care, electricity and many other features of being Canadian, would that be a fair solution? Because as it sounds it just feels like im being told to accept paying more taxes for the same access to health care ect. That doesnt sound right. Thats like asking the chinese who bring their money to vancouver as a risk shelter and dont even live here to help the canadian citizens afford to pay to live here. Doesn't sound that equal to me.

[Tortorella's Rant]

As usual a real issue is hijacked by a few selfish, ignorant pricks. Mods need to be in here booting these people out.

Being a selfish or ignorant ass is not a bannable offense.

[nucklehead]

A day after they were left out of the report on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, Indian Residential School day scholars have much to celebrate today. A lawsuit prepared by the Tk'emlups and Sechelt Indian Bands on behalf of day scholars has been certified class action by a federal court judge.

The bands are suing the federal government because those who didn't live at residential schools, but still attended, were left out of the 2008 formal apology and common experience payment. The government must now decide whether it will negotiate, or have the suit heard in court. The Tk'emlups band believes today's certification is a major step in the journey toward reconciliation.

http://cfjctv.com/story.php?id=23509

[Tambellini's Wrist Shot]

Does John Furlong get a free pass for all the horrible things he did to FN at the residential school in burns lake? He was instrumental in bringing the Olympics to Vancouver so for most lower mainland folk, that's worth looking past what he did to the Babine Nation. F'n creep.

All of the allegations made against him were false accusations. Do some research before you slander an innocent man, jack*ss.

[Mustapha]

True genocide? Wow...

"Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history.""

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302

This information is correct, but presented in a disingenuous manner.

It leads the reader to believe that Europeans slaughtered tens of millions of the native population, when in fact the majority of the deaths were caused by disease that was introduced by the Europeans simply by making contact. Considering Europeans did not know about micro-organisms at the time, these factors were beyond their prediction or control. Estimates show between 80 to 90% of the population was killed off by natural factors.

Here's one of many possible sources: http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/325

While it is tragic, it is not comparable to voluntary pre-meditated human genocide such as the Holocaust.

[Jester13]

This information is correct, but presented in a disingenuous manner.

It leads the reader to believe that Europeans slaughtered tens of millions of the native population, when in fact the majority of the deaths were caused by disease that was introduced by the Europeans simply by making contact. Considering Europeans did not know about micro-organisms at the time, these factors were beyond their prediction or control. Estimates show between 80 to 90% of the population was killed off by natural factors.

Here's one of many possible sources: http://nativeamericannetroots.net/diary/325

While it is tragic, it is not comparable to voluntary pre-meditated human genocide such as the Holocaust.

I would disagree with you on this one, as there are lots of academics and historians who believe that Europeans did, in fact, know they were giving Indigenous peoples diseases--a past form of biological warfare.